Fifa 20 CMS Discussion Thread

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  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Places like New York City are under lockdown but they still have people walking all over the parks, eating on benches and ignoring the rules. No wonder they have been hit the worst.

    They say going through bad times tells you a lot about a person. I have noticed that for sure in good and bad ways on the news in America and with people I deal with every day. I am amazed how you can be watching a person (President Trump, Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, etc) give a speech and then watch a news show an hour later and they completely lie about what that person said like the public is not smart enough to understand press conferences.

    I have always been negative towards the media when it comes to sports and politics but I think this virus has made me more negative than ever towards most media outlets. It seems like they enjoy the panic they are causing on people.
  • Virtual_K
    1944 posts Play-Off Hero
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I have always been negative towards the media when it comes to sports and politics but I think this virus has made me more negative than ever towards most media outlets. It seems like they enjoy the panic they are causing on people.

    Amen brother!

    :# ... :o ... :# ... :o (Me taking deep breaths to avoid responding to another comment that clearly has no resolution).
    It's a time for being positive.

    I live in Orange County, California. Pretty much the same here as everywhere else. I have a route that I run three days a week and today was the first day I saw signs closing the park and restrooms that I run by. We've had the stay-at-home rule like everyone else, no large gatherings, etc, but exercise was permitted (and encouraged) as long as people kept at a distance (there are signs along the trail I run with virus info and safety tips). I fear that here, they are getting ready to institute an order to stop outside walks and runs. I live in a suburb, so it's not like there are huge crowds out on the trails, just a few people.

    This can't go on much longer. I fear that at some point in the near future, we just have to take the risk and go back to business as usual with awareness of social distance and hand washing. Prior to this virus, I was an advocate for bowing instead of hand shaking. How many people have you seen using the restroom and then not washing their hands? :D
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I have always been negative towards the media when it comes to sports and politics but I think this virus has made me more negative than ever towards most media outlets. It seems like they enjoy the panic they are causing on people.

    Amen brother!

    :# ... :o ... :# ... :o (Me taking deep breaths to avoid responding to another comment that clearly has no resolution).
    It's a time for being positive.

    I live in Orange County, California. Pretty much the same here as everywhere else. I have a route that I run three days a week and today was the first day I saw signs closing the park and restrooms that I run by. We've had the stay-at-home rule like everyone else, no large gatherings, etc, but exercise was permitted (and encouraged) as long as people kept at a distance (there are signs along the trail I run with virus info and safety tips). I fear that here, they are getting ready to institute an order to stop outside walks and runs. I live in a suburb, so it's not like there are huge crowds out on the trails, just a few people.

    This can't go on much longer. I fear that at some point in the near future, we just have to take the risk and go back to business as usual with awareness of social distance and hand washing. Prior to this virus, I was an advocate for bowing instead of hand shaking. How many people have you seen using the restroom and then not washing their hands? :D

    I received an email from work yesterday saying May 4 they plan on us all working back in the office again. That might seem crazy to some but there are so few cases around here going back to work is not a big risk.
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I received an email from work yesterday saying May 4 they plan on us all working back in the office again.

    ...I hear the Imperial March from Star Wars..., don't know why
    #MayTheFourthBeWithYou

  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I received an email from work yesterday saying May 4 they plan on us all working back in the office again.

    ...I hear the Imperial March from Star Wars..., don't know why
    #MayTheFourthBeWithYou

    May 4th is my birthday and Star Wars was one of my favorite movies growing up.. May the fourth be with you is a favorite of mine!
  • sviraman
    136 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    edited April 11
    right, after giving it labels as 'no sport but entertainment'

    That is not what I wrote, but I think it's telling that this is what you chose to read into it
    and now 'apery' too..., giving it a clearly dismissive opinion.
    The "apery" comment refers not to any particular "it", but to the idea of copying another format without accounting for underlying systemic differences. Thought you guys here would agree with me on that, willingness to understand and accept differences and all that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Virtual_K
    1944 posts Play-Off Hero
    sviraman wrote: »
    The "apery" comment refers not to any particular "it", but to the idea of copying another format without accounting for underlying systemic differences. Thought you guys here would agree with me on that, willingness to understand and accept differences and all that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    LOL! Your entire argument is a fallacy, and while there may be legitimate criticisms slipped between the inflammatory baiting and playing around with words like "sports entertainment" (is that a "professional" wrestling jab?), it's still your opinion, an extremely biased and obtuse one, although no doubt popular in your neck of the woods. And yes, you are dismissive and completely twist the reason why leagues in the USA have playoffs; you don't think in the proper scale. We have conferences (think league within a league) because of our country's size and population demographic. So when you go on a rant about playoffs and competition, why not start closer to home; I believe there are a couple of European leagues with playoffs. Competition? Why do the same team(s) win the league every season (ahem, Juventus)? You can discuss that and I won't even throw inflammatory insults your way because I'm actually interested in the differences.
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    sviraman wrote: »

    I'll leave you kids to it... have fun, keep it nice, don't denounce each other's side of the ocean :wink:
  • Virtual_K
    1944 posts Play-Off Hero
    I'll leave you kids to it... have fun, keep it nice, don't denounce each other's side of the ocean :wink:
    I know, it's tiresome; I should have just let it go. It's a sad state of affairs when there can't be a discussion without insults. Imagine if we started discussing politics. :p
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    I'll leave you kids to it... have fun, keep it nice, don't denounce each other's side of the ocean :wink:
    I know, it's tiresome; I should have just let it go. It's a sad state of affairs when there can't be a discussion without insults. Imagine if we started discussing politics. :p

    Funny that you mention it; I'm preparing my first active steps into politics, where I live :blush:
    But I won't elaborate on that here. Find me on social media and I'll talk :lol:
  • sviraman
    136 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    edited April 12
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    LOL! Your entire argument is a fallacy, and while there may be legitimate criticisms slipped between the inflammatory baiting and playing around with words like "sports entertainment" (is that a "professional" wrestling jab?), it's still your opinion, an extremely biased and obtuse one, although no doubt popular in your neck of the woods. And yes, you are dismissive and completely twist the reason why leagues in the USA have playoffs; you don't think in the proper scale. We have conferences (think league within a league) because of our country's size and population demographic. So when you go on a rant about playoffs and competition, why not start closer to home; I believe there are a couple of European leagues with playoffs. Competition? Why do the same team(s) win the league every season (ahem, Juventus)? You can discuss that and I won't even throw inflammatory insults your way because I'm actually interested in the differences.

    The way people use the phrase "well it's just your opinion" as if it adds anything to a conversation. Well yes, of course it is my opinion, what else could it be? I have my opinion, you have yours, we are debating them. Declaring that an opinion is, in fact, an opinion doesn't mean anything.

    RE: "inflammatory insults", I am 100% sure that I didn't intend to insult anyone here. I may have used some tongue-in-cheek jabs at some competition formats, and if you take it personally, I'm sorry.

    RE: European leagues with playoffs, I already expressed my feelings about the idea in the very comment you quoted and the one before that. In case it didn't register for some reason, I can repeat: it would be an abomination and a desperate cash grab for revenue. Though I don't recall any European leagues using full-on playoffs to decide the title, so it's not too bad. Still, Belgium is off the rails with their system, where a 2nd div 4th place can theoretically get into Europe.

    RE: why do the same teams win the league every season, because they are the best and also because capitalism. They are rich and well-enough run so as not to lose their money and turn it into consistent results. But you know for every successful Bayern, Juve and PSG there is a Milan, Man United and Monaco who squandered their capital by incompetent management. And it's not always the same teams. Like, if you said five years ago that the champion of Belarus is not BATE, and champion of Swiitzerland is not Basel, and LASK is leading in Austria, I'd have a hearty laugh. But here we are.
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    We really need matches back... In other news ESPN published an article about VAR that makes me thankful for VAR this season, no matter how annoying I think it is. Without VAR, Arsenal would be above Spurs in the table. So...Thanks VAR.

    Total overturns: 88
    Leading to goals: 22
    Disallowed goals: 46
    Penalties awarded: 16 (8 missed)
    Penalties retakes: 4
    Goals ruled out for offside: 28
    Goals awarded after incorrect offside: 8
    Goals ruled out for handball: 10
    Goals allowed after wrong handball: 2
    Red cards: 6
    Overturned red cards: 3
    Most net decisions: Man United 8
    Most net against: Sheffield United 6
    Most involvement: Leicester City, West Ham 13
    Most decisions for: Brighton, Man United 9
    Against: West Ham 9
    Fewest overturns in favor: Aston Villa 1
    Fewest overturn against: Newcastle 0

    Points Difference Without VAR
    West Ham 6
    Everton 5
    Man City 5
    Norwich 3
    Wolves 3
    Aston Villa 2
    Arsenal 1
    Chelsea 1
    Sheffield United 1
    Watford 0
    Crystal Palace -1
    Leicester -1
    Southampton -1
    Tottenham -1
    Bournemouth -2
    Burnley -2
    Liverpool -2
    Newcastle -2
    Brighton -5
    Man United -5
  • Virtual_K
    1944 posts Play-Off Hero
    sviraman wrote: »
    The way people use the phrase "well it's just your opinion" as if it adds anything to a conversation. Well yes, of course it is my opinion, what else could it be? I have my opinion, you have yours, we are debating them. Declaring that an opinion is, in fact, an opinion doesn't mean anything.
    We're not debating anything. Your post was clearly inflammatory to anyone reading it and you seem to be in denial that it was, which is not conducive to a real discussion. You can see how this can keep going around and around, so you can have the last word.

    Happy Easter.

  • sviraman
    136 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    edited April 12
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    We're not debating anything.
    I mean, you're the one asked me questions and said you're interested. Whatever.
    Virtual_K wrote: »
    Your post was clearly inflammatory to anyone reading it and you seem to be in denial that it was, which is not conducive to a real discussion.
    What's not conductive to a discussion is getting offended at harmless things.
    It's just baffling. Like, a few pages ago y'all were complaining of American over-sensitivity and literally straight up for real no joke calling a black person "an N". Which, like, wow, that's a new low, I don't even have enough yikes and oofs in me to properly react, but no one bats an eyelid.
    But offend the sacred ideas of holding a playoff at the end of the season, it's pitchfork time, we are mad as hell.

    Y'all weird, man.
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited April 14
    Eh, no? That's comparing apples with bananas... (as the Dutch saying goes)

    I was mentioning the over-sensitivity, not @Virtual_K and I then think Americans indeed are too touchy (don't know what nationality you carry). Today a NASCAR driver was fired over a similar thing. One bad word in the heat of the moment of an online race and... sacked. Insane, if you ask me.

    But, not important: back to the discussion here. Because we're typing, we have plenty of time to weigh our words. And it's okay to have an opinion, no problem, but the adjectives and values used to describe American sports or their system is peculiar to say the least.

    So, let's change this a bit: would you favor a Champions League to become an actual league, or if not, revert to a knock-out from the beginning (the way it was pre-1992) ? Because: I don't get the argument why a national football association ought to make a distinction between a league and a cup, a knock-out or play-off, while a European association should not.
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Eh, no? That's comparing apples with bananas... (as the Dutch saying goes)

    I was mentioning the over-sensitivity, not @Virtual_K and I then think Americans indeed are too touchy (don't know what nationality you carry). Today a NASCAR driver was fired over a similar thing. One bad word in the heat of the moment of an online race and... sacked. Insane, if you ask me.

    But, not important: back to the discussion here. Because we're typing, we have plenty of time to weigh our words. And it's okay to have an opinion, no problem, but the adjectives and values used to describe American sports or their system is peculiar to say the least.

    So, let's change this a bit: would you favor a Champions League to become an actual league, or if not, revert to a knock-out from the beginning (the way it was pre-1992) ? Because: I don't get the argument why a national football association ought to make a distinction between a league and a cup, a knock-out or play-off, while a European association should not.

    I would hate if the Champions League became a league. I think playing teams in your own country is way, way more important and enjoyable than playing teams from other countries. It is special now seeing Ajax v Real Madrid but imagine if they did it every year, it would lose that special appeal since it's the new normal.

    I would be fine with UCL being a knockout from the start instead of group stages. It would give smaller teams a better chance to advance and you could add more teams since you would be playing less games. Teams like Ajax, PSV, Celtic, etc, would not have to play qualifying rounds just to make group stages. Set it up like the FA Cup. Lower ranked teams start in round 1, higher ranked teams start in round 3 or something like that.

    My favorite competition is the FA Cup because I love how every game could be the last for your team. Drama, excitement and pressure in every match. No rules on the drawings, any team can play any team.
  • Wyojasond
    15358 posts World Class
    Yeah I’d hate if the CL became a league. Harks back to the super league they keep talking about and I can say right now I’d stop watching the sport if that happened.

    Wouldn’t have a huge complaint if they went back to a pure knockout tournament. Would actually prefer it over the group stage.
  • dannyboy
    12925 posts Has That Special Something
    Yeah I don't like the group stage at all.
  • Alastair
    10246 posts Moderator
    It'd never happen but I'd love the Champions League to be a straight knock out for Champions only (possibly league and cup champions to ensure it is still bigger than the EL).
    Then have a Europa League for the next best teams in the league.
    Then the new EL2 can be for the next best again.

    Maybe 6 teams per country. e.g. for England:
    CL = PL and FA Cup winners
    EL = 2nd + 3rd
    EL2 = LC + 4th
  • WestardLord
    2025 posts Fans' Favourite
    Bored, so I'm messing around in Photoshop.

    Thoughts on this?

    GVXjc1p.png
  • Virtual_K
    1944 posts Play-Off Hero
    I agree with the general sentiment that Champions League shouldn't be an actual league. I assume the league would run concurrently with national leagues, and I don't think it's generally a good idea to divert attention and perhaps some relevance away from national leagues. If I'm being honest, however, it would be kind of interesting to see who came out on top in a league format.

    I don't know how I feel about playoff format. Last season, MLS Cup went to a single elimination match and did away with the aggregate score in the middle rounds. The matches were more open and exciting with lots of attacking, but there's a sense that Seattle stole the championship from LAFC who had the best league record by a good margin. So I guess it might be a matter of how a person feels about underdogs winning a title.

    @WestardLord , your question is probably better served in the help/graphics discussion, although changing team logos might be playing with fire even if it looks cool. :)
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    If you could change 3 things about a league, competition or club rules. What would they be? Mine would be..

    1. In England, I would change the EFL cup to not include teams that finished in the top 7 the year before. The winner of the EFL cup is guaranteed a spot into next years Europa league. This will make the competition a little more exciting and meaningful while also getting rid of the top teams that already have a congested schedule.

    2. Champions league and Europa league would be a knockout competition from the start. EVERY league would get 4 teams in UCL and 3 teams in Europa league. The better teams do not start competing until later rounds (see FA cup setup)

    3. More wage restrictions. Not a hard salary cap but some type of limit example each team can only have 3 players making more than X amount. Bring some balance to squads that do not care about money.
  • Alastair
    10246 posts Moderator
    Think my three will be very controversial :joy: :

    1. 100 team football league (5 leagues of 20 with) followed by regional leagues starting in non-league (a 2-4-8-16 region set up at each level). 3 up and 3 down at every level. The bottom two tiers of the FL could be League 2 North and South instead of League 2 and League 3.

    2. Revamp the cup competitions:
    • FA Cup replays reintroduced to 5th round and all rounds played at a weekend (replays midweek). UCL spot goes to FA Cup winner.
    • Clubs will lose income from 3 less home matches as a result of not having as many teams in the league so that can be addressed by reformatting the EFL Cup and Trophy.
    • I'd make the EFL Cup a group stage with one team from each of the 5 leagues. Then a knockout (top team in each group goes through to the knockout stage with the twelve second place teams from the lowest leagues - this'd remove fixture congestion from PL teams who finish 2nd).
    • For the EFL trophy I'd make it a straight knockout with the teams from leagues 1-3 along with 2 teams from each of Conference North and South (potentially the 3 relegated team + one other).

    3. Reformat the European competitions to have the format I suggested yesterday:
    • The Champions League to be a straight knock out for league and cup champions only
    • The Europa League for the next best teams in the league.
    • Then the new EL2 can be for the next best again.
    • In total 6 teams per country. e.g. for England:
      CL = PL and FA Cup winners
      EL = 2nd + 3rd
      EL2 = LC + 4th
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited April 17
    Stlducks wrote: »
    If you could change 3 things about a league, competition or club rules. What would they be? Mine would be..

    Always look for the goal
    Points for goals scored. A 4-0 win is worth more than a 1-0 win, while a losing team could still recover points by scoring themselves (this obviously only applies in a league format). The Amsterdam Tournament was held like this (Ajax' pre-season tournament). Two points for a win, one for a draw and for every goal scored.

    No more cheating
    Apply actual playing time (meaning: clock runs only when ball is in play)
    30 minutes per half: no more cause to stretch, or play for time.

    Abolish offside rule
    just be more careful and pay more attention

    Post edited by Danimal5981 on
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited April 17
    Stlducks wrote: »
    If you could change 3 things about a league, competition or club rules. What would they be? Mine would be..

    A sorry, I misunderstood:

    1. Champions
    Champions League (in whichever format) for national champions and national cup winners only. I fully agree with @Alastair on that one - it ought to be more about what the teams deserve, not just about what is fun to watch for us. Professional sports, like your own work, are about reward. Awarding a spot to the cup winner enables the possibility to merge leagues, while keeping cups separated, or vice versa.

    2. national transfers
    The transfer system, or trade of players based on money is abolished.
    Teams are required to present a squad of at least 25 - 3 goalies and 22 field players, of which at least 10 are home grown. All shortages or any desired amount of players on top of the 25 ought to be home grown as well and below the age of 20. Players can no longer be bought by compensating another party with a transfer fee. The effect is that (from the viewpoint of risk for clubs and development of players) contracts will shorter. Players with expired contracts enter a national exchange draft. Dissatisfied players can be put up for contract exchange, where one team can take over a player based on existing contract terms (much like loaning a player now) including it's duration.

    3. International transfers
    Transfers abroad based on merit within UEFA - players become eligible to transfers abroad when they've reached a minimum international caps for country, or a minimum amount of European games. This ought to ensure a more natural flow of player and transfer development per country, as well as raising the stakes and honour to represent your country or club internationally.
    Post edited by Danimal5981 on
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Stlducks wrote: »
    If you could change 3 things about a league, competition or club rules. What would they be? Mine would be..

    Always look for the goal
    Points for goals scored. A 4-0 win is worth more than a 1-0 win, while a losing team could still recover points by scoring themselves (this obviously only applies in a league format). The Amsterdam Tournament was held like this (Ajax' pre-season tournament). Two points for a win, one for a draw and for every goal scored.

    No more cheating
    Apply actual playing time (meaning: clock runs only when ball is in play)
    30 minutes per half: no more cause to stretch, or play for time.

    Abolish offside rule
    just be more careful and pay more attention

    For your first point, would you remove the goal difference in the standings then? Or still keep that as a tie-breaker? I would like goals to count for something more, then when you have a team like Newcastle playing City they won't just sit back and try losing 1-0. Newcastle will have a reason to fight for a goal if that point could save them.

    I like the play time rule but I also like the drama of having +4 minutes at the very end of a match. If you find a way to keep that and make a stoppage in play I would like it.

    Offside - I have tried explaining to people who do not watch soccer why the offside is needed. But if teams didn't abuse not having the rule I think it could be removed. I just worry teams will have a striker sitting in the box even while his team is defending and it turns into knocking long balls back and forth to each other.
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Stlducks wrote: »
    If you could change 3 things about a league, competition or club rules. What would they be? Mine would be..

    3. International transfers
    Transfers abroad based on merit within UEFA - players become eligible to transfers abroad when they've reached a minimum international caps for country, or a minimum amount of European games. This ought to ensure a more natural flow of player and transfer development per country, as well as raising the stakes and honour to represent your country or club internationally.

    Restricted transfers could be interesting and have a real knock on effect. If teams in England can't go buy young players from other countries they will be forced to develop their own English talent. Every country doing this could really improve their own talent to improved International play.
  • Danimal5981
    2558 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited April 19
    Stlducks wrote: »
    For your first point, would you remove the goal difference in the standings then? Or still keep that as a tie-breaker? I would like goals to count for something more, then when you have a team like Newcastle playing City they won't just sit back and try losing 1-0. Newcastle will have a reason to fight for a goal if that point could save them.

    Well in terms of points, a 1-0 win counts as much as a 2-2 draw in points, but it obviously will have an effect on goal difference. so: yes. Goal difference will make the difference here, because one has three points with +1 goal diff, while the other has three points without any goal difff.

    The purpose of the rule is that in whichever position you are in the match or in the league, goals give points. This is to motivate to always play on the attack: if you can't win, at least you can try and score - there'd still be a difference between losing 5-0 or 6-1, even for the losing side. It also defeats the purpose of playing for a result (a gentleman's draw no longer gives any guarantee).

    It also means no league is truly decided until the final whistle. If I'd be one point down before the last match day and my competitor wins 1-0 (scoring three points) and I am 3-2 down, that equalizer might still make a difference.

    All the rules are meant that football, as sports ought to be, can have a turnaround until the very last second on the pitch, and only on that pitch: no acting, no complacency and no maths involved, unless -by any chance- it would be #1 against #last where one would be granted a win, if the other is granted a minimum amount of goals, for both to save their skin. But these mathematical oddities exist even in the sport nowadays.
  • Alastair
    10246 posts Moderator
    Not sure I quite think points for goals is a good idea but I'd like to see some way to reward them. Potentially something like the Watney Cup which happened in England in the 70s.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    It was held before the start of the season, and was contested by the teams that had scored the most goals in each of the four divisions of the Football League the previous season who had not been promoted or admitted to one of the European competitions. Two teams from each division took part, making eight participants in total.

    The competition was a straight knockout format, each match was a one-off with no replays. The final took place at the home ground of one of the finalists, rather than a neutral venue.
  • Stlducks
    3805 posts National Call-Up
    Alastair wrote: »
    Not sure I quite think points for goals is a good idea but I'd like to see some way to reward them. Potentially something like the Watney Cup which happened in England in the 70s.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    It was held before the start of the season, and was contested by the teams that had scored the most goals in each of the four divisions of the Football League the previous season who had not been promoted or admitted to one of the European competitions. Two teams from each division took part, making eight participants in total.

    The competition was a straight knockout format, each match was a one-off with no replays. The final took place at the home ground of one of the finalists, rather than a neutral venue.

    What do you get for winning the Watney cup though? Is it just a preseason cup competition? If so, I think goals for points would be more beneficial to teams fighting to stay up or win promotion instead of another cup competition where the reward is not that big.
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