Will EA do anything to reduce the effectiveness of high pressure and agression for Fifa 18

2

Comments

  • WallOfTrump
    585 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited July 2017
    Gerdinho90 wrote: »
    you basically HAVE to use high pressure vs people who park the bus all game in order to avoid penalty shoot-outs against weaker players.

    if EA takes this away, the game becomes a park the bus fest in which the skill gap is even more reduced.

    cant believe people actually think high pressure is overpowered.

    The only issues with the game are park the bus, overpowered defensive AI and input delay. Applying high pressure requires 100000x more skill than sitting at the back.

    I reached 40-0 this week by playing high pressure. i've conceded goals on the counter but I only had 1 penalty shootout the entire weekend. Games were mostly decided within 90 minutes. Far less frustrating than playing defensive vs a park the bus robot.

    Respectfully, going 40-0 doesn't make it any less of a gimmicky style of play exploiting the game. It's gimmicky play. Just because you've perfected it doesn't make it more legitimate. No where in real life is that style possible to be successful and sustainable.
    90% of people that do it are simply concentrated on charging and timing tackles. Not closing lanes or calculating whether it's better to close a lane or go for the tackle etc etc. It's a gimmick and unrealistic.

    The fact that people still have multiple men in position to get forward in Ptb Prb need to be addressed also.

    But let's not use the flawed logic that because you do well with a game exploitation and it took you time to perfect it, that it's not a game exploitation.

    It's there so do it, but moving forward it shouldn't be.
  • paul24878306
    4717 posts Big Money Move
    I don't actually think shielding is on. Just people don't now how to beat it, including me.

    I try and shield but get so tightly marked I can't do anything and They still get the ball from behind, or i get ganged up on before I get support.

    Pressure and ptb are way more of than shielding.
  • Gerdinho90
    258 posts Sunday League Hero
    Gerdinho90 wrote: »
    you basically HAVE to use high pressure vs people who park the bus all game in order to avoid penalty shoot-outs against weaker players.

    if EA takes this away, the game becomes a park the bus fest in which the skill gap is even more reduced.

    cant believe people actually think high pressure is overpowered.

    The only issues with the game are park the bus, overpowered defensive AI and input delay. Applying high pressure requires 100000x more skill than sitting at the back.

    I reached 40-0 this week by playing high pressure. i've conceded goals on the counter but I only had 1 penalty shootout the entire weekend. Games were mostly decided within 90 minutes. Far less frustrating than playing defensive vs a park the bus robot.

    Respectfully, going 40-0 doesn't make it any less of a gimmicky style of play exploiting the game. It's gimmicky play. Just because you've perfected it doesn't make it more legitimate. No where in real life is that style possible to be successful and sustainable.
    90% of people that do it are simply concentrated on charging and timing tackles. Not closing lanes or calculating whether it's better to close a lane or go for the tackle etc etc. It's a gimmick and unrealistic.

    The fact that people still have multiple men in position to get forward in Ptb Prb need to be addressed also.

    But let's not use the flawed logic that because you do well with a game exploitation and it took you time to perfect it, that it's not a game exploitation.

    It's there so do it, but moving forward it shouldn't be.

    what kind of exploitation? with high pressure you have to be precise in taking the ball away manually as opposed to the PTB guy who just sits there and lets his AI defend.

    also, you can outplay people with high pressure. Just use L2 (which is the real "exploit" in this game), whenever i rush at you. sooner or later, i realize that I have to defend a little different and the game might turn.

    If you play against high pressure, you need a good eye for your passes and good dribbling skills to keep the ball. In my opinion, skill in this context will decide about who wins the game.

    being active should be rewarded instead of sitting back waiting for the AI to take the ball away. High pressure should be rewarded as the associated risk is pretty high due to counter attacks.
  • maksi
    6603 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 2017
    The main issue with high pressure is if you use very attacking formation (4321/4312/3412 etc.) and use offside trap to get all you players near the half line, you suffocate your opponent because he's out of options quickly and every pass forward is going to be intercepted, that's very unrealistic the only team who has done it almost perfect is Barca with Guardiola, but on FIFA 17 every OP team plays like that with perfection.

    They need to make attacking AI smarter to exploit the space they left with high line.
  • Gerdinho90
    258 posts Sunday League Hero
    maksi wrote: »
    The main issue with high pressure is if you use very attacking formation (4321/4312/3412 etc.) and use offside trap to get all you players near the half line, you suffocate your opponent because he's out of options quickly and every pass forward is going to be intercepted, that's very unrealistic the only team who has done it almost perfect is Barca with Guardiola, but on FIFA 17 every OP team plays like that with perfection.

    They need to make attacking AI smarter to exploit the space they left with high line.

    Since passing and shielding is overpowered in this game, you need high pressure to combat that. 180 degree passing is so accurate, that they are sometimes even more accurate than passes facing the team mate.

    If high pressure would be not effective. Weak players could easily pass and keep possession that way.

    I've played fifa 16 extensively and high pressure was also the way to go, but it was even stronger back then, since passing required way more skill as opposed to fifa17.

    Taking high pressure out in fifa17 or nerfing it should go hand in hand with making passing and keeping possession more difficult. Right now, L2 is just way too overpowered and high pressure kind of helps in combating it.

    Factor in input delay and the game becomes a total mess: for the high pressurer, whose tackles become super inaccurate due to less control over his players and for the other player trying to string together passes (but to a lesser extent as passing assistance is very high, compensating the delay to some degree).
  • bjornheisenberg
    3714 posts National Call-Up
    iNero wrote: »
    iNero wrote: »
    iNero wrote: »
    Stupid complaint
    I hate people who sit back and don't tackle it's so dam boring the AI just stay solid and defend for you

    I like to go for the ball manually and tackle my opponent

    Great and if you do that it should drain your stamina so in the last 30 minutes your players are dead from charging around non stop.

    I think it's bad for the game to render players who don't have high strength and aggression ineffective for the large part.

    Look what happened to the England football team for 25 years because they focused on physicality over technical ability, that is FIFA 17.

    It does I hate anybody with stamina lower than 80
    With over 90 being much preferred.

    I also put a fitness card on every game as it destroys fitness to

    Stamina has been majorly implemented this year compared to last few Fifa's when I never even looked at it..so go cry elsewhere about someone playing differently from you

    lol
    the way players press they would be donald ducked by half time.
    the press is normally a triggered action...not the full 90 mins liek on fifa where everyone seems to run full speed.

    it has been implemented in a complete amatuerish manner....but this is ea.

    I'm still not grasping this ...players with lower stamina do die earlier usually 60 mins or so they need changed to continue with the same pressing

    This game would be boring as hell if we all were forced to play a slow style sitting deep letting the AI defend well cutting passing lanes isn't my idea of fun and every game I play like that is a dull 2 shots to each player game.

    I don't want to choose when I can sprint with my player because he's going to be to tired this is a video game not a realistic simulation ...fun matters

    the game is boring if people press full on for 90.

    i dont care if i have to play patient possesion football or quick counter attacks.
    saying that ive managed and its all about managing situations with what you have.

    as a computer game they have got pressing very wrong.
  • Gerdinho90
    258 posts Sunday League Hero
    iNero wrote: »
    iNero wrote: »
    iNero wrote: »
    Stupid complaint
    I hate people who sit back and don't tackle it's so dam boring the AI just stay solid and defend for you

    I like to go for the ball manually and tackle my opponent

    Great and if you do that it should drain your stamina so in the last 30 minutes your players are dead from charging around non stop.

    I think it's bad for the game to render players who don't have high strength and aggression ineffective for the large part.

    Look what happened to the England football team for 25 years because they focused on physicality over technical ability, that is FIFA 17.

    It does I hate anybody with stamina lower than 80
    With over 90 being much preferred.

    I also put a fitness card on every game as it destroys fitness to

    Stamina has been majorly implemented this year compared to last few Fifa's when I never even looked at it..so go cry elsewhere about someone playing differently from you

    lol
    the way players press they would be donald ducked by half time.
    the press is normally a triggered action...not the full 90 mins liek on fifa where everyone seems to run full speed.

    it has been implemented in a complete amatuerish manner....but this is ea.

    I'm still not grasping this ...players with lower stamina do die earlier usually 60 mins or so they need changed to continue with the same pressing

    This game would be boring as hell if we all were forced to play a slow style sitting deep letting the AI defend well cutting passing lanes isn't my idea of fun and every game I play like that is a dull 2 shots to each player game.

    I don't want to choose when I can sprint with my player because he's going to be to tired this is a video game not a realistic simulation ...fun matters

    the game is boring if people press full on for 90.

    i dont care if i have to play patient possesion football or quick counter attacks.
    saying that ive managed and its all about managing situations with what you have.

    as a computer game they have got pressing very wrong.

    I prefer high pressure games on both teams, fighting for goals instead of both players parking it 120 minutes and hope for pens.

    Its actually more fun if both players try to score goals and fight for every ball and space. Thats also when individual skill has the highest impact. Playing super defensively and relying on AI takes away skill and reduces skill gap.

    This is why FIFA16 is considered far superior in terms of gameplay by a lot of people. High pressure was the thing, but if you were skilled enough with passing and skill moves, you could create space and still build your game up.

  • maksi
    6603 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 2017
    Well high aggression should make you prone to making mistakes unlike in the game where they can swarm you and still have good formation shape.

    Also there is no downside for making insane pressure in attacking half that's why everyone is doing it, no balance at all. Many "elite" fifa 17 players have no clue how to pass but they rely on quick turnovers with their Kante&Co.
    Post edited by maksi on
  • Libguy
    4837 posts National Call-Up
    You can shield and ping-pong this year, so it's really not that bad. Now last year . . .
  • tikitaka33
    2284 posts Fans' Favourite
    I just want a game where Busquets, David Silva, Iniesta, Kroos, etc. are actually useful.
  • Icosa_Gaming
    6803 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 2017
    tikitaka33 wrote: »
    I just want a game where Busquets, David Silva, Iniesta, Kroos, etc. are actually useful.

    Will never happen. The game is too fast for these guys to be usable and passing is broken. You can play tiki taka with a team of goalkeepers.
  • Libguy
    4837 posts National Call-Up
    edited July 2017
    tikitaka33 wrote: »
    I just want a game where Busquets, David Silva, Iniesta, Kroos, etc. are actually useful.

    Will never happen. The game is too fast for these guys to be usable and passing is broken. You can play tiki taka with a team of goalkeepers.

    Yeah, you'd really have to make passing so bad for most players in general that the game would be a nightmare to play. I mean, it'd probably be realistic, but it would suck if you could never hit a through ball with anybody who has under 75 passing.
  • Icosa_Gaming
    6803 posts Big Money Move
    Libguy wrote: »
    tikitaka33 wrote: »
    I just want a game where Busquets, David Silva, Iniesta, Kroos, etc. are actually useful.

    Will never happen. The game is too fast for these guys to be usable and passing is broken. You can play tiki taka with a team of goalkeepers.

    Yeah, you'd really have to make passing so bad for most players in general that the game would be a nightmare to play. I mean, it'd probably be realistic, but it would suck if you could never hit a through ball with anybody who has under 75 passing.

    I'm not a big fan of PES but the passing system is perfect. You can feel the difference between a Iniesta and a Kanté in terms of that attribute. In FIFA you feel jack ***
  • CtldChaos
    2064 posts Fans' Favourite
    Gerdinho90 wrote: »
    Without the existence of high pressure, fifa 17 would have been completely broken.

    Passing and shielding is already very easy to perform. Keeping the ball is therefore very easy as well.

    Using high pressure gives you at least the chance to get the ball back, but you can be countered fairly easily.

    Without high pressure, people who Park the bus all game and hold L2 would be almost unstoppable. You sound like you are that type of guy. Can't wait for fifa 18, which hopefully removes this play style and you drop back to silver level. As of right now, you can easily get to elite by parking it and abusing the L2 button.

    Agree with everything you have said here. BUT the button delay for the players with good connections make high pressure seriously OP. You play high pressure against me on an even button response, that will be a fair game, I at least have an opportunity to counter it. Then it comes down to who can execute the strategy the best. But with the button delay, it is MUCH harder and in some games nearly impossible to counter. Any idiot can control a player and run into another player, but when the game mechanics themselves prevent me from punishing it, then there is a problem. I think that is the heart of the request being made in this thread. Not really to tone down the high pressure, but allow for effective methods of playing against it.
  • Gerdinho90
    258 posts Sunday League Hero
    CtldChaos wrote: »
    Gerdinho90 wrote: »
    Without the existence of high pressure, fifa 17 would have been completely broken.

    Passing and shielding is already very easy to perform. Keeping the ball is therefore very easy as well.

    Using high pressure gives you at least the chance to get the ball back, but you can be countered fairly easily.

    Without high pressure, people who Park the bus all game and hold L2 would be almost unstoppable. You sound like you are that type of guy. Can't wait for fifa 18, which hopefully removes this play style and you drop back to silver level. As of right now, you can easily get to elite by parking it and abusing the L2 button.

    Agree with everything you have said here. BUT the button delay for the players with good connections make high pressure seriously OP. You play high pressure against me on an even button response, that will be a fair game, I at least have an opportunity to counter it. Then it comes down to who can execute the strategy the best. But with the button delay, it is MUCH harder and in some games nearly impossible to counter. Any idiot can control a player and run into another player, but when the game mechanics themselves prevent me from punishing it, then there is a problem. I think that is the heart of the request being made in this thread. Not really to tone down the high pressure, but allow for effective methods of playing against it.

    ye thats actually the essence of everything, one sided delay makes the game unplayable.

    Fully agree, with delay you are fked against PTB and also against high pressure, does not even matter what kind of opponent.

    If you think about it, the game is actually in a really balanced state if you have a non delayed gameplay for both players in the same match. A lot of issues just occur due to delay.
  • TubAShet
    1400 posts Professional
    tikitaka33 wrote: »
    I just want a game where Busquets, David Silva, Iniesta, Kroos, etc. are actually useful.

    Will never happen. The game is too fast for these guys to be usable and passing is broken. You can play tiki taka with a team of goalkeepers.

    Sad but true.

    Not played Silva, Mata or Cazorla ALL year once. These players used to be used by a fair few people, now the game only accommodates for physical beasts with high stamina.

    These players I mention above should be able to compete and outplay opponents in game - but its not possible to a high consistent level.
  • Libguy
    4837 posts National Call-Up
    EA did do a decent job this year of creating a gulf between high and low-end strikers. Maybe they'll get passing right one of years.
  • ItsWideRight
    705 posts Semi-Pro
    Yeah passing being inconsistent is one of the issues, you can have a someone with bad passing stats playing pin point balls while a supposedly great passer will miss the same pass by 5 yards.
  • BullishBull
    901 posts Semi-Pro
    I don't see them nerfing high pressure when they can point to Liverpool who are probably the biggest high pressure abusers in real life football right now. You also have Spurs who do it.
  • Bevlarrrr
    1020 posts Professional
    I have found high pressure a bit of a pain to beat,currently running 433(4) and played a guy who was 4312 last night and I was literally getting battered from all angles, whenever I got the ball to my players I'd either have a player getting infront of me or right up behind me then if I did manage to pull a pass off their next player would be on my player who received the ball, how can you get around this when you can't get out your own half ?! I just find at times I can't get the ball out of my own half let alone having an attack when you've got players surrounding you. Any formation to change too when this happens or any tips ?
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