Liverpool Football Club

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  • LFC Simon 98
    19523 posts World Class
    Didn’t he struggle against Mendez-Laing?

    He got done a couple of times by pure pace yea. But everyone has the odd ‘bad’ game, I think he’s come on a lot defensively. VS Chelsea he made was very good at the back imo
  • wth22
    11169 posts Has That Special Something
    Even Klopp recognizes TAA isn't defensively the strongest. No coincidence the games he got benched for last season were City away, PSG away, Utd away, Barca away, basically the biggest away games all season.

    He's still 21 so obviously he has time on his side but there are defensive flaws atm.
  • SDoofus
    6430 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 2019
    There’s so much wrong with the stuff that’s being said in here.

    First of all, it’s an absolute myth that TAA is weak defensively. Yeah, he gets beat every now and then, but so does every other fullback in the League.

    Secondly, TAA doesn’t get “targeted”. Opposition teams naturally gravitate away from the side VVD plays, which happens to be where TAA is.

    As for those games you’ve cherry picked, @wth22...

    He did start against City away, maybe you’re thinking of the home game?

    He was also benched against Bournemouth and Huddersfield, so it wasn’t just the “biggest games”.

    Speaking of big games, last season alone, he started against Chelsea at home and away, Spurs at home and away, Arsenal home and away and City away in the PL and in the CL, he started against PSG at home, Napoli at home and away, Bayern Munich at home and away, Barcelona at home and Spurs in the final.

    This season, he’s started against Napoli away, Chelsea away, Chelsea in the Super Cup and Arsenal at home. Every single big game we’ve had so far, bar the Community Shield, which he played 67 minutes of.

    You can bet your bottom dollar he’ll be starting against United next Sunday.

    It’s a joke that you’ve cherry picked the few that he didn’t start in, tbh. Confirmation bias.
  • LFC Simon 98
    19523 posts World Class
    wth22 wrote: »
    Even Klopp recognizes TAA isn't defensively the strongest. No coincidence the games he got benched for last season were City away, PSG away, Utd away, Barca away, basically the biggest away games all season.

    He's still 21 so obviously he has time on his side but there are defensive flaws atm.

    Interestingly we failed to win in all of those. Although Trent wasn’t dropped for City, he played 90mins
  • Argie8
    6213 posts Big Money Move
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    Argie8 wrote: »
    TAA could be an elite RB. Don't see the point in moving to CM where he would probably be just another decent CM

    i think its more because he is a terrible defender than him offering more in CM

    A terrible defender despite being in the team of the season...at right back. Interesting
  • Argie8
    6213 posts Big Money Move
    He's not amazing defensively ofc but he's ok. It's a weakness that can be clearly improved though
  • TakeItSlow
    8726 posts League Winner
    TAA is very average defensively, anyone with half decent football knowledge can see that. His positioning at times is abysmal.

    His attacking play, however, is close to Kimmich as one of the best in the world, which makes up for his defensive frailties along with Klopps system.

    If TAA was at United he’d be completely exposed as a fraud defensively.
  • wth22
    11169 posts Has That Special Something
    SDoofus wrote: »
    There’s so much wrong with the stuff that’s being said in here.

    First of all, it’s an absolute myth that TAA is weak defensively. Yeah, he gets beat every now and then, but so does every other fullback in the League.

    Secondly, TAA doesn’t get “targeted”. Opposition teams naturally gravitate away from the side VVD plays, which happens to be where TAA is.

    As for those games you’ve cherry picked, @wth22...

    He did start against City away, maybe you’re thinking of the home game?

    He was also benched against Bournemouth and Huddersfield, so it wasn’t just the “biggest games”.

    Speaking of big games, last season alone, he started against Chelsea at home and away, Spurs at home and away, Arsenal home and away and City away in the PL and in the CL, he started against PSG at home, Napoli at home and away, Bayern Munich at home and away, Barcelona at home and Spurs in the final.

    This season, he’s started against Napoli away, Chelsea away, Chelsea in the Super Cup and Arsenal at home. Every single big game we’ve had so far, bar the Community Shield, which he played 67 minutes of.

    You can bet your bottom dollar he’ll be starting against United next Sunday.

    It’s a joke that you’ve cherry picked the few that he didn’t start in, tbh. Confirmation bias.

    Yeah my bad, he was benched for City at home. Gomez was out for the away game (and most of the other big games you've mentioned last season) so Klopp didn't really have a defensive RB alternatives to bench TAA in.

    The proportion of big games he missed vs small games (Bournemouth and Husdersfield) is gigantic.
  • LFC Simon 98
    19523 posts World Class
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.
  • ChrisLFC
    7322 posts League Winner
    edited October 2019
    He is clearly a liability enough defensively for Klopp to bench him in important games.

    Why else would Klopp bench one of our key creative outlets against Barca? He's certainly not a Moreno level liability like some try to make out. Although, he is to the extent that Klopp dropped him for our most important game of the season against Barca in favour of a makeshift RB.

    I personally disagree with the benchings as last season showed that with Trent the risk is worth the reward. We were held scoreless when he was benched against PSG (from open play), Barca and City. In the return leg he setup two goals. Against City away he created our only goal. We scored 3 goals against PSG at home

    Whatever we lose in defensive stability. Trent more than makes up for it going forward.

    He wasn't benched against United either he was recovering from an injury in which he'd not started in 4 games. Its like saying Martial was benched if he doesn't start against us :D

  • wth22
    11169 posts Has That Special Something
    ChrisLFC wrote: »
    He is clearly a liability enough defensively for Klopp to bench him in important games.

    Why else would Klopp bench one of our key creative outlets against Barca? He's certainly not a Moreno level liability like some try to make out. Although, he is to the extent that Klopp dropped him for our most important game of the season against Barca in favour of a makeshift RB.

    I personally disagree with the benchings as last season showed that with Trent the risk is worth the reward. We were held scoreless when he was benched against PSG (from open play), Barca and City. In the return leg he setup two goals. Against City away he created our only goal. We scored 3 goals against PSG at home

    Whatever we lose in defensive stability. Trent more than makes up for it going forward.

    He wasn't benched against United either he was recovering from an injury in which he'd not started in 4 games. Its like saying Martial was benched if he doesn't start against us :D

    I agree with this, he's not a Moreno level liability and he more than makes up for it with his offensive output, but he's not not a liability defensively as many suggest either.
  • Sercs
    19010 posts World Class
    Gomez doesn’t give that much defensively from RB and takes away so much attacking ability when Trent is dropped.

    He’s not a liability defensively as per say, he’s just always up past the wingers 😂
  • Kellnerr
    3413 posts National Call-Up
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?
  • tilen11
    5899 posts Big Money Move
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    +1. Though I do have to say that there are many great fullbacks in the world but there arent many that would fit into our style of play.
  • Pxul_
    9313 posts League Winner
    Would be good to see this in a pointless cup game, having Hoever in the RB position and TAA at RCM.

    Just to see what kind of a difference it is.
  • TakeItSlow
    8726 posts League Winner
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.

    No he wasn't though, that's as a team. Last season he lost more duels than he won. Won 91 and lost 96. He lost a lot more aerial battles than he won, 23 lost to 9 won. Successful 50/50's stuck at 14.

    If we use Walker, the league winning full back last season as a comparison.

    Kyle Walker won 117 duels and lost 82, he had 18 successful 50/50's and won 45 aerial duels whilst only losing 25.

    Its worth noting theres only a 3cm height difference between the pair.

    Trent isn't horrific defensively, he's just distinctly average.
  • arsenalap
    7598 posts League Winner
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.
  • LFC Simon 98
    19523 posts World Class
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.

    No he wasn't though, that's as a team. Last season he lost more duels than he won. Won 91 and lost 96. He lost a lot more aerial battles than he won, 23 lost to 9 won. Successful 50/50's stuck at 14.

    If we use Walker, the league winning full back last season as a comparison.

    Kyle Walker won 117 duels and lost 82, he had 18 successful 50/50's and won 45 aerial duels whilst only losing 25.

    Its worth noting theres only a 3cm height difference between the pair.

    Trent isn't horrific defensively, he's just distinctly average.

    Walker is a much better athlete than Trent in terms of power which obvs makes a big difference in terms of 50/50 and duels tho.

    I’m not saying he’s great defensively, just he’s not awful.
  • TakeItSlow
    8726 posts League Winner
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.

    No he wasn't though, that's as a team. Last season he lost more duels than he won. Won 91 and lost 96. He lost a lot more aerial battles than he won, 23 lost to 9 won. Successful 50/50's stuck at 14.

    If we use Walker, the league winning full back last season as a comparison.

    Kyle Walker won 117 duels and lost 82, he had 18 successful 50/50's and won 45 aerial duels whilst only losing 25.

    Its worth noting theres only a 3cm height difference between the pair.

    Trent isn't horrific defensively, he's just distinctly average.

    Walker is a much better athlete than Trent in terms of power which obvs makes a big difference in terms of 50/50 and duels tho.

    I’m not saying he’s great defensively, just he’s not awful.

    Oh no he's not awful, but if he wasn't such a good attacking player in such a good system then he would be just another right back.
  • tilen11
    5899 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 2019
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent. The only reason he was utilized as a RB after was because Germany lacked players for that position and he was talented enough to learn and play that. If Germany had a solid RB at the time he would probably never play there and would be utilized as a CB and CDM.
  • arsenalap
    7598 posts League Winner
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent.

    Yh, but that was the point, he is better defensively than Trent. He plays CM because he has so much to his game.

    Trent isnt really a good comparison imo because he is better staying as a RB.
  • tilen11
    5899 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent.

    Yh, but that was the point, he is better defensively than Trent. He plays CM because he has so much to his game.

    Trent isnt really a good comparison imo because he is better staying as a RB.

    Trent has exceptional passing ability, vision, isnt bad defensively and isnt afraid to go forward. He has everything needed for a great CM but like it was mentioned numerous times, he is a world class RB and should stay one.
  • tilen11
    5899 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent.

    Yh, but that was the point, he is better defensively than Trent. He plays CM because he has so much to his game.

    Trent isnt really a good comparison imo because he is better staying as a RB.

    He also plays as a midfielder because thats what he played since he was a kid, its his natural position. Its not like he learned to play there in one day.
  • arsenalap
    7598 posts League Winner
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent.

    Yh, but that was the point, he is better defensively than Trent. He plays CM because he has so much to his game.

    Trent isnt really a good comparison imo because he is better staying as a RB.

    Trent has exceptional passing ability, vision, isnt bad defensively and isnt afraid to go forward. He has everything needed for a great CM but like it was mentioned numerous times, he is a world class RB and should stay one.

    I think he could do a job at CM, and be a good player. I think he can be a fantastic RB though.

    I think Kimmich is a fantastic RB, and a fantastic CM. The main difference between the two is mentality, positioning and awareness of danger. Kimmich is in a different league.

    Doesn't matter really, I just am saying I dont think it's a direct comparison.

    Trent is young still anyway, has a lot of time and room to improve and I'm sure he will.
  • SDoofus
    6430 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 2019
    wth22 wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    There’s so much wrong with the stuff that’s being said in here.

    First of all, it’s an absolute myth that TAA is weak defensively. Yeah, he gets beat every now and then, but so does every other fullback in the League.

    Secondly, TAA doesn’t get “targeted”. Opposition teams naturally gravitate away from the side VVD plays, which happens to be where TAA is.

    As for those games you’ve cherry picked, @wth22...

    He did start against City away, maybe you’re thinking of the home game?

    He was also benched against Bournemouth and Huddersfield, so it wasn’t just the “biggest games”.

    Speaking of big games, last season alone, he started against Chelsea at home and away, Spurs at home and away, Arsenal home and away and City away in the PL and in the CL, he started against PSG at home, Napoli at home and away, Bayern Munich at home and away, Barcelona at home and Spurs in the final.

    This season, he’s started against Napoli away, Chelsea away, Chelsea in the Super Cup and Arsenal at home. Every single big game we’ve had so far, bar the Community Shield, which he played 67 minutes of.

    You can bet your bottom dollar he’ll be starting against United next Sunday.

    It’s a joke that you’ve cherry picked the few that he didn’t start in, tbh. Confirmation bias.

    Yeah my bad, he was benched for City at home. Gomez was out for the away game (and most of the other big games you've mentioned last season) so Klopp didn't really have a defensive RB alternatives to bench TAA in.

    The proportion of big games he missed vs small games (Bournemouth and Husdersfield) is gigantic.

    So is the proportion of big games benched for vs big games started... I've already typed it all out, but I will do it again...

    2017/18 to now...

    Benched:
    Man City home
    Man United away
    PSG away
    Barcelona away
    Man City Community Shield

    A grand total of FIVE games, and in none of them, did we seem to benefit from not using TAA. A miserable W0 D1 L4.

    Started:
    City away
    Chelsea home
    Chelsea away
    Spurs home
    Spurs away
    Arsenal home
    Arsenal away
    PSG home
    Napoli home
    Napoli away
    Bayern home
    Bayern away
    Barcelona home
    Spurs CL final
    Chelsea away
    Arsenal home
    Chelsea Super Cup
    Napoli away

    A grand total of EIGHTEEN games.

    So that's 18 vs 5.

    It's a stupid argument.
  • SDoofus
    6430 posts Big Money Move
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.

    No he wasn't though, that's as a team. Last season he lost more duels than he won. Won 91 and lost 96. He lost a lot more aerial battles than he won, 23 lost to 9 won. Successful 50/50's stuck at 14.

    If we use Walker, the league winning full back last season as a comparison.

    Kyle Walker won 117 duels and lost 82, he had 18 successful 50/50's and won 45 aerial duels whilst only losing 25.

    Its worth noting theres only a 3cm height difference between the pair.

    Trent isn't horrific defensively, he's just distinctly average.

    Pathetic cherry picking, mate. He may have not done so well in the duels, but Walker does have a massive physical edge over TAA. You've left out some other key defensive stats, such as...

    Tackles:
    TAA: 61
    Walker: 40

    Tackles won:
    TAA: 39
    Walker: 29

    Clearances:
    TAA: 62
    Walker: 50

    Blocks
    TAA: 3
    Walker: 5

    Interceptions
    TAA: 35
    Walker: 36

    Headed clearances
    TAA: 22
    Walker 25

    He doesn't actually compare that badly to the PL winning RB now, does he? And that's having played 311 minutes less than Walker and possessing the bonus of being about 10 times better than Walker going forward.

  • TakeItSlow
    8726 posts League Winner
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    In Trents last 40 premier league games he was 35/4/1 in terms of W/D/L. That gives him 109 points out of 120. If he was ‘awful’ defensively and gets targeted like some claim you’d think he’d have been caught out more often (the games he dropped point in being away vs Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton and lost at City). He’s not as bad as people make out.

    No he wasn't though, that's as a team. Last season he lost more duels than he won. Won 91 and lost 96. He lost a lot more aerial battles than he won, 23 lost to 9 won. Successful 50/50's stuck at 14.

    If we use Walker, the league winning full back last season as a comparison.

    Kyle Walker won 117 duels and lost 82, he had 18 successful 50/50's and won 45 aerial duels whilst only losing 25.

    Its worth noting theres only a 3cm height difference between the pair.

    Trent isn't horrific defensively, he's just distinctly average.

    Pathetic cherry picking, mate. He may have not done so well in the duels, but Walker does have a massive physical edge over TAA. You've left out some other key defensive stats, such as...

    Tackles:
    TAA: 61
    Walker: 40

    Tackles won:
    TAA: 39
    Walker: 29

    Clearances:
    TAA: 62
    Walker: 50

    Blocks
    TAA: 3
    Walker: 5

    Interceptions
    TAA: 35
    Walker: 36

    Headed clearances
    TAA: 22
    Walker 25

    He doesn't actually compare that badly to the PL winning RB now, does he? And that's having played 311 minutes less than Walker and possessing the bonus of being about 10 times better than Walker going forward.

    So he's worse than Walker defensively, who I don't really rate as a right back and was pretty average last season. Worse tackle % and only wins in clearances :joy:

    Thank you for backing up my point.
  • tilen11
    5899 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    tilen11 wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Kellnerr wrote: »
    Trent and Kimmich are actually very similar. Both started their careers in CM and were pushed into RB where they developed into (world) class players. Kimmich has been playing in midfield again, firstly for Germany and now for Bayern too, at times. Both are shaky at the back aswell at times. The German and Munich fans rather have him in RB though, simply because he is one of the best in that position and because they have good options in midfield aswell.
    And they have a point - why move a player who is one of the best in his position when really good full backs are a rarity anyways, whereas you have loads of great CMs.

    What do I rather have? Trent at RB and Havertz in midfield or Trent in midfield and someone like, idk, Pereira at RB?

    Kimmich is better defensively than Trent, he is very smart.

    But Kimmich is just too talented to play RB, he can do everything. Literally a Lahm regen almost.

    But ye I agree with you about the rest.

    Tbh where it would help most is England rather than Liverpool.

    If we are to compare Kimmich and Trent defensively it has to be said that Kimmich was playing for the majority of his 1st season as a CB when Pep brought him from Leipzig. He also made a debut for Germany as a CB when they lost against Slovakia if i remember correctly, so he did way more defending on professional level than Trent.

    Yh, but that was the point, he is better defensively than Trent. He plays CM because he has so much to his game.

    Trent isnt really a good comparison imo because he is better staying as a RB.

    Trent has exceptional passing ability, vision, isnt bad defensively and isnt afraid to go forward. He has everything needed for a great CM but like it was mentioned numerous times, he is a world class RB and should stay one.

    I think he could do a job at CM, and be a good player. I think he can be a fantastic RB though.

    I think Kimmich is a fantastic RB, and a fantastic CM. The main difference between the two is mentality, positioning and awareness of danger. Kimmich is in a different league.

    Doesn't matter really, I just am saying I dont think it's a direct comparison.

    Trent is young still anyway, has a lot of time and room to improve and I'm sure he will.

    He should be in another league. He is 3 years older, has more experience, has played RB, CB, CM, RM, CDM position on professional level in a top tier league. Sure he has to be in another league.
  • SDoofus
    6430 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 2019
    Oh, and let me add this, as it seems to get forgotten these days...

    He's TWENTY ONE years old, and has only been twenty one for 5 days!

    He's still a baby in the footballing world, yet he is up there in the conversation amongst the best RBs in the world.
  • arsenalap
    7598 posts League Winner
    I mean I literally said at the bottom of my post he is young and will still improve :D
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