Manchester United Football Club

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  • SDoofus
    5647 posts Big Money Move
    edited August 29
    Couchy wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Lindelof was one of the best CB’s in the league last season :joy:

    One of the best CB’s in the league, one of the best Gk’s in the league... but conceded more goals than Arsenal? Who’s defence was apparently disgraceful.

    That doesn’t add up to me.

    It's not exactly rocket science. Stick anyone in a defence with Phil Jones and Ashley Young and the team will concede goals. Hence why we addressed those positions this past summer.

    I’m not buying that one. Mark is right, Lindelof stood out because he was amongst that, but he’s still fairly average. The mistake against palace proves that.

    lmao... so what does the mistake from Maguire vs Palace say about him?

    ?

    If it’s a mistake that a Lindelof was in the right position but ultimately lost a header, it’s 100% a mistake for Maguire to be 20 yards off, not providing cover and ultimately allowing Ayew to run straight between Lindelof and Maguire. This isn’t even a pro Lindelof or Maguire debate (before you try and turn it into one because it’s me) the two of them were both equally at fault for that goal.

    I did chuckle at how quickly you spawned as soon as Maguire received criticism.

    The only mistake Maguire made was trusting Lindelof to win that header. Don’t know how you can claim they are equally at fault 😂

    It’s literally Maguire’s job as Lindelof’s partner to cover each other. Maguire watched and allowed Ayew to freely run through...and that was before the ball even reached Lindelof. That should never happen. He should always be tracking that run just in case.

    So yes. Both are at fault. But as I said Saturday, those things should improve as they play together.

    Agreed, and VVD's first few games was full of stuff like this, with a lot of rival fans quick to slate him as an expensive flop. I remember him getting destroyed for heading a corner right at Swansea's player to score from it, and also for being all over the shop against West Brom when they beat us at at Anfield in the League Cup. They need time to build an understanding.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    3095 posts National Call-Up
    Couchy wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Lindelof was one of the best CB’s in the league last season :joy:

    One of the best CB’s in the league, one of the best Gk’s in the league... but conceded more goals than Arsenal? Who’s defence was apparently disgraceful.

    That doesn’t add up to me.

    It's not exactly rocket science. Stick anyone in a defence with Phil Jones and Ashley Young and the team will concede goals. Hence why we addressed those positions this past summer.

    I’m not buying that one. Mark is right, Lindelof stood out because he was amongst that, but he’s still fairly average. The mistake against palace proves that.

    lmao... so what does the mistake from Maguire vs Palace say about him?

    ?

    If it’s a mistake that a Lindelof was in the right position but ultimately lost a header, it’s 100% a mistake for Maguire to be 20 yards off, not providing cover and ultimately allowing Ayew to run straight between Lindelof and Maguire. This isn’t even a pro Lindelof or Maguire debate (before you try and turn it into one because it’s me) the two of them were both equally at fault for that goal.

    I did chuckle at how quickly you spawned as soon as Maguire received criticism.

    The only mistake Maguire made was trusting Lindelof to win that header. Don’t know how you can claim they are equally at fault 😂

    It’s literally Maguire’s job as Lindelof’s partner to cover each other. Maguire watched and allowed Ayew to freely run through...and that was before the ball even reached Lindelof. That should never happen. He should always be tracking that run just in case.

    If it was flipped, Lindelof would 100% be getting criticized for not covering Maguire.

    So yes. Both are at fault. But as I said Saturday, those things should improve as they play together.

    Richie is spot on. Both equally at fault. You can't concede a goal every time a defender loses a header from a long ball, it's the job of covering defenders to cover.
  • SDoofus
    5647 posts Big Money Move
    edited August 29
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Incorrect.

    Before we became as good as we currently are, players like Gomez, Matip, Robertson, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Milner, Wijnaldum, etc were probably looked at in the same way you're currently looking at Shaw and Lindelof.

    They are all a part of a CL winning team and a team that finished on 97 points in the PL. They are all a part of a team that's expected to compete with City again this season.

    United are doing it right, so far. Getting rid of as much deadwood/bloat as they can, whilst acquiring very good signings like Maguire and AWB. Do that over a couple of summer transfer windows, addressing different areas of the squad, and they could very much have a title-challenging team with the likes of Lindelof and Shaw involved. And as much as I argued against it the other week, the likes of McTominay too. So long as they are surrounded by proper quality, which is what I think they're striving to do in the market now.

    You can’t compare the two situations. Liverpool built an attack first consisting of Mane, Firmino and Salah which blitzed teams and got them into the CL. After that they attracted the correct players for each position in VVD etc to rebuild the defence and midfield.

    Uniteds defence alone won’t get them into the CL, after that I can’t see them attracting the attackers they need to push on further.

    I personally think Arsenal’s situation is much more comparable to Liverpool’s a few years back, building a top tier attack first and full backs to fit the system. Then hopefully when we get back into the CL we build from there with a top CB and CDM.

    You can compare the two situations, because they are both a case of a new manager coming in looking to stamp his own style into the team and bring in players that fit that style. Just because Liverpool got the forwards in first, doesn't mean that's the blueprint that everyone has to follow. Everyone knows that it was our defensive signings (Allison, VVD and Fabinho) that made the biggest difference for us, so maybe United have seen the impact that had, and decided to do it the other way round? Considering they already have Martial and Rashford up front. Yeah, it looks like Arsenal are literally trying to copy what we did (bringing in attackers, and also bringing in Tierney who keeps getting compared to us bringing in Robertson), but that doesn't mean to say it will work. Your attack is extremely different to ours anyway, we have 2 proper wide forwards who cut in on their strong feet and a tireless false 9 who makes everything happen. You have an unproven winger from a crap League on one side, an ageing striker playing out of position on the other, and Lacazette is nothing like Firmino, so cool your jets, because I don't think your attack is actually as good as you think it is, even though it's better on paper than your competitors, for now. United could bring in Sancho and suddenly, their front 3 pisses all over yours.

    Behave would you. We were the third highest scorers in the league last season and added Pepe, our attack is just as good as we think and just as good as everyone knows from last season, just adding Nelson and Pepe as proper wingers. Our systems are different but the concept is the same. Also adding Tierney and Bellerin coming back from injury just aids our attack.

    Downplay it all you want, Auba was top scorer in his first full season mostly playing from the left. Laca is huge for us just like Firmino is for you and we’ve added Pepe. Salah was just as proven as Pepe was when he joined Liverpool.

    Anyway, United can do it back to front if they want but for me the key to getting CL football is having that attack that can really push you into it.

    :D

    Edit: If the key is attack, why didn't you make top 4 last season? You scored more than your top 4 rivals yet Chelsea and Spurs both finished ahead of you.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    32015 posts National Team Captain
    SDoofus wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Lindelof was one of the best CB’s in the league last season :joy:

    One of the best CB’s in the league, one of the best Gk’s in the league... but conceded more goals than Arsenal? Who’s defence was apparently disgraceful.

    That doesn’t add up to me.

    It's not exactly rocket science. Stick anyone in a defence with Phil Jones and Ashley Young and the team will concede goals. Hence why we addressed those positions this past summer.

    I’m not buying that one. Mark is right, Lindelof stood out because he was amongst that, but he’s still fairly average. The mistake against palace proves that.

    lmao... so what does the mistake from Maguire vs Palace say about him?

    ?

    If it’s a mistake that a Lindelof was in the right position but ultimately lost a header, it’s 100% a mistake for Maguire to be 20 yards off, not providing cover and ultimately allowing Ayew to run straight between Lindelof and Maguire. This isn’t even a pro Lindelof or Maguire debate (before you try and turn it into one because it’s me) the two of them were both equally at fault for that goal.

    I did chuckle at how quickly you spawned as soon as Maguire received criticism.

    The only mistake Maguire made was trusting Lindelof to win that header. Don’t know how you can claim they are equally at fault 😂

    It’s literally Maguire’s job as Lindelof’s partner to cover each other. Maguire watched and allowed Ayew to freely run through...and that was before the ball even reached Lindelof. That should never happen. He should always be tracking that run just in case.

    So yes. Both are at fault. But as I said Saturday, those things should improve as they play together.

    Agreed, and VVD's first few games was full of stuff like this, with a lot of rival fans quick to slate him as an expensive flop. I remember him getting destroyed for heading a corner right at Swansea's player to score from it, and also for being all over the shop against West Brom when they beat us at at Anfield in the League Cup. They need time to build an understanding.

    I remember last season I made the whole “well he wouldn’t have been put in the situation is [insert player name here] didn’t make the mistake” and I was slated for it.
  • ViVaWhom
    8237 posts League Winner
    to me AWB was more at fault than Maguire, but both werent great, AWBs man is the one that challenges the header, since Lindelof had to go to AWBs man, AWB should realize and cover for knock down

    Lets not forget, the goal did happen at a time Shaw was injured
  • Wyojasond
    11951 posts Has That Special Something
    Ahmer50x wrote: »

    Goddamnit 😂 that’s what I get for taking a hit. Sadly, not even sure I have faith that Ole will play Greenwood at this point. Guess I get to stress over my fantasy team the next few days 🤦‍♂️
  • TakeItSlow
    7505 posts League Winner
    edited August 29
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Incorrect.

    Before we became as good as we currently are, players like Gomez, Matip, Robertson, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Milner, Wijnaldum, etc were probably looked at in the same way you're currently looking at Shaw and Lindelof.

    They are all a part of a CL winning team and a team that finished on 97 points in the PL. They are all a part of a team that's expected to compete with City again this season.

    United are doing it right, so far. Getting rid of as much deadwood/bloat as they can, whilst acquiring very good signings like Maguire and AWB. Do that over a couple of summer transfer windows, addressing different areas of the squad, and they could very much have a title-challenging team with the likes of Lindelof and Shaw involved. And as much as I argued against it the other week, the likes of McTominay too. So long as they are surrounded by proper quality, which is what I think they're striving to do in the market now.

    You can’t compare the two situations. Liverpool built an attack first consisting of Mane, Firmino and Salah which blitzed teams and got them into the CL. After that they attracted the correct players for each position in VVD etc to rebuild the defence and midfield.

    Uniteds defence alone won’t get them into the CL, after that I can’t see them attracting the attackers they need to push on further.

    I personally think Arsenal’s situation is much more comparable to Liverpool’s a few years back, building a top tier attack first and full backs to fit the system. Then hopefully when we get back into the CL we build from there with a top CB and CDM.

    You can compare the two situations, because they are both a case of a new manager coming in looking to stamp his own style into the team and bring in players that fit that style. Just because Liverpool got the forwards in first, doesn't mean that's the blueprint that everyone has to follow. Everyone knows that it was our defensive signings (Allison, VVD and Fabinho) that made the biggest difference for us, so maybe United have seen the impact that had, and decided to do it the other way round? Considering they already have Martial and Rashford up front. Yeah, it looks like Arsenal are literally trying to copy what we did (bringing in attackers, and also bringing in Tierney who keeps getting compared to us bringing in Robertson), but that doesn't mean to say it will work. Your attack is extremely different to ours anyway, we have 2 proper wide forwards who cut in on their strong feet and a tireless false 9 who makes everything happen. You have an unproven winger from a crap League on one side, an ageing striker playing out of position on the other, and Lacazette is nothing like Firmino, so cool your jets, because I don't think your attack is actually as good as you think it is, even though it's better on paper than your competitors, for now. United could bring in Sancho and suddenly, their front 3 pisses all over yours.

    Behave would you. We were the third highest scorers in the league last season and added Pepe, our attack is just as good as we think and just as good as everyone knows from last season, just adding Nelson and Pepe as proper wingers. Our systems are different but the concept is the same. Also adding Tierney and Bellerin coming back from injury just aids our attack.

    Downplay it all you want, Auba was top scorer in his first full season mostly playing from the left. Laca is huge for us just like Firmino is for you and we’ve added Pepe. Salah was just as proven as Pepe was when he joined Liverpool.

    Anyway, United can do it back to front if they want but for me the key to getting CL football is having that attack that can really push you into it.

    :D

    Edit: If the key is attack, why didn't you make top 4 last season? You scored more than your top 4 rivals yet Chelsea and Spurs both finished ahead of you.

    Salah the season before he moved to Liverpool - 15 goals and 11 assists.

    Pepe the season he moved to us - 22 goals and 11 assists.

    It was the balance to our attack. We had no wingers in the squad and also didn’t have a left back who can competently play in a 4. Meaning emery couldn’t play his favoured formation. He was regularly forced into a back 3.

    Yes the front two scored goals but the balance was never there. Hence why it was so important to buy a winger and buy a proper left back.

    Spurs lost 13 games and Chelsea were heavily reliant on hazard. So their defences weren’t really the reason they made top 4 either.
  • Apollo
    15652 posts World Class
    Ahmer50x wrote: »

    We all expected that, I'd say. The only question is how long is Martial out for
  • MarkFromNorwich
    3095 posts National Call-Up
    No excuse for Ole if Greenwood does not play against Southampton!
  • Ahmer50x
    19040 posts World Class
    Greenwood will not play against Southampton, as much as I want him to.

    I fully expect Andreas or Mata to come in at 10, Lingard goes right, James on the left, Rashford up front
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    32015 posts National Team Captain
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    to me AWB was more at fault than Maguire, but both werent great, AWBs man is the one that challenges the header, since Lindelof had to go to AWBs man, AWB should realize and cover for knock down

    Lets not forget, the goal did happen at a time Shaw was injured

    Yeah AWB is arguably up there for sure with being at fault because yeah like you said it was his man. Only thing I’m pointing out about Maguire in that situation is that he’s got to read the situation better and close that gap. He made no effort to close the gap between Lindelof and himself and no effort to track Ayew until he was through on goal.

    Like I said hopefully things like that improve as they play together.
  • SDoofus
    5647 posts Big Money Move
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Incorrect.

    Before we became as good as we currently are, players like Gomez, Matip, Robertson, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Milner, Wijnaldum, etc were probably looked at in the same way you're currently looking at Shaw and Lindelof.

    They are all a part of a CL winning team and a team that finished on 97 points in the PL. They are all a part of a team that's expected to compete with City again this season.

    United are doing it right, so far. Getting rid of as much deadwood/bloat as they can, whilst acquiring very good signings like Maguire and AWB. Do that over a couple of summer transfer windows, addressing different areas of the squad, and they could very much have a title-challenging team with the likes of Lindelof and Shaw involved. And as much as I argued against it the other week, the likes of McTominay too. So long as they are surrounded by proper quality, which is what I think they're striving to do in the market now.

    You can’t compare the two situations. Liverpool built an attack first consisting of Mane, Firmino and Salah which blitzed teams and got them into the CL. After that they attracted the correct players for each position in VVD etc to rebuild the defence and midfield.

    Uniteds defence alone won’t get them into the CL, after that I can’t see them attracting the attackers they need to push on further.

    I personally think Arsenal’s situation is much more comparable to Liverpool’s a few years back, building a top tier attack first and full backs to fit the system. Then hopefully when we get back into the CL we build from there with a top CB and CDM.

    You can compare the two situations, because they are both a case of a new manager coming in looking to stamp his own style into the team and bring in players that fit that style. Just because Liverpool got the forwards in first, doesn't mean that's the blueprint that everyone has to follow. Everyone knows that it was our defensive signings (Allison, VVD and Fabinho) that made the biggest difference for us, so maybe United have seen the impact that had, and decided to do it the other way round? Considering they already have Martial and Rashford up front. Yeah, it looks like Arsenal are literally trying to copy what we did (bringing in attackers, and also bringing in Tierney who keeps getting compared to us bringing in Robertson), but that doesn't mean to say it will work. Your attack is extremely different to ours anyway, we have 2 proper wide forwards who cut in on their strong feet and a tireless false 9 who makes everything happen. You have an unproven winger from a crap League on one side, an ageing striker playing out of position on the other, and Lacazette is nothing like Firmino, so cool your jets, because I don't think your attack is actually as good as you think it is, even though it's better on paper than your competitors, for now. United could bring in Sancho and suddenly, their front 3 pisses all over yours.

    Behave would you. We were the third highest scorers in the league last season and added Pepe, our attack is just as good as we think and just as good as everyone knows from last season, just adding Nelson and Pepe as proper wingers. Our systems are different but the concept is the same. Also adding Tierney and Bellerin coming back from injury just aids our attack.

    Downplay it all you want, Auba was top scorer in his first full season mostly playing from the left. Laca is huge for us just like Firmino is for you and we’ve added Pepe. Salah was just as proven as Pepe was when he joined Liverpool.

    Anyway, United can do it back to front if they want but for me the key to getting CL football is having that attack that can really push you into it.

    :D

    Edit: If the key is attack, why didn't you make top 4 last season? You scored more than your top 4 rivals yet Chelsea and Spurs both finished ahead of you.

    Salah the season before he moved to Liverpool - 15 goals and 11 assists.

    Pepe the season he moved to us - 22 goals and 11 assists.


    It was the balance to our attack. We had no wingers in the squad and also didn’t have a left back who can competently play in a 4. Meaning emery couldn’t play his favoured formation. He was regularly forced into a back 3.

    Yes the front two scored goals but the balance was never there. Hence why it was so important to buy a winger and buy a proper left back.

    Spurs lost 13 games and Chelsea were heavily reliant on hazard. So their defences weren’t really the reason they made top 4 either.

    Salah hit similar numbers the season before as well, unlike Pepe, and also unlike Pepe, he wasn't doing it in an absolute joke League.
  • TakeItSlow
    7505 posts League Winner
    Well that’s Pepe in my side for martial 100% then
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    32015 posts National Team Captain
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Greenwood will not play against Southampton, as much as I want him to.

    I fully expect Andreas or Mata to come in at 10, Lingard goes right, James on the left, Rashford up front


    Yeah fully expecting this. Rather Lingard be on the bench for later in the game and having some pace off the bench.
  • UM4R
    3955 posts Moderator
    couple point for me

    1) on the goal, both Maguire and Lindelof were at fault, but tbh it's to be expected at this stage as we basically have a new back 4 and the cb partnership is still fresh so it takes time to develop the understanding, so I'm not too concerned about this happening so early in to the season . However if at the end of the season similar errors are still happening then it would be a concern.

    2) On Greenwood, we all agree he is a very exciting prospect and want him to play as much as possible. However, i think Ole is right in taking his time and slowly introducing him and the other youngsters into the team. First, the pressure on him will be immense due to hype & him being the only actual recognised striker in the squad (martial & rashford more wingers in my eyes (similar to mane & salah). Secondly, it is much easier to put youngsters in when the whole team is playing well and have that understanding as well as having players around them that they can look up to and who can take the pressure of them.

    Whenever SAF put in youngsters, the squad, on the whole, had enough high-quality players that the pressure wasn't immediately on the youngsters to perform.

    Class of 92 ---> Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona, ince, hughes, bruce.

    Ronaldo / Rooney -- had van Nistelrooy, Giggs ,scholes, solskjaer, rio, keane so again they could develop without pressure as we had enough star names who would win us games, allowing them to have poor games and to an extent less pressure

  • Couchy
    9505 posts League Winner
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.
  • Apollo
    15652 posts World Class
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    We haven't had the press conference yet, have we? That's probably why, someone is bound to ask Ole during that
  • TakeItSlow
    7505 posts League Winner
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    Because of the distance Maguire was from Lindelof in the first place and the lack of anticipation. VVD would’ve been in the perfect position to get across and wouldn’t have been so far away from Lindelof in the first place.

    The gap was gargantuan.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    3095 posts National Call-Up
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    Maguire & AWB do their job and close the gap there is also no goal. Defenders lose headers sometimes....
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    32015 posts National Team Captain
    edited August 29
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    Because if Maguire does his job and spots Ayew’s run and tracks it (regardless of the header), there’s no goal. Because both Maguire and Lindelof failed to do their job in that situation. There’s honestly no excuse for Maguire because he clearly see’s the run of Ayew and doesn’t bother to react. He’s always got to track that run just in case. “Equally” May be a stretch, but they are a partnership and have to cover each other
  • UM4R
    3955 posts Moderator
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    no one said equal fault, clearly Lindelof was more at fault as he should've won that header, but Maguire should've been a lot closer to Lindelof and quicker to get across to stop Ayew. That's how a cb partnership works

    If that was Rio and Vidic, that situation would not have ended in a goal, as whoever was the covering cb would've got across and stopped Ayew
  • SDoofus
    5647 posts Big Money Move
    edited August 29
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    Anticipation.

    Edit: Jose was talking about this on Sky the other day and I found it really interesting to listen to. Saying that the best teams aren't always the ones who attack brilliantly, but the ones who, at every moment, are anticipating turning over possession/losing the ball, and therefore are completely ready for it.
  • Couchy
    9505 posts League Winner
    UM4R wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    no one said equal fault, clearly Lindelof was more at fault as he should've won that header, but Maguire should've been a lot closer to Lindelof and quicker to get across to stop Ayew. That's how a cb partnership works

    If that was Rio and Vidic, that situation would not have ended in a goal, as whoever was the covering cb would've got across and stopped Ayew
    Couchy wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Lindelof was one of the best CB’s in the league last season :joy:

    One of the best CB’s in the league, one of the best Gk’s in the league... but conceded more goals than Arsenal? Who’s defence was apparently disgraceful.

    That doesn’t add up to me.

    It's not exactly rocket science. Stick anyone in a defence with Phil Jones and Ashley Young and the team will concede goals. Hence why we addressed those positions this past summer.

    I’m not buying that one. Mark is right, Lindelof stood out because he was amongst that, but he’s still fairly average. The mistake against palace proves that.

    lmao... so what does the mistake from Maguire vs Palace say about him?

    ?

    If it’s a mistake that a Lindelof was in the right position but ultimately lost a header, it’s 100% a mistake for Maguire to be 20 yards off, not providing cover and ultimately allowing Ayew to run straight between Lindelof and Maguire. This isn’t even a pro Lindelof or Maguire debate (before you try and turn it into one because it’s me) the two of them were both equally at fault for that goal.

    I did chuckle at how quickly you spawned as soon as Maguire received criticism.

    But I’m not going to argue the point anymore. Nothing of major concern, they will learn each other’s weaknesses.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    3095 posts National Call-Up
    Lindelof - forced error, losing a header to the opposition.
    Maguire & AWB - unforced error, not closing gap Lindelof left/covering adequately.

    The latter is worse, imo.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    32015 posts National Team Captain
    Couchy wrote: »
    UM4R wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Lindelof does his job and wins that header then there is no goal. How can you possibly claim equal fault for that!? 🤦🏻‍♂️

    Anyway far more concerning is there ya been given no timeframe on Martials injury.

    no one said equal fault, clearly Lindelof was more at fault as he should've won that header, but Maguire should've been a lot closer to Lindelof and quicker to get across to stop Ayew. That's how a cb partnership works

    If that was Rio and Vidic, that situation would not have ended in a goal, as whoever was the covering cb would've got across and stopped Ayew
    Couchy wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Smalling is arguably better than Lindelof. Better in the air, 1v1 defending and much quicker. Has to rotate round the ball when he passes it though. Big mistake letting him go as the current batch of defenders are so bad in the air.

    wow...

    Lindelof is like the Luke Shaw of CBs. Looked competent because he was surrounded by garbage, but then you realise he doesn't really excel at anything? Even for a supposed ball playing CB, he rarely plays killer passes from the back or carries it forward.

    On Smalling, his clumsiness means he's a little error prone when he has to move his feet quickly, but he is really quick, built like a fridge, rarely gets beat 1v1 and is great in the air.

    Again with the whole “excel at anything” garbage argument. God forbid Lindelof is a pretty well rounded CB with 1 overall real weakness.

    Your opinions and nitpicking are truly incredible.

    Are they though? None of your players are worthy players for a title challenge except AWB, DDG, Pogba and Maguire.

    I think it’s the context he’s talking about. For the level you aspire to be Shaw and Lindelof aren’t anywhere near good enough. They’re 6th-4th players at best. Neither excel at anything.

    I think united fans are stuck in the thoughts of challenging for 4th thus thinking the players they have are good enough, but they aren’t. So I don’t see how negative comments can be bitten at so easily.

    However it is a rebuild, so you have to accept the likes of McMarmite, Shaw, Lindelof, Rashford etc will never be good enough for the elite level but are okay for now to try and get back into top 4.

    Lindelof was one of the best CB’s in the league last season :joy:

    One of the best CB’s in the league, one of the best Gk’s in the league... but conceded more goals than Arsenal? Who’s defence was apparently disgraceful.

    That doesn’t add up to me.

    It's not exactly rocket science. Stick anyone in a defence with Phil Jones and Ashley Young and the team will concede goals. Hence why we addressed those positions this past summer.

    I’m not buying that one. Mark is right, Lindelof stood out because he was amongst that, but he’s still fairly average. The mistake against palace proves that.

    lmao... so what does the mistake from Maguire vs Palace say about him?

    ?

    If it’s a mistake that a Lindelof was in the right position but ultimately lost a header, it’s 100% a mistake for Maguire to be 20 yards off, not providing cover and ultimately allowing Ayew to run straight between Lindelof and Maguire. This isn’t even a pro Lindelof or Maguire debate (before you try and turn it into one because it’s me) the two of them were both equally at fault for that goal.

    I did chuckle at how quickly you spawned as soon as Maguire received criticism.

    But I’m not going to argue the point anymore. Nothing of major concern, they will learn each other’s weaknesses.

    Yeah I did say equal. Both made mistakes imo. Lindelof tailing with the header, Maguire failing to cover and track Ayew’s run.

    And agreed. They should clean that stuff up the more the they play together
  • SDoofus
    5647 posts Big Money Move
    Let's not forget DDG's awful attempt at making himself big o:)
  • Apollo
    15652 posts World Class
    When the tweet was posted earlier with the news, the source was the MEN, here's the BBC/Simon Stone reporting the story:

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