Youtubers, EA and Packs: Please Read

13
Hi All,

I wanted to post this thread here and will be posted on other threads such as reddit. This is a discussion and concern on loot boxes.

As your aware last year a committee was held in London, England to discuss the ethics of business models such as loot boxes that are preying on minors from companies such as EA and Epic games. I'm here to let everyone know that this has now extended into other countries and has raised major concerns.

The US senate department is pushing a bill to permanently ban in game loot boxes.

I'm from Australia, and the Australian government is seriously looking into this loot box system that preys on people with gambling addictions a well as affecting minors.

Research has been performed around Europe and here in Australia and the results from surveys from people within various age groups that play Fifa, Apex, Fortnite has shown that the majority of these ideas about purchasing in game loot boxes is a result of popular youtubers. A shocking 85% has shown that in game purchases are influenced by popular youtubers.

I my self have two boys who play fifa, and have found that they watch youtubers such as Bateson87, Castro, MattHD, AA9Skillz, who spend thousands of dollars on fifa points. Even though they say in some videos that "let the youtubers by Fifa points", this in itself is insufficient, as they are using subliminal messages in provoking minors to spend money as well as individuals who have gambling issues. I have blocked my kids from watching these videos, as it influences them to spend money.

These youtubers are advertising for EA to provoke in game purchases. A game should not have a gambling system in built. Fifa is rated as a peggy 3+ but provokes minors to spend real money even pushing them to the brink of stealing their parents credit cards.

Based on these facts and internal discussion was held with EA representatives about their business model and whether in game purchases with real money was an ideal approach for a business. Yes EA is a business and needs to make money in order to pay its staff, but not at the expense of minors or people who have a gambling addiction.

A simple question to a this representative was asked if they have kids. They answered yes and that both play fifa. The next and most important question that was asked if they would let their kids spend real money on fifa packs.

The EA representative couldn't answer the question. In my eyes this question is a simple yes or no answer. Even though they didn't answer the answer was pretty obvious.

Based on this and various research that has been provided and with Belgium and Netherlands, the Australian government with various divisions of the European union will be working with youtube to demand that these youtubers who provoke in game loot boxes to stop uploading videos of this type of content with a written warning, if they persist the option will be to remove these videos and if not complying with request a permanent deletion of their channel/account.

Comments

  • Knowlesdinho
    15133 posts World Class
    Nice put together thread. Of course there will be those on here that say it isn't gambling.
  • Zartugames
    83 posts Park Captain
    I hope fifa fut gets banned, like football manager was for years in Germany. Just because they are really bad at making a fair play system. As I said before you can create the possibility to get money from elsewhere and not from packs as being ea. But they don't care about changing their bad system.
  • CycloMusic10
    953 posts Professional
    Nice put together thread. Of course there will be those on here that say it isn't gambling.

    Who on earth will say that excepting some youtubers?
  • unxius
    1060 posts Professional
    I personally think all transactions should be banned on a game you have too pay for .
    But on free games " I see it as they need to make their money back "
    And the gamblering side .
    If you use real money to get a chance , then its gambling on a chance . That is exactly what gambling is .
  • Brownian_Motion
    380 posts Sunday League Hero
    Thanks for the post. FIFA points must get banned and I’m very much looking forward to it.
  • Pandorrann
    264 posts Sunday League Hero
    I would still rather see EA get in trouble for providing a game with broken servers and gameplay than for loot boxes which players actually have control over.
  • Mackie17
    8565 posts League Winner
    The YouTubers who personally I have no time for, are not responsible for this system

    EA are. It's them that need to be forced to change.

    YouTubers are ten a penny. Every kid on the world wants to be one ATM. Ban one and the kids will watch another
  • Impressive Tackle
    433 posts Sunday League Hero
    Good luck. It is a predatory system which has created gambling addicts (addicted to the “surprise mechanics”) and worst of all a lot of them our children.

    The youtubers are not the source of the problem here so I’m not sure how effective going after them will be but they certainly hold some of the blame for pumping video after video out of them playing the fruit machine and editing those videos to show more jackpots than is realistic.
  • Eyeball
    281 posts Sunday League Hero
    The whole point of FIFA points is to extract large sums of money from the wealthy minority and whereas in previous years a professional footballer might spend $1K+ of their cold hard cash, it's likely to be ten times that for many of them this year.

    Why do so many of the best special cards and icons cost so much this year compared to last year?

    EA is executing perfectly to extract billions dollars from the professional footballers and I don't think anyone is going to argue this time, it's so blatant this year.

    How many professional footballers spending $10K+ results in a billion dollars in FIFA points revenue?

    They don't have a clue EA are targeting them in this way and if they did they would still want to spend so much to get the best cards, right? :grimace:
  • Yes kill paid for to win loot boxes think fortnite is purely just skins and it's a free game so ok with it my kids have spent £20 each on it or there about with my agreement so happy to pay for the developer Fifa costs £60 and the loot boxes help you win that's the problem no probs with packs and the rest of the game just only paid for stuff shouldn't be pay to win yes its gambling
  • RexAnglo1066
    3435 posts National Call-Up
    edited February 2020
    You Tubers are merely a symptom, a natural result, of the disease that is E.A monetisation.

    Stop the exploitative Fifa points business model, reset the market, clamp down on coin sellers (and the You Tubers who blatantly promote them), and place caps on the price of the rarest cards (such as the premium icons, the TOTY Mbappe etc...).

    Do this, in a way that still allows some player agency and flexibility within the market, and the whole issue goes away.

    Unfortunately, E.A seem more interested in releasing their 25th version of Ben Yedder than fixing anything fundamental...and why would they?

    They've had a record year for profits.

    Fifa points have sold in record numbers.

    To all intents and purposes the "community", through its spending, seems to be quite clear that it wants more cards, and more variants, and they will buy more Fifa points to increase their chances of getting one of these cards.

    You could even argue that E.A simply seem to be responding to what the average Fifa player wants.

    We say no, that's absurd - but they will say yes, yes it is, according to our numbers.

    Until it is no longer profitable or they are forced to withdraw Fifa points from the game in their key territories (N/A and Europe principally), clearly, nothing will change.

    Next year, I think, we can expect to see more cards than ever before.
  • Queens11
    3090 posts National Call-Up
    Pandorrann wrote: »
    I would still rather see EA get in trouble for providing a game with broken servers and gameplay than for loot boxes which players actually have control over.

    Yes for the amount of bs paying customers have had to put up with for the last 9-10 years I would like to see fines in the billions just enough to shut them down
    Maybe a company with some sort of moral decency who actually cares about customers and making a good working order game with licensing
  • Mackie17 wrote: »
    The YouTubers who personally I have no time for, are not responsible for this system

    EA are. It's them that need to be forced to change.

    YouTubers are ten a penny. Every kid on the world wants to be one ATM. Ban one and the kids will watch another

    Youtubers are not responsible for the monetisation in games correct. But videos such as "OMG I packed 7 ShapeShifters" or "2 ShapeShifters in 1 Pack WTF" is a luring mechanism for our kids. A reasonable person would assume that if he can pack 7 then I can pack at least 3.

    So in arguing the fact that youtubers are not responsible is incorrect. They are also responsible as it provokes/promotes minors in gambling and some instance stealing parents credit cards.

    Yes the community is quite clear on their needs, as I can see. I'm not going to comment on bad gameplay or any server related issue, the evidence of these issues can be seen via playing and in multiple videos. Even an offline game such as squad battles can have delay, so something is obviouly wrong.

    This discussion is on monatisation and preying on inocent minors. every young boy would love to have Messi and Ronaldo in their team. Whats the probability of this happening?

    France has demanded the algorithm of packs and how they are calculated. This in itself will lead to more questions being, raised. Our research has shown that pack weights displayed on your screen are in fact not true they are completely misleading. We are working with the French government to attain this information on the pack calculation algorithm.
  • erdhfdsjh
    714 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Zartugames wrote: »
    I hope fifa fut gets banned, like football manager was for years in Germany. Just because they are really bad at making a fair play system. As I said before you can create the possibility to get money from elsewhere and not from packs as being ea. But they don't care about changing their bad system.

    FM was banned when? And why?
  • pekkaa88
    7267 posts Big Money Move
    edited February 2020
    Just make the game and this forum 18+

    Let me my gamble in peace
  • Bapinho
    3643 posts National Call-Up
    Lootboxes in fortnite? Lol if you want your rant to be taken seriously by others i would remove that part. Only in save the world has been lootboxes and good guy epic games actually removed them already like 1.5 year ago
  • FutMan2099 wrote: »
    Based on this and various research that has been provided and with Belgium and Netherlands, the Australian government with various divisions of the European union will be working with youtube to demand that these youtubers who provoke in game loot boxes to stop uploading videos of this type of content with a written warning, if they persist the option will be to remove these videos and if not complying with request a permanent deletion of their channel/account.

    Lol. In your dreams maybe. As long as there is no law or anything you can't just demand them to not upload packopenings :joy:

    It's not even gambling under current law.

    Also there is so much wrong with your post. Yes ea is a "big, bad company", but to call it a "fact" that they put children on the brink of stealing credit cards? Lmao. That's not down to EA, eventually you gotta educate kids and tell them about the law, the meaning of money and responsibility.
  • AlexBear012
    2938 posts National Call-Up
    FutMan2099 wrote: »
    Mackie17 wrote: »
    The YouTubers who personally I have no time for, are not responsible for this system

    EA are. It's them that need to be forced to change.

    YouTubers are ten a penny. Every kid on the world wants to be one ATM. Ban one and the kids will watch another

    Our research has shown that pack weights displayed on your screen are in fact not true they are completely misleading.

    must have taken 10 seconds to do this research

  • FutMan2099 wrote: »
    Mackie17 wrote: »
    The YouTubers who personally I have no time for, are not responsible for this system

    EA are. It's them that need to be forced to change.

    YouTubers are ten a penny. Every kid on the world wants to be one ATM. Ban one and the kids will watch another

    Youtubers are not responsible for the monetisation in games correct. But videos such as "OMG I packed 7 ShapeShifters" or "2 ShapeShifters in 1 Pack WTF" is a luring mechanism for our kids. A reasonable person would assume that if he can pack 7 then I can pack at least 3.

    So in arguing the fact that youtubers are not responsible is incorrect. They are also responsible as it provokes/promotes minors in gambling and some instance stealing parents credit cards.

    Yes the community is quite clear on their needs, as I can see. I'm not going to comment on bad gameplay or any server related issue, the evidence of these issues can be seen via playing and in multiple videos. Even an offline game such as squad battles can have delay, so something is obviouly wrong.

    This discussion is on monatisation and preying on inocent minors. every young boy would love to have Messi and Ronaldo in their team. Whats the probability of this happening?

    France has demanded the algorithm of packs and how they are calculated. This in itself will lead to more questions being, raised. Our research has shown that pack weights displayed on your screen are in fact not true they are completely misleading. We are working with the French government to attain this information on the pack calculation algorithm.

    Ofc they are true lol. Misleading maybe, but still true.
  • AlexBear012
    2938 posts National Call-Up
    also this year buying Messi and Ronaldo became "very easy" let's say. you may not pack them but you can buy them for sure.

    not trying to defend EA just trying to find a counter point
  • ozcs_69
    4694 posts Big Money Move
    loot boxes or surprise packages that can be purchased with real currency could either be removed our content of the package visible before purchase...
  • ozcs_69
    4694 posts Big Money Move
    EA doesn't even reward content providers, in fortnite, there is a provider code that you can enter and your supported content provider, gets a percentage of the purchase, it's crazy these fifa YouTubers and steamers, spend so much of their own money to earn so little in return and for sure encourage others in the way to spend real money or effort on this broken game
  • Jdizzle
    2873 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited February 2020
    ozcs_69 wrote: »
    EA doesn't even reward content providers, in fortnite, there is a provider code that you can enter and your supported content provider, gets a percentage of the purchase, it's crazy these fifa YouTubers and steamers, spend so much of their own money to earn so little in return and for sure encourage others in the way to spend real money or effort on this broken game

    The prize pools for the tournaments as well are so different as well it's hilarious. Difference between fortnite is as well there isn't really a pay wall to become a pro, maybe you need a decent PC that's about it. Whereas in fifa, to become a pro you have to spend thousands or be really good at trading to compete with others.
  • MxMLover
    227 posts Sunday League Hero
    Its not gambeling. Gambling is all about luck. Fifa packs are not
  • Fifababy
    1204 posts Professional
    My son just came in this morning and said look at castro he has packed blah blah blah I never watch these type of people but I had a look and it struck me ea must be very close to these guys the acting and over the top reactions they go to to make it look like this ❤️❤️❤️❤️ is packable is absurd. They are EAs shop front for peddling points to kids so they can gamble.
  • mypetfrog
    2324 posts Fans' Favourite
    Absolutely it has to stop. As a parent who's already had to request a refund once from Microsoft for unauthorised purchase of such things, it's time to stop. The attraction and addiction is too great for many young people to resist. In psychological terms the addiction of FUT is very carefully planned by EA. Making billions of dollars from promoting gambling to minors is despicable.

    As EA are fighting this vociferously I sincerely hope the UK government and courts not only ban Fifa points but go one step further and commence legal action to force EA to refund monies spent over say the past 3 years.

    I can't wait for the day when we see claims companies popping up for this!
  • RA22Y
    314 posts Sunday League Hero
    How can your kids buy FIFA points?

    1. They shouldn't have a credit/debit card.
    2. They shouldn't be playing FUT because it is online and their child account on console won't allow them to go online.

    Unless, of course, one or both of those things have changed in recent years since my kids got a bit older and can have those things.
  • mypetfrog
    2324 posts Fans' Favourite
    RA22Y wrote: »
    How can your kids buy FIFA points?

    1. They shouldn't have a credit/debit card.
    2. They shouldn't be playing FUT because it is online and their child account on console won't allow them to go online.

    Unless, of course, one or both of those things have changed in recent years since my kids got a bit older and can have those things.

    I'm old. Kids are 17 and 21. Should know better but temptation got too great. Something I completely understand. He admitted it rather than hid it. Regretful and heavily admonished.

    Thanks for the parenting advice though.
  • tommyboyo
    4221 posts National Call-Up
    mypetfrog wrote: »
    RA22Y wrote: »
    How can your kids buy FIFA points?

    1. They shouldn't have a credit/debit card.
    2. They shouldn't be playing FUT because it is online and their child account on console won't allow them to go online.

    Unless, of course, one or both of those things have changed in recent years since my kids got a bit older and can have those things.

    I'm old. Kids are 17 and 21. Should know better but temptation got too great. Something I completely understand. He admitted it rather than hid it. Regretful and heavily admonished.

    Thanks for the parenting advice though.

    17 and 21

    I thought you meant actual young children, not just 'your kids'!!!!

    Fair play to them, wish spaffing a few quid on FP was the worst thing I was getting up to at that age.
  • mypetfrog wrote: »
    RA22Y wrote: »
    How can your kids buy FIFA points?

    1. They shouldn't have a credit/debit card.
    2. They shouldn't be playing FUT because it is online and their child account on console won't allow them to go online.

    Unless, of course, one or both of those things have changed in recent years since my kids got a bit older and can have those things.

    I'm old. Kids are 17 and 21. Should know better but temptation got too great. Something I completely understand. He admitted it rather than hid it. Regretful and heavily admonished.

    Thanks for the parenting advice though.

    That's not on EA, that's on your "kids" then.

    Best thing is he probably spent all the fp and then asked you to go for a refund :joy:
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