FIFA 20 - FAST VS SLOW GAMEPLAY DEBATE

Comments

  • madwullie
    4386 posts National Call-Up
    Fast gameplay = higher skill gap and would be more fun even with being possesion based player I loved fast game as my reactions are good ,Like I can tell my reactions are good as I'm genetically gifted there.

    On csgo I could still got my fast flicks and other fast games I'm still there.

    For me fast = skill and many agreed this according to pro analyses.


    Slow means more bad gameplay in delay and less room for reaction skill ,some people are just born slow and can't help it no matter what they do they will want a slow game .

    Now to me 17 and 18 had best reaction based game as turning was smooth and dribbling and passing and defence off ball was not easy like 19 and 20 if the delay stays.

    But good football gameplay should not depend on reactions but rather on smartness of buildup...

    This guy thinks he has good reactions so that means reactions should be the deciding factor on who is good or isn't.

    Also anyone who doesn't agree is therefore slow

    🤦‍♂️
  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    You can be as smart as you want, if you aren't good at using the game mechanics it shouldn't get you anywhere.

    There is no "smartness of build up". That's honestly a laughable concept in a videogame that lets you control one out of 11 players. Reacting to your opponent and his AI is far more important and should always be more important.
  • Antiversum
    5777 posts Big Money Move
    edited August 25
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.
  • AlbinoXI
    1752 posts Play-Off Hero
    All that should matter is an equal speed for both opponents
  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.

    @Antiversum you need to learn how to read bruv. Not once did I say that manual controls decrease the skill gap. I said it makes the game boring and also puts the skill gap in the wrong places.

    But reading is clearly a struggle for a few people in this thread.
  • Antiversum
    5777 posts Big Money Move
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.

    @Antiversum you need to learn how to read bruv. Not once did I say that manual controls decrease the skill gap. I said it makes the game boring and also puts the skill gap in the wrong places.

    But reading is clearly a struggle for a few people in this thread.

    It's not my problem that I have to explain to you what you actually indicate with your posts @Orison .

    First of all it doesn't take ages for a good pass or first time manual shot like you think it does. Same way people hit green TF (some might already call that manual or do you play with trainer on?) every time with their muscle memory they will aim and press the according button. I know it's hard for you to understand but people can do that. After 10 games even I can.
    And mastering the very basic of a game - the controls - is the first step to master the game.

    And again this is independant of game speed. You are trapped in your thinking that attacking is slow while defending is fast so the defender can close every gap while you need50s to pass. This is not the case.

    Also funny part of your argumentation is that drop back is op in a slow game but high pressure in a fast is not. How das that go together? And even funnier is that we now have a fairly fast game yet drop back AND high pressure is op :joy: The only valid point you can make is that in a slower game less box situations are liekly to happen. You can find that good or bad, but whether this is an indicator of any skill gap nor does anything else have when everything is slowed down the same amount. Hint: If the ball speed stays the same even more frantic passing is possible for you ;)

    Man you really need to step up your game.
  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.

    @Antiversum you need to learn how to read bruv. Not once did I say that manual controls decrease the skill gap. I said it makes the game boring and also puts the skill gap in the wrong places.

    But reading is clearly a struggle for a few people in this thread.

    It's not my problem that I have to explain to you what you actually indicate with your posts @Orison .

    First of all it doesn't take ages for a good pass or first time manual shot like you think it does. Same way people hit green TF (some might already call that manual or do you play with trainer on?) every time with their muscle memory they will aim and press the according button. I know it's hard for you to understand but people can do that. After 10 games even I can.
    And mastering the very basic of a game - the controls - is the first step to master the game.

    And again this is independant of game speed. You are trapped in your thinking that attacking is slow while defending is fast so the defender can close every gap while you need50s to pass. This is not the case.

    Also funny part of your argumentation is that drop back is op in a slow game but high pressure in a fast is not. How das that go together? And even funnier is that we now have a fairly fast game yet drop back AND high pressure is op :joy: The only valid point you can make is that in a slower game less box situations are liekly to happen. You can find that good or bad, but whether this is an indicator of any skill gap nor does anything else have when everything is slowed down the same amount. Hint: If the ball speed stays the same even more frantic passing is possible for you ;)

    Man you really need to step up your game.

    Was tempted to actually read that wall of text, but my eyes got drawn to the emojis and then I saw you saying that we have a relatively fast paced game now. Cba reading the rest, that's enough.
  • Pablofsi08
    407 posts Sunday League Hero
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.

    @Antiversum you need to learn how to read bruv. Not once did I say that manual controls decrease the skill gap. I said it makes the game boring and also puts the skill gap in the wrong places.

    But reading is clearly a struggle for a few people in this thread.

    It's not my problem that I have to explain to you what you actually indicate with your posts @Orison .

    First of all it doesn't take ages for a good pass or first time manual shot like you think it does. Same way people hit green TF (some might already call that manual or do you play with trainer on?) every time with their muscle memory they will aim and press the according button. I know it's hard for you to understand but people can do that. After 10 games even I can.
    And mastering the very basic of a game - the controls - is the first step to master the game.

    And again this is independant of game speed. You are trapped in your thinking that attacking is slow while defending is fast so the defender can close every gap while you need50s to pass. This is not the case.

    Also funny part of your argumentation is that drop back is op in a slow game but high pressure in a fast is not. How das that go together? And even funnier is that we now have a fairly fast game yet drop back AND high pressure is op :joy: The only valid point you can make is that in a slower game less box situations are liekly to happen. You can find that good or bad, but whether this is an indicator of any skill gap nor does anything else have when everything is slowed down the same amount. Hint: If the ball speed stays the same even more frantic passing is possible for you ;)

    Man you really need to step up your game.

    Was tempted to actually read that wall of text, but my eyes got drawn to the emojis and then I saw you saying that we have a relatively fast paced game now. Cba reading the rest, that's enough.

    You do realize any pro can still pass the ball almost exactly with the same precision they do with automatic guidance don't you? Why is there even a need for automatic guidance. So that casuals can play faster and be more successful?

    Why are you even trying to make an argument in favor of having stuff automatically done for you in-game? even more if you are supposedly a player of a certain skill level?

    You don't seem like one to me. No fighting game enthusiast would argue in favor of the computer doing a counter attack or a dash into a combo starter for him. Or a movement mechanic, so that he can go on with the flow of his attack.
  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Fast gameplay = higher skill gap and would be more fun even with being possesion based player I loved fast game as my reactions are good ,Like I can tell my reactions are good as I'm genetically gifted there.

    On csgo I could still got my fast flicks and other fast games I'm still there.

    For me fast = skill and many agreed this according to pro analyses.


    Slow means more bad gameplay in delay and less room for reaction skill ,some people are just born slow and can't help it no matter what they do they will want a slow game .

    Now to me 17 and 18 had best reaction based game as turning was smooth and dribbling and passing and defence off ball was not easy like 19 and 20 if the delay stays.

    But good football gameplay should not depend on reactions but rather on smartness of buildup...

    It's should requier both I play possesion and consider myslef elite level and have very good reactions
  • Empyrium7
    2763 posts Fans' Favourite
    Some players asking for a game that requires football IQ, technical thinking, Decision making, realistic concepts, passing build up, manual defending with no passing assistant, and reaction time.

    Others just asking for a game that requires muscle memory and spamming button combos

  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents
  • Empyrium7
    2763 posts Fans' Favourite
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory
  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Empyrium7 wrote: »
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory

    I don't want spam I want skilful game and I never abuse so please keep my name away from that .

    I play very patience in fifa and use my football iq but I'm good reactoins wise too.

    It's a game so we want fun not slow speed as it's only 6min halfs and 1 goal a game is boring .

    18 pre patch was imo best for build up and taking manual control of defnce .

    I'm not no ping pong player or spam I score 90% of goals from cut backs like man city style of play too .

    I just don't want some old man with 0 reactons mimicking my every move from holding contain which should be removed.
  • mfmaxpower
    109 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    IMO, the problem with this entire debate is that people are often speaking about different things when we talk about how slow or fast the gameplay is. Some people think the debate is about how players feel - are they responsive and agile enough? Others refer to the pace of play - is the game a non-stop counterattack or is there variety in pace, like the real sport?

    For me, I want players to feel agile and responsive, but I want the pace of play to be less end-to-end and less hectic. I want players to feel great with left stick dribbling, but I want it to be a challenge moving the ball up the pitch and creating chances.

    Agile and responsive players combined with a more realistic pace of play gives the best of both worlds. You get the skill gap from twitch-based skills, but you also get the skill gap from having to play proper football.

    The problem is that right now (at least with 19) the skill gap is almost all about twitch skills, which actually lowers the overall "talent" gap that could exist if there was more emphasis on the football side of things.
  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    mfmaxpower wrote: »
    IMO, the problem with this entire debate is that people are often speaking about different things when we talk about how slow or fast the gameplay is. Some people think the debate is about how players feel - are they responsive and agile enough? Others refer to the pace of play - is the game a non-stop counterattack or is there variety in pace, like the real sport?

    For me, I want players to feel agile and responsive, but I want the pace of play to be less end-to-end and less hectic. I want players to feel great with left stick dribbling, but I want it to be a challenge moving the ball up the pitch and creating chances.

    Agile and responsive players combined with a more realistic pace of play gives the best of both worlds. You get the skill gap from twitch-based skills, but you also get the skill gap from having to play proper football.

    The problem is that right now (at least with 19) the skill gap is almost all about twitch skills, which actually lowers the overall "talent" gap that could exist if there was more emphasis on the football side of things.

    Yea funny things is for me I still win alot on 19 with 0 abuse and I'm div1 lol.

    Better dribbling would help skill gap but AI defence needs to be dimmed
  • Empyrium7
    2763 posts Fans' Favourite
    mfmaxpower wrote: »
    IMO, the problem with this entire debate is that people are often speaking about different things when we talk about how slow or fast the gameplay is. Some people think the debate is about how players feel - are they responsive and agile enough? Others refer to the pace of play - is the game a non-stop counterattack or is there variety in pace, like the real sport?

    For me, I want players to feel agile and responsive, but I want the pace of play to be less end-to-end and less hectic. I want players to feel great with left stick dribbling, but I want it to be a challenge moving the ball up the pitch and creating chances.

    Agile and responsive players combined with a more realistic pace of play gives the best of both worlds. You get the skill gap from twitch-based skills, but you also get the skill gap from having to play proper football.

    The problem is that right now (at least with 19) the skill gap is almost all about twitch skills, which actually lowers the overall "talent" gap that could exist if there was more emphasis on the football side of things.

    Totally agree
    Problem is that some players don't want to play a game that simulate football.
  • Empyrium7
    2763 posts Fans' Favourite
    Empyrium7 wrote: »
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory

    I don't want spam I want skilful game and I never abuse so please keep my name away from that .

    I play very patience in fifa and use my football iq but I'm good reactoins wise too.

    It's a game so we want fun not slow speed as it's only 6min halfs and 1 goal a game is boring .

    18 pre patch was imo best for build up and taking manual control of defnce .

    I'm not no ping pong player or spam I score 90% of goals from cut backs like man city style of play too .

    I just don't want some old man with 0 reactons mimicking my every move from holding contain which should be removed.

    Agree on the contain button. It should be removed as it lowers the skill gap
  • forearms
    4816 posts National Call-Up
    Empyrium7 wrote: »
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory

    I don't want spam I want skilful game and I never abuse so please keep my name away from that .

    I play very patience in fifa and use my football iq but I'm good reactoins wise too.

    It's a game so we want fun not slow speed as it's only 6min halfs and 1 goal a game is boring .

    18 pre patch was imo best for build up and taking manual control of defnce .

    I'm not no ping pong player or spam I score 90% of goals from cut backs like man city style of play too .

    I just don't want some old man with 0 reactons mimicking my every move from holding contain which should be removed.

    I can at least agree with you on those two points.

    I'm a firm believer that contain has absolutely no right to even be put into a game like this. I've equated it to only controlling acceleration and braking in a racing game. The CPU does all the steering. Its moronic.

    Pre patch 18 was undeniably the most enjoyable FIFA title I have played. It didnt matter if I won or lost, it was fun. I was able to use players that are deemed "non-meta" due to certain abilities actually having an influence on gameplay. It wasnt only about pace, strength and stamina. Obviously, GKs needed a boost, and the ability to at least try to get a glove on any long shot. Unfortunately, they reverted back to 17 gameplay too quickly.
  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    forearms wrote: »
    Empyrium7 wrote: »
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory

    I don't want spam I want skilful game and I never abuse so please keep my name away from that .

    I play very patience in fifa and use my football iq but I'm good reactoins wise too.

    It's a game so we want fun not slow speed as it's only 6min halfs and 1 goal a game is boring .

    18 pre patch was imo best for build up and taking manual control of defnce .

    I'm not no ping pong player or spam I score 90% of goals from cut backs like man city style of play too .

    I just don't want some old man with 0 reactons mimicking my every move from holding contain which should be removed.

    I can at least agree with you on those two points.

    I'm a firm believer that contain has absolutely no right to even be put into a game like this. I've equated it to only controlling acceleration and braking in a racing game. The CPU does all the steering. Its moronic.

    Pre patch 18 was undeniably the most enjoyable FIFA title I have played. It didnt matter if I won or lost, it was fun. I was able to use players that are deemed "non-meta" due to certain abilities actually having an influence on gameplay. It wasnt only about pace, strength and stamina. Obviously, GKs needed a boost, and the ability to at least try to get a glove on any long shot. Unfortunately, they reverted back to 17 gameplay too quickly.

    Yea they do give in to easy but on 19 there said try adapt and we not updating as much lol that did not last but it was so broken anyway.

    Least 18 was fresh feeling but no out casuals cried
  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    18 post patch had nothing to do with 17.

    And I wouldn't call 18 pre patch the best or most enjoyable Fifa. It never got a chance, you didn't play a single WL game on it. Nobody know how people would have ended up exploiting that version.

    So it's basically impossible to judge the quality of it.
  • Covkilla91mob
    436 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Orison wrote: »
    18 post patch had nothing to do with 17.

    And I wouldn't call 18 pre patch the best or most enjoyable Fifa. It never got a chance, you didn't play a single WL game on it. Nobody know how people would have ended up exploiting that version.

    So it's basically impossible to judge the quality of it.

    I played about a week of it and stayed up all night some nights, it was best imo for good players anyway.

    Like 18 I beat same player again and again 19 was a pure coin toss
  • forearms
    4816 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 25
    Orison wrote: »
    18 post patch had nothing to do with 17.

    And I wouldn't call 18 pre patch the best or most enjoyable Fifa. It never got a chance, you didn't play a single WL game on it. Nobody know how people would have ended up exploiting that version.

    So it's basically impossible to judge the quality of it.

    Let's just put it this way then:

    I would rather have won 50% of the time on pre-patch 18, then win 80% of the time on what 18 became. It was that much more enjoyable for me.
  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    Orison wrote: »
    18 post patch had nothing to do with 17.

    And I wouldn't call 18 pre patch the best or most enjoyable Fifa. It never got a chance, you didn't play a single WL game on it. Nobody know how people would have ended up exploiting that version.

    So it's basically impossible to judge the quality of it.

    I played about a week of it and stayed up all night some nights, it was best imo for good players anyway.

    Like 18 I beat same player again and again 19 was a pure coin toss

    You played how many thousands of games on 18 and 19?

    Imo you can't compare a game that you played for a week (and probably just smashed draft opponents around) to a game that people learned to exploit for a whole year. The game you only played for a week will always be glorified, because it was new and fresh and easy.

    Think I went something like 80-1 in draft games that first week of Fifa 18 as well. But god knows where that version of the game would have ended up at. So I won't compare it to games I played for an entire year.
  • 3MenandaBebe
    2652 posts Fans' Favourite
    The game should be fast, way faster than it is. You can’t replicate 45 mins into 6 mins.

    That said, Ai auto defending should be toned right down, Contain removed, chain skill moves, el tornado, first time shots all nerfed.

    No look shots should have less than 1% chance of going in.

    Passing and shooting semi assisted at the most and all player switching manual

    Right now. The game is too slow. My blind deaf nan can get gold 2
  • Antiversum
    5777 posts Big Money Move
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Antiversum wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    People like @Benja190782 think full manual will change everything, others think making the game "realistic" will change everything. Reality is that it wouldn't change anything apart from ruining the game from a fun perspective. It would take the fun out of the game, but the good players who continued playing would still end up winning as they do each and every year.

    @Orison
    Let me get this straight. You actually like the fast ping pong passing and blind first time shots?
    In other words, you think the fun is taken out of the game, if it becomes harder to pass/shoot, as hitting the target with the right speed and angle is done completely by your own inputs?

    I don’t think full manual controls will change everything... I know it would.
    That’s why I’ve suggested multiple times, that EA should adjust it to semi-assisted, for people to get used to handle things on their own on the virtual football pitch in FIFA.

    That's not what I said.

    But yes I much prefer a free flowing and fast paced game over one in which you turn 10x just to find a good passing angle for your manual pass. Manual passing would make the game so incredibly slow while people were trying to find good passing angles, it would be laughable.

    And then manual shooting goes with it. It could work in a very slow paced game in which you have time to aim and what not, it would never work in a fast paced game.

    I don't want a slower game (which would happen with manual or semi manual controls), I want a faster one. The skill gap shouldn't be in holding the ball forever trying to pick the safest option. It should be in making the right decisions quickly. It's a video game, not a boredom simulator.

    This is ok darling, but how you can say that the most simple thing to increase skillgap (manual controls) actually decrease the skillgap is beyond me.

    I mean what you basically say is that the person driving a racing simulation will be the worse driver than someone playing NFS :joy:

    Sry bruh in this regard you are just wrong.

    @Antiversum you need to learn how to read bruv. Not once did I say that manual controls decrease the skill gap. I said it makes the game boring and also puts the skill gap in the wrong places.

    But reading is clearly a struggle for a few people in this thread.

    It's not my problem that I have to explain to you what you actually indicate with your posts @Orison .

    First of all it doesn't take ages for a good pass or first time manual shot like you think it does. Same way people hit green TF (some might already call that manual or do you play with trainer on?) every time with their muscle memory they will aim and press the according button. I know it's hard for you to understand but people can do that. After 10 games even I can.
    And mastering the very basic of a game - the controls - is the first step to master the game.

    And again this is independant of game speed. You are trapped in your thinking that attacking is slow while defending is fast so the defender can close every gap while you need50s to pass. This is not the case.

    Also funny part of your argumentation is that drop back is op in a slow game but high pressure in a fast is not. How das that go together? And even funnier is that we now have a fairly fast game yet drop back AND high pressure is op :joy: The only valid point you can make is that in a slower game less box situations are liekly to happen. You can find that good or bad, but whether this is an indicator of any skill gap nor does anything else have when everything is slowed down the same amount. Hint: If the ball speed stays the same even more frantic passing is possible for you ;)

    Man you really need to step up your game.

    Was tempted to actually read that wall of text, but my eyes got drawn to the emojis and then I saw you saying that we have a relatively fast paced game now. Cba reading the rest, that's enough.

    Man I thought you were older than 12. My bad.
  • Benja190782
    1418 posts Play-Off Hero
    @Orison @3MenandaBebe @deang07 and everybody else should read this true story of FIFA.

    We should change the title if people don’t understand the problem. It’s literally “simulation vs. arcade” instead of “fast vs. slow” gameplay.

    The true story goes like this: the sim fans are telling the arcade fans, to realise that their arcade gameplay, doesn’t require the same amount of skill, as a hardcore simulation would. Because in the arcade game you get help with all your inputs, as passing, shooting and crossing is assisted to help you aim and adjust power correctly.

    The main problem is that the arcade players are still rewarded, in-game, for doing fast 180 degree blind ping pong passes and shooting blind shots on target. The arcade players then brag about how quick reactions they got, but won’t realise that they are actually exposed, as they doesn’t control these inputs themself. The arcade fans ignore the fact that they are assisted, and tells the sim fans to “git gud” and practice on their reaction time. The arcade fans want the gameplay speed to be even faster to hide their missing skills, as they simply can’t outsmart their opponents by pure vision, tactical awareness and football knowledge. They doesn’t know how to score goals other than spamming their buttons and rely on reaction time.

    The sim fans laugh, as they basically got the same reaction time, and some of them even better reaction time, than the arcade players. All the sim fans wish for is an authentic football experience, where the winner is the one, with true skills of tactical awareness, football knowledge and vision/composure as a FIFA player. The sim fans encourage the developers to make the core gameplay less assisted, as the sim fans know, they can beat every arcade fan out there, as they are Masters of vision and can outsmart their opponents very very easy.

    Especially if the defending is hardcore manual controlled. Which leads the sim fans back to FIFA 18 and the first 14 days after release. Because before the patch was out the sim fans saw how exposed the arcade fans were, without assists in defence. The problem was that the arcade fans were still heavyly assisted in attack, so they could still play fast ping pong passing and get rewarded for it.

    The sim fans was yelling to the developers to quickly remove the passing assists and shooting assists, as the gameplay at FIFA 18’s release day was the best they have ever experienced in FIFA.

    The developers wouldn’t listen, because they were affraid to loose their arcade fans, even tho many of the arcade players already loved FIFA 18 at release.

    But the risk was too big... and the gameplay have never changed since.

    Benjamin, Denmark.

    “FIFA 20 will not change it either”


  • Orison
    48657 posts FIFA Cover Star
    The arcade game is better to play, better to watch, easier to access and therefore easier to sell.

    By wording it that way you are basically arguing that the game should be as fast as possible :trollface: A simulation really has no place in competitive gaming or in attracting players and viewers. Simulations are a slow paced niche product.
  • Pablofsi08
    407 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited August 25
    The game should be fast, way faster than it is. You can’t replicate 45 mins into 6 mins.

    That said, Ai auto defending should be toned right down, Contain removed, chain skill moves, el tornado, first time shots all nerfed.

    No look shots should have less than 1% chance of going in.

    Passing and shooting semi assisted at the most and all player switching manual

    Right now. The game is too slow. My blind deaf nan can get gold 2

    I agree, except where you say that the game should be faster than it already is.
    mfmaxpower wrote: »
    IMO, the problem with this entire debate is that people are often speaking about different things when we talk about how slow or fast the gameplay is. Some people think the debate is about how players feel - are they responsive and agile enough? Others refer to the pace of play - is the game a non-stop counterattack or is there variety in pace, like the real sport?

    For me, I want players to feel agile and responsive, but I want the pace of play to be less end-to-end and less hectic. I want players to feel great with left stick dribbling, but I want it to be a challenge moving the ball up the pitch and creating chances.

    Agile and responsive players combined with a more realistic pace of play gives the best of both worlds. You get the skill gap from twitch-based skills, but you also get the skill gap from having to play proper football.

    The problem is that right now (at least with 19) the skill gap is almost all about twitch skills, which actually lowers the overall "talent" gap that could exist if there was more emphasis on the football side of things.

    This

    forearms wrote: »
    Empyrium7 wrote: »
    Football iq should matter but sorry if you got slow reactions you can't expect to be good at elite level .

    Even real players have good reactions and it's what makes sportsman have edge over slow players.

    Like de gea has cat like reflexes and so many others and that's helps them win games.

    I play with my brain but also blessed to have smooth input and quick reactions so have upper on my oppenents

    weird flex again

    Why do you guys assume that players who are asking for a slower and more realistic gameplay have a slow reaction time and can't press two buttons at the same time.
    Most of us here are gamers and trust me we have fast reaction time. But we don't want to play a game that only depends on button spamming and muscle memory

    I don't want spam I want skilful game and I never abuse so please keep my name away from that .

    I play very patience in fifa and use my football iq but I'm good reactoins wise too.

    It's a game so we want fun not slow speed as it's only 6min halfs and 1 goal a game is boring .

    18 pre patch was imo best for build up and taking manual control of defnce .

    I'm not no ping pong player or spam I score 90% of goals from cut backs like man city style of play too .

    I just don't want some old man with 0 reactons mimicking my every move from holding contain which should be removed.

    I can at least agree with you on those two points.

    I'm a firm believer that contain has absolutely no right to even be put into a game like this. I've equated it to only controlling acceleration and braking in a racing game. The CPU does all the steering. Its moronic.

    And this ^.

    & @Orison could not answer my post. No surprise there.
  • Pablofsi08
    407 posts Sunday League Hero
    Orison wrote: »
    The arcade game is better to play, better to watch, easier to access and therefore easier to sell.

    By wording it that way you are basically arguing that the game should be as fast as possible :trollface: A simulation really has no place in competitive gaming or in attracting players and viewers. Simulations are a slow paced niche product.

    Better to play for ETs with three fingers. Pros can still execute commands at the same speed and with almost the same precision they get with assisted controls, without them. We don't need them, they break the game in favor of casuals (but this would hurt EA's sales and that's why it isn't in the game even though they are trying to push forward a competitive scene for it) and the fact that you actually want assisted controls is just sad and shows your level of understanding and scruples.
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