First cheat encountered

Nokturnl
52 posts Park Captain
edited September 22
Went 1 up and game ended instantly, same ol rubbish. EA will never fix it. Ruins the whole year. I lost points too.

https://ibb.co/nbzGZn1 - Image after DC

Comments

  • Nokturnl wrote: »
    Went 1 up and game ended instantly, same ol rubbish. EA will never fix it. Ruins the whole year. I lost points too.

    https://ibb.co/nbzGZn1 - Image after DC

    Has happened 6-7 times last 10 games for me. Also happens when opponent is up, so I get at LOSS for a DC from my opponents part
  • Nokturnl
    52 posts Park Captain
    Will go back to PES if it is a regular thing
  • God that's annoying, happened to me all the time in last FIFA.
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    the famous cheater already released his software

  • Reulol
    90 posts Park Captain
    why they cant implant anti cheat software its killing me what a bunch of annyoing company they are..
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    they are busy making pack promos, so people buy fifa points

    shady company...
  • mk18
    54 posts Park Captain
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.
  • Reulol
    90 posts Park Captain
    edited September 25
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool
  • mk18
    54 posts Park Captain
    Reulol wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool

    Thats true yeah.
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Reulol wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool

    Is not that simple as you might think....

    I think the way they developed the game, makes it harder to implement an anti-cheat without changing a lot of core things...

    That's probably the main reason...

    So what they do instead, is to put some poor people querying the database and checking logs to ban people, which most likely they will do in the beginning of the game, so everybody thinks there is an AC going on, but in fact, after a few weeks it's all free to carnival again.
  • mk18
    54 posts Park Captain
    edited September 26
    hhoverflow wrote: »
    Reulol wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool

    Is not that simple as you might think....

    I think the way they developed the game, makes it harder to implement an anti-cheat without changing a lot of core things...

    That's probably the main reason...

    So what they do instead, is to put some poor people querying the database and checking logs to ban people, which most likely they will do in the beginning of the game, so everybody thinks there is an AC going on, but in fact, after a few weeks it's all free to carnival again.

    Thats bollocks. It isn't hard at all recognize dll injecting or tampering with memory like cheat engine does, and then either let the game shutdown or instantly ban people. You don't need to change "core things" whatever you consider that. And especially a company like EA should find a way to get rid of -at least- these easy ways of manipulating the game.
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    mk18 wrote: »
    hhoverflow wrote: »
    Reulol wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool

    Is not that simple as you might think....

    I think the way they developed the game, makes it harder to implement an anti-cheat without changing a lot of core things...

    That's probably the main reason...

    So what they do instead, is to put some poor people querying the database and checking logs to ban people, which most likely they will do in the beginning of the game, so everybody thinks there is an AC going on, but in fact, after a few weeks it's all free to carnival again.

    Thats bollocks. It isn't hard at all recognize dll injecting or tampering with memory like cheat engine does, and then either let the game shutdown or instantly ban people. You don't need to change "core things" whatever you consider that. And especially a company like EA should find a way to get rid of -at least- these easy ways of manipulating the game.

    Like I said, I think is not that simple. You have to see the bigger picture before say that something is easy. It's clearly easy to recognize memory editing. But is it easy to recognize that and make the code work also for Consoles, since the codebase is the same? Is it easy for Sony and Microsoft to approve that on the store? Is it easy to do and maintain only in 1 codebase or they would need to fork for a PC version and a Console version, and then all the future things would need to be implemented twice?

    Do something is easy. Do something inside an existing eco-system is extremely complex. It's the typical story of a boss that asks for a button and says "it's just a button", without thinking about all the consequences that this button can have.

    Probably the only way to fully protect your game from memory editing is making it ONLINE only and processing vital values server-side. That would require basically the game to be done again from the scratch and might not even be viable because of lag, packet loss, etc. It would be too much bandwidth.

    Ok, then what options EA has?

    1 - Hire a professional company that would implement an AC on their game. That probably has a high cost and maybe core things would have to be adapted/changed.

    2 - Implement themselves. If the collateral damage of this was low and easy as you think, I'm 100% sure they would have done it already, since all EA can think is about *profit*.

    3 - Hire some poor people that their job is to query the database to look for inconsistent data.

    And of course, keep in mind that :

    - Probably the codebase of the game is quite old, since the game is always the same every year, with a few differences on menus, features, a few mechanic things and etc. (Or do you think that every year they make the game from the scratch? :D)
    - The core codebase is most likely the same for Console and PC, which makes it a very hard to change. The AC has to be implemented on that code and not on the menus and team selection screen, which is what every year they change to give the feeling that the game is "new".
    - Their main goal is to have profit. So why would EA spend lots of time, money and resources in something that is clearly their lowest profit base? (just compare the number of players on console and on PC, and also the amount of Fifa Points bought in them).

    So trust me, to do any implementation of AC it would require lots of resource, money and time, and it simply don't worth it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this cancer company that EA is and I also think it's an absurd to have this problem for like 6, 7 years and never speak about it.

    It's just that too long time has passed and for me that's enough to realize that there is not much they can do right now. Probably when their software engineers made the concept they didn't think about it and unfortunately now it's too late.

    Draft is the perfect example of that. Before, the hack changed the score and finished the match, so you ended up with a victory. That doesn't work anymore since last Fifa 19. So what was the solution to hack again? Instead of change the score, change the ball position to travel to the goal. Boom! It worked like a charm!

    They are implementing "crap junior solutions" that in less than a day somebody finds an alternative to hack again. Now imagine the mess in the code with all those junior solutions...
  • mk18
    54 posts Park Captain
    hhoverflow wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    hhoverflow wrote: »
    Reulol wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    its cool yea but cant they understand that if they will implant the cheapest even anti cheat out there it will reduce their time worrying about it although not completely,but still...most of the cheats are based on cheat engine which that even my grandma will manage to block them with a proper anti cheat tool

    Is not that simple as you might think....

    I think the way they developed the game, makes it harder to implement an anti-cheat without changing a lot of core things...

    That's probably the main reason...

    So what they do instead, is to put some poor people querying the database and checking logs to ban people, which most likely they will do in the beginning of the game, so everybody thinks there is an AC going on, but in fact, after a few weeks it's all free to carnival again.

    Thats bollocks. It isn't hard at all recognize dll injecting or tampering with memory like cheat engine does, and then either let the game shutdown or instantly ban people. You don't need to change "core things" whatever you consider that. And especially a company like EA should find a way to get rid of -at least- these easy ways of manipulating the game.

    Like I said, I think is not that simple. You have to see the bigger picture before say that something is easy. It's clearly easy to recognize memory editing. But is it easy to recognize that and make the code work also for Consoles, since the codebase is the same? Is it easy for Sony and Microsoft to approve that on the store? Is it easy to do and maintain only in 1 codebase or they would need to fork for a PC version and a Console version, and then all the future things would need to be implemented twice?

    Do something is easy. Do something inside an existing eco-system is extremely complex. It's the typical story of a boss that asks for a button and says "it's just a button", without thinking about all the consequences that this button can have.

    Probably the only way to fully protect your game from memory editing is making it ONLINE only and processing vital values server-side. That would require basically the game to be done again from the scratch and might not even be viable because of lag, packet loss, etc. It would be too much bandwidth.

    Ok, then what options EA has?

    1 - Hire a professional company that would implement an AC on their game. That probably has a high cost and maybe core things would have to be adapted/changed.

    2 - Implement themselves. If the collateral damage of this was low and easy as you think, I'm 100% sure they would have done it already, since all EA can think is about *profit*.

    3 - Hire some poor people that their job is to query the database to look for inconsistent data.

    And of course, keep in mind that :

    - Probably the codebase of the game is quite old, since the game is always the same every year, with a few differences on menus, features, a few mechanic things and etc. (Or do you think that every year they make the game from the scratch? :D)
    - The core codebase is most likely the same for Console and PC, which makes it a very hard to change. The AC has to be implemented on that code and not on the menus and team selection screen, which is what every year they change to give the feeling that the game is "new".
    - Their main goal is to have profit. So why would EA spend lots of time, money and resources in something that is clearly their lowest profit base? (just compare the number of players on console and on PC, and also the amount of Fifa Points bought in them).

    So trust me, to do any implementation of AC it would require lots of resource, money and time, and it simply don't worth it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this cancer company that EA is and I also think it's an absurd to have this problem for like 6, 7 years and never speak about it.

    It's just that too long time has passed and for me that's enough to realize that there is not much they can do right now. Probably when their software engineers made the concept they didn't think about it and unfortunately now it's too late.

    Draft is the perfect example of that. Before, the hack changed the score and finished the match, so you ended up with a victory. That doesn't work anymore since last Fifa 19. So what was the solution to hack again? Instead of change the score, change the ball position to travel to the goal. Boom! It worked like a charm!

    They are implementing "crap junior solutions" that in less than a day somebody finds an alternative to hack again. Now imagine the mess in the code with all those junior solutions...

    You are talking to someone whos been doing basically that for almost 15 years now. First of all theres no need to implement an anti cheat INTO the actual game code. If you can understand that you have a good basis on why its not that hard. You also dont need extra protection for consoles because memory editing isnt even possible. The biggest problems are with the PC version. There are of course glitches and stuff but you cant protect against poorly written gamecode. (To be fair there certain ways to figure out cheating on consoles as well but it is so rare that THERE is really no sense in it to invest in the software and of course maintanence) Since you only need an external programm like Punkbuster, BattlEye, VAC for example that checks if extra code is injected into the game or blacklisted code changes have been done: YES IT IS SIMPLE. EA has used Punkbuster in the past and they could just use it in FIFA aswell. That of course doesnt guarantee that 100% of cheats are detected, but these simple and poorly written programms are shut out completely. And all that would need is (maybe? I dont know. Buy the license for one of these programms if they dont have it anymore ((excuding VAC of course)) wich cant be the problem.
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    mk18 wrote: »
    You are talking to someone whos been doing basically that for almost 15 years now. First of all theres no need to implement an anti cheat INTO the actual game code. If you can understand that you have a good basis on why its not that hard. You also dont need extra protection for consoles because memory editing isnt even possible. The biggest problems are with the PC version. There are of course glitches and stuff but you cant protect against poorly written gamecode. (To be fair there certain ways to figure out cheating on consoles as well but it is so rare that THERE is really no sense in it to invest in the software and of course maintanence) Since you only need an external programm like Punkbuster, BattlEye, VAC for example that checks if extra code is injected into the game or blacklisted code changes have been done: YES IT IS SIMPLE. EA has used Punkbuster in the past and they could just use it in FIFA aswell. That of course doesnt guarantee that 100% of cheats are detected, but these simple and poorly written programms are shut out completely. And all that would need is (maybe? I dont know. Buy the license for one of these programms if they dont have it anymore ((excuding VAC of course)) wich cant be the problem.

    If you have been doing that for a long time, then you should know that in this field, it can look extremely simple when in fact is not that simple (I'm in IT too), to the point that the cost they will have with it, doesn't compensate the resources and investment.

    Also, Fifa launches through Origin, which is an utterly **** platform. Do you know about their contracts? Do you know if it's ok to add an extra layer through Origin?

    Also, you missed my point with console. Do you think that they have a Fifa version PC and another one for console? Is the same game dude... Fifa PC is a port from console.

    Like I said a few times in this thread already, you guys are missing the big picture, especially when is about a company that only care about profit and "**** the rest".
  • DSD27
    5709 posts Big Money Move
    Nokturnl wrote: »
    Will go back to PES if it is a regular thing

    PES has better gameplay, but the fun factor isn't that great...
  • Springveldt
    4683 posts National Call-Up
    hhoverflow wrote: »
    mk18 wrote: »
    You are talking to someone whos been doing basically that for almost 15 years now. First of all theres no need to implement an anti cheat INTO the actual game code. If you can understand that you have a good basis on why its not that hard. You also dont need extra protection for consoles because memory editing isnt even possible. The biggest problems are with the PC version. There are of course glitches and stuff but you cant protect against poorly written gamecode. (To be fair there certain ways to figure out cheating on consoles as well but it is so rare that THERE is really no sense in it to invest in the software and of course maintanence) Since you only need an external programm like Punkbuster, BattlEye, VAC for example that checks if extra code is injected into the game or blacklisted code changes have been done: YES IT IS SIMPLE. EA has used Punkbuster in the past and they could just use it in FIFA aswell. That of course doesnt guarantee that 100% of cheats are detected, but these simple and poorly written programms are shut out completely. And all that would need is (maybe? I dont know. Buy the license for one of these programms if they dont have it anymore ((excuding VAC of course)) wich cant be the problem.

    If you have been doing that for a long time, then you should know that in this field, it can look extremely simple when in fact is not that simple (I'm in IT too), to the point that the cost they will have with it, doesn't compensate the resources and investment.

    Also, Fifa launches through Origin, which is an utterly **** platform. Do you know about their contracts? Do you know if it's ok to add an extra layer through Origin?

    Also, you missed my point with console. Do you think that they have a Fifa version PC and another one for console? Is the same game dude... Fifa PC is a port from console.

    Like I said a few times in this thread already, you guys are missing the big picture, especially when is about a company that only care about profit and "**** the rest".
    Origin has nothing to do with it, it's just a launcher. It's only there to DRM your FIFA version and sell you EA crap. No idea why you are bringing it into it.

    The code base will more than likely be branched for each version, they won't be the exact same.

    The PC version just needs a stand alone service which acts as an anti-cheat. It would require development resources that EA are obviously not will to spend. The fact you can use cheat engine to modify the memory and the "server" actually accepts the result without validating from the other client is laughable. I'd be embarrassed if I was a dev on that team.

    Just as @mk18 is saying, I've been a software engineer for over 20 years now. The fact that EA haven't developed a solution to stop people using cheat engine is nothing short of a disgrace.
  • hhoverflow
    133 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Origin has nothing to do with it, it's just a launcher. It's only there to DRM your FIFA version and sell you EA crap. No idea why you are bringing it into it.

    The code base will more than likely be branched for each version, they won't be the exact same.

    The PC version just needs a stand alone service which acts as an anti-cheat. It would require development resources that EA are obviously not will to spend. The fact you can use cheat engine to modify the memory and the "server" actually accepts the result without validating from the other client is laughable. I'd be embarrassed if I was a dev on that team.

    Just as @mk18 is saying, I've been a software engineer for over 20 years now. The fact that EA haven't developed a solution to stop people using cheat engine is nothing short of a disgrace.

    Depending on the implementation of the AC, Origin might be relevant. If you get VAC as example, it's strongly bound with Steam. And there are lots of things in game that are bound to origin also (like origin in game, be able to buy fifa points in game only when you have origin in game enabled, and so on). I'm 100% sure that Origin has to be touched for that, and you can confirm that reading about other games that are in Origin. One classic example was Battlefield, which a few editions ago had it's own launcher (besides origin) just because of the AC, as Origin couldn't handle what was needed. There was even a huge topic on Reddit about it at the time.

    Other than that, you guys are just saying what I said in my first post:

    To really validate or challenge packages, the codebase most likely would have to be divided. Now imagine that code that most likely is a huge mess because it was done a long time ago, everybody that worked with it at the time left the company already and nobody wants too touch because it's too much in the core of the game.

    That's old, but is the image I found.
    3xron3dp2l811.png

    Is it a good idea to split the code and spend resources to make less than 1% of people happy? Not a very hard question for the PO to decide.

    Other than that, there are so many variables that we just don't know and can have impact in such a decision like that.

    So yeah, it's sad that EA won't do nothing about it, but is not extremely hard to understand why.

    By the way, not that this is extremely relevant, but I'm a sw engineer too.
  • mk18 wrote: »
    I dont like it either. but from my experience they are doing something. Cause its getting less and less over the course of the year still not great of course but it will get better.

    Getting worse for me.
  • orly
    15 posts Ball Boy
    They spend more resources making the game uncrackable than stopping these cheaters. Joke company
  • VARD67876
    227 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Nobody but cheaters buys FIFA on the pc for FUT and if you don't want to play FUT you might as well pirate it.

    they've killed thier own game on the platform to the point it's probably not even worth releasing a PC version.
  • Retro1989
    4552 posts National Call-Up
    This is why i switched to console this year for Fifa.
  • Nokturnl
    52 posts Park Captain
    I haven't touched Fifa since posting this, is it still as bad?
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