When we want managers to provide a swift improvement in performance: "Chelsea fans always pressure their managers. Such an unstable club can never be successful. Small club mentality."
When we want to give managers time to build out the team: "Chelsea fans lack aspiration. They are giving so much slack to the current manager. Small club mentality."
Guess, there's no winning
I don't want to make a big debate about this since it is the internet and we all know we won't be changing our mind but I wanted to defend my comments a little bit here. First, I was making a joking comment about Chelsea fans not being satisfied. After all the money spent and you are still wishing for another CB and another GK. That's fine, comment was a joke.
But then El_Nino wanted to get all high and mighty with the club having great ambition and taking a shot at Spurs. Again, it's a rival so that is fine. But you can't say you have great ambition but then be fine with a distance 3rd place finish after spending 300m in a summer. Those statements contradict themselves.
I am one of the first to say let a manager have time. I would have said Lampard has another year before pressure is added but then spending 300m speeds up the "project" and adds pressure. Chelsea fans will give Lampard more time because he's a club legend but you are also the first fans to take shots at Ole, even though he is in the same boat as Lampard.
Ask yourself, if Ole spend 300m this summer, would you not expect United to be competing at the top? Would you not laugh at United fans if they finished a very distance 3rd and be saying Ole needs to be sacked?
That's the last I'll say on this since we all know we won't be changing our minds and we have to wait and see how the season plays out. I just can't get over how such an ambitious fan base will be happy with finishing 20 points off the top again.
@Stlducks I know you said it’s the last, so if you don’t reply thats fine(but feel free too, you always make fair points that I like to hear)
Ole spent 200 million last year, if he adds Sancho/VDB/Monaco CB, that would bring him to around 380 million, and Chelsea have sold there best player in Hazard, meanwhile United have ended up keeping there’s in Pogba.
So if Chelsea should be competing surely United should be too, probably in a better position when you consider similar spending over the period, they’ve kept a 100 mill player compared to us selling ours, plus Ole has had a little bit longer at United and more managerial experience in general, and there spending is more spread out giving some players more time to settle.
So would you say United should be equally close(probably even closer than Chelsea) to City and Liverpool in that situation? Because I wouldn’t.
Also ‘all high and mighty’ 😂 you can’t have a dig at chelsea fans, and call someone high and mighty for biting back.
Edit: Also for me ambition is your club aiming to get back on top, pretending your already there when it’s clear to see your not isn’t ambition, it’s delusion, and many people would call me deluded if i said we will now compete for the title.
Ole also walked into a team that was 11 points behind you lot after 17 matches. We ended up finishing 6th, you finished 3rd.
Yeah, you lost your best player after that but you started ahead of us and immediately added Pulisic (accounting gimmicks aside) which compensates for the loss of Hazard at least somewhat.
I agree with your overall point about expectations on Lampard being too high from some, but just wanted to provide context for the comparison to Ole
@Stlducks I know you said it’s the last, so if you don’t reply thats fine(but feel free too, you always make fair points that I like to hear)
Ole spent 200 million last year, if he adds Sancho/VDB/Monaco CB, that would bring him to around 380 million, and Chelsea have sold there best player in Hazard, meanwhile United have ended up keeping there’s in Pogba.
So if Chelsea should be competing surely United should be too, probably in a better position when you consider similar spending over the period, they’ve kept a 100 mill player compared to us selling ours, plus Ole has had a little bit longer at United and more managerial experience in general, and there spending is more spread out giving some players more time to settle.
So would you say United should be equally close(probably even closer than Chelsea) to City and Liverpool in that situation? Because I wouldn’t.
Also ‘all high and mighty’ 😂 you can’t have a dig at chelsea fans, and call someone high and mighty for biting back.
Edit: Also for me ambition is your club aiming to get back on top, pretending your already there when it’s clear to see your not isn’t ambition, it’s delusion, and many people would call me deluded if i said we will now compete for the title.
should realize chelsea were in a much better position when ole took over
That source is horrendous, but I would be livid if we let go of Kante. He has had injury problems and is getting older, but he is still world class. Would rather get rid of Jorginho, even if we make a decent loss on him.
It’s nothing personal against Frank.....hell if Newcastle had gone out and brought in the players Chelsea just did, you’d be expecting them to make a run 😂
I’m all for giving managers time, and he certainly shouldn’t be sacked if he doesn’t win the title given what City and Liverpool have done the last few years, but this continuous talk that it’s ridiculous to challenge them and have this big uptick in points is what cracks me up.
It’s nothing personal against Frank.....hell if Newcastle had gone out and brought in the players Chelsea just did, you’d be expecting them to make a run 😂
I’m all for giving managers time, and he certainly shouldn’t be sacked if he doesn’t win the title given what City and Liverpool have done the last few years, but this continuous talk that it’s ridiculous to challenge them and have this big uptick in points is what cracks me up.
Other than Chelsea 2015-16 to 2016-17, there's no precedent for anywhere close to the kind of points increase it would take to challenge for the title.
In that scenario, Chelsea spent half the season battling relegation so it was easier to make the climb back. Harder to do anything close when you're already in the top 4.
That source is horrendous, but I would be livid if we let go of Kante. He has had injury problems and is getting older, but he is still world class. Would rather get rid of Jorginho, even if we make a decent loss on him.
Jorginho should never been bought in the first place. He was suppose to be our new Fabregas, but his passing is not even close
It’s nothing personal against Frank.....hell if Newcastle had gone out and brought in the players Chelsea just did, you’d be expecting them to make a run 😂
I’m all for giving managers time, and he certainly shouldn’t be sacked if he doesn’t win the title given what City and Liverpool have done the last few years, but this continuous talk that it’s ridiculous to challenge them and have this big uptick in points is what cracks me up.
Other than Chelsea 2015-16 to 2016-17, there's no precedent for anywhere close to the kind of points increase it would take to challenge for the title.
In that scenario, Chelsea spent half the season battling relegation so it was easier to make the climb back. Harder to do anything close when you're already in the top 4.
I'm not even saying Chelsea need to challenge the title. I'm saying finish within 12 points. They can finish 12 points back and I wouldn't think it was a terrible season but more than that and major questions of Lampard's ability need to be asked.
@El_Nino The United comparison is difficult because Woodward makes every deal worse than it needs to be. The reason I put more pressure on Lampard is because I feel like Chelsea were a better team when Lampard took over than United were when Ole took over (even with the loss of Hazard). Ole is a difficult position because his front office is a joke that will overpay for anyone. Lampard has one of the best negotiators in football and a rich owner that will back him.
Looking just as dollar amounts spent, yes United should be higher than Chelsea. But looking at the last 200m each club spent, Chelsea are WAY ahead. United spent 200m, sounds like a lot but break it down by player names instead of amounts.
United - Maguire, Bruno, AWB
Chelsea - Havertz, Pulisic, Chilwell, Silva, Sarr, Ziyech, Werner
Not even a comparison, right? Add VDB, Sancho and a CB, I still don't think it's close. Chelsea are still way ahead in terms of talent.
@Stlducks okay I agree the infrastructure at Chelsea is light years better and that does help, and tbh if you think Chelsea now have a squad to compete with City and Liverpool then fair enough; I disagree, but it’s all a matter of opinion.
My only issue is people keep citing money spent as a logic for why we should compete; and it’s stupid, the money is meaningless, the player quality brought in is what matters, if you think the players we’ve added should make a 25 point difference(taking us to within 10 points) then fair enough, I think it’s more like a 15 point difference in the first season, simply due to the time it takes for new players to settle( something that is exaggerated when literally over half of your starting XI will likely be new players.
Kante is trending atm seems people are talking about his future. Honestly think Chelsea should sell him while they can, with his injuries adding up and he's the type of player who relies on his engine he'll decline rapidly imo.
Kante is trending atm seems people are talking about his future. Honestly think Chelsea should sell him while they can, with his injuries adding up and he's the type of player who relies on his engine he'll decline rapidly imo.
yeah you gonna have to accept that wherever he goes he will be great but if you think long term this is probably the window you can get most for him
although with the attacking players they bought they might keep him for 1 more year and take the hit
I know what you mean, but look at Makelele, he was still amazing into his thirties, Kante could well have another 3-5 years left at the very top.
I do agree now would be the time to sell him if the right offer came, but if he looks fit and healthy, then I’d be very happy to just keep him into his early-mid thirties.
Kante is still top class. He just needs to be managed better. Let’s see how he holds up this coming season, if the injuries continue, then we should sell.
Chelsea need to keep Kante. He brings balance to the midfield in terms of attacking/defending. Like others have said, he just needs to be rotated more to avoid injury and fatigue but selling him would be a big mistake IMO.
I think the other thing with Kante is he’s perfect if Lampard wants to play both Mount and Havertz in a 433, it really needs someone like Kante who can focus purely on defence and covers the insane ground Kante does, no doubt the best on the planet in that role.
When we want managers to provide a swift improvement in performance: "Chelsea fans always pressure their managers. Such an unstable club can never be successful. Small club mentality."
When we want to give managers time to build out the team: "Chelsea fans lack aspiration. They are giving so much slack to the current manager. Small club mentality."
Guess, there's no winning
I don't want to make a big debate about this since it is the internet and we all know we won't be changing our mind but I wanted to defend my comments a little bit here. First, I was making a joking comment about Chelsea fans not being satisfied. After all the money spent and you are still wishing for another CB and another GK. That's fine, comment was a joke.
But then El_Nino wanted to get all high and mighty with the club having great ambition and taking a shot at Spurs. Again, it's a rival so that is fine. But you can't say you have great ambition but then be fine with a distance 3rd place finish after spending 300m in a summer. Those statements contradict themselves.
I am one of the first to say let a manager have time. I would have said Lampard has another year before pressure is added but then spending 300m speeds up the "project" and adds pressure. Chelsea fans will give Lampard more time because he's a club legend but you are also the first fans to take shots at Ole, even though he is in the same boat as Lampard.
Ask yourself, if Ole spend 300m this summer, would you not expect United to be competing at the top? Would you not laugh at United fans if they finished a very distance 3rd and be saying Ole needs to be sacked?
That's the last I'll say on this since we all know we won't be changing our minds and we have to wait and see how the season plays out. I just can't get over how such an ambitious fan base will be happy with finishing 20 points off the top again.
I think when we talk about position finishes, the idea of our performance becomes quite vague. As others have already pointed out, if City and Liv end up getting 90+ point finishes (which is quite possible with the recruitment of Messi and Thiago respectively), we might up end with a large gap between 2nd and 3rd. A better way to evaluate would be to see our individual performance in a silo. If we get 80~ points, I'll be happy with our finish.
For me, I would like to evaluate Lampard on his problem solving capabilities. Throughout the season, we have seen and Lampard has pointed out several issues with the squad. So far, I am happy with our recruitment as I feel it has been done with targeted solutions in mind. Some of them include:
1. Defensive frailty in set-piece situations (Silva to guide and solidify the defense)
2. Poor finishing (Werner is known to be a potent finisher)
3. Lack of creativity against low-block defenses (Ziyech and Havertz to bring in the much needed flair)
Solving each of these issues would help in points match-by-match and that's what the Chelsea fans should expect.
You only paid £32m for him, he didn’t have the best seasons Injury wise but with better care if he plays next season without getting any serious injuries he’ll be key for your team.
He’s still easily the worlds best defensive midfielder on his day and he’s be vital to breaking up attacks and allowing your attacking players to flourish. Personally there’s not a lot on his level when he’s on for. And for and if you sell him you’re going to be looking at £50m+ just to get someone even remotely close to his abilities defensively. You’d be better off keeping hold off him.
Rated E For Everyone.
Comments
I’d strongly assume we’d want the money this window though to go out and replace him ASAP.
I don't want to make a big debate about this since it is the internet and we all know we won't be changing our mind but I wanted to defend my comments a little bit here. First, I was making a joking comment about Chelsea fans not being satisfied. After all the money spent and you are still wishing for another CB and another GK. That's fine, comment was a joke.
But then El_Nino wanted to get all high and mighty with the club having great ambition and taking a shot at Spurs. Again, it's a rival so that is fine. But you can't say you have great ambition but then be fine with a distance 3rd place finish after spending 300m in a summer. Those statements contradict themselves.
I am one of the first to say let a manager have time. I would have said Lampard has another year before pressure is added but then spending 300m speeds up the "project" and adds pressure. Chelsea fans will give Lampard more time because he's a club legend but you are also the first fans to take shots at Ole, even though he is in the same boat as Lampard.
Ask yourself, if Ole spend 300m this summer, would you not expect United to be competing at the top? Would you not laugh at United fans if they finished a very distance 3rd and be saying Ole needs to be sacked?
That's the last I'll say on this since we all know we won't be changing our minds and we have to wait and see how the season plays out. I just can't get over how such an ambitious fan base will be happy with finishing 20 points off the top again.
Ole spent 200 million last year, if he adds Sancho/VDB/Monaco CB, that would bring him to around 380 million, and Chelsea have sold there best player in Hazard, meanwhile United have ended up keeping there’s in Pogba.
So if Chelsea should be competing surely United should be too, probably in a better position when you consider similar spending over the period, they’ve kept a 100 mill player compared to us selling ours, plus Ole has had a little bit longer at United and more managerial experience in general, and there spending is more spread out giving some players more time to settle.
So would you say United should be equally close(probably even closer than Chelsea) to City and Liverpool in that situation? Because I wouldn’t.
Also ‘all high and mighty’ 😂 you can’t have a dig at chelsea fans, and call someone high and mighty for biting back.
Edit: Also for me ambition is your club aiming to get back on top, pretending your already there when it’s clear to see your not isn’t ambition, it’s delusion, and many people would call me deluded if i said we will now compete for the title.
Yeah, you lost your best player after that but you started ahead of us and immediately added Pulisic (accounting gimmicks aside) which compensates for the loss of Hazard at least somewhat.
I agree with your overall point about expectations on Lampard being too high from some, but just wanted to provide context for the comparison to Ole
should realize chelsea were in a much better position when ole took over
I’m all for giving managers time, and he certainly shouldn’t be sacked if he doesn’t win the title given what City and Liverpool have done the last few years, but this continuous talk that it’s ridiculous to challenge them and have this big uptick in points is what cracks me up.
Other than Chelsea 2015-16 to 2016-17, there's no precedent for anywhere close to the kind of points increase it would take to challenge for the title.
In that scenario, Chelsea spent half the season battling relegation so it was easier to make the climb back. Harder to do anything close when you're already in the top 4.
Jorginho should never been bought in the first place. He was suppose to be our new Fabregas, but his passing is not even close
I'm not even saying Chelsea need to challenge the title. I'm saying finish within 12 points. They can finish 12 points back and I wouldn't think it was a terrible season but more than that and major questions of Lampard's ability need to be asked.
@El_Nino The United comparison is difficult because Woodward makes every deal worse than it needs to be. The reason I put more pressure on Lampard is because I feel like Chelsea were a better team when Lampard took over than United were when Ole took over (even with the loss of Hazard). Ole is a difficult position because his front office is a joke that will overpay for anyone. Lampard has one of the best negotiators in football and a rich owner that will back him.
Looking just as dollar amounts spent, yes United should be higher than Chelsea. But looking at the last 200m each club spent, Chelsea are WAY ahead. United spent 200m, sounds like a lot but break it down by player names instead of amounts.
United - Maguire, Bruno, AWB
Chelsea - Havertz, Pulisic, Chilwell, Silva, Sarr, Ziyech, Werner
Not even a comparison, right? Add VDB, Sancho and a CB, I still don't think it's close. Chelsea are still way ahead in terms of talent.
My only issue is people keep citing money spent as a logic for why we should compete; and it’s stupid, the money is meaningless, the player quality brought in is what matters, if you think the players we’ve added should make a 25 point difference(taking us to within 10 points) then fair enough, I think it’s more like a 15 point difference in the first season, simply due to the time it takes for new players to settle( something that is exaggerated when literally over half of your starting XI will likely be new players.
yeah you gonna have to accept that wherever he goes he will be great but if you think long term this is probably the window you can get most for him
although with the attacking players they bought they might keep him for 1 more year and take the hit
I do agree now would be the time to sell him if the right offer came, but if he looks fit and healthy, then I’d be very happy to just keep him into his early-mid thirties.
I think when we talk about position finishes, the idea of our performance becomes quite vague. As others have already pointed out, if City and Liv end up getting 90+ point finishes (which is quite possible with the recruitment of Messi and Thiago respectively), we might up end with a large gap between 2nd and 3rd. A better way to evaluate would be to see our individual performance in a silo. If we get 80~ points, I'll be happy with our finish.
For me, I would like to evaluate Lampard on his problem solving capabilities. Throughout the season, we have seen and Lampard has pointed out several issues with the squad. So far, I am happy with our recruitment as I feel it has been done with targeted solutions in mind. Some of them include:
1. Defensive frailty in set-piece situations (Silva to guide and solidify the defense)
2. Poor finishing (Werner is known to be a potent finisher)
3. Lack of creativity against low-block defenses (Ziyech and Havertz to bring in the much needed flair)
Solving each of these issues would help in points match-by-match and that's what the Chelsea fans should expect.
At least when Havertz is announced Kepa is no longer your record signing, I cringe at that £72m fee especially with it being paid upfront
You only paid £32m for him, he didn’t have the best seasons Injury wise but with better care if he plays next season without getting any serious injuries he’ll be key for your team.
He’s still easily the worlds best defensive midfielder on his day and he’s be vital to breaking up attacks and allowing your attacking players to flourish. Personally there’s not a lot on his level when he’s on for. And for and if you sell him you’re going to be looking at £50m+ just to get someone even remotely close to his abilities defensively. You’d be better off keeping hold off him.