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General election!

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  • M98H
    13637 posts Has That Special Something
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    I think he means paying a higher % rate the more you earn.

    Do you mean they should contribute more as a £ amount or more as a % of their salary? Because I'm sure in 99% of cases they do contribute more as a £ amount.

    Yeah I mean I get that they already do I think I just took from his post that he thought it wasn't right that people who earn £70,000 shouldn't have to pay as much tax because they "work hard"

    Calm down Jesus Christ :joy:
    Didn't mean they shouldn't pay tax at all, but shouldn't be taxed even more than they already are.
  • Jackadinho
    1655 posts Play-Off Hero
    MH1203 wrote: »
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    I think he means paying a higher % rate the more you earn.

    Do you mean they should contribute more as a £ amount or more as a % of their salary? Because I'm sure in 99% of cases they do contribute more as a £ amount.

    Yeah I mean I get that they already do I think I just took from his post that he thought it wasn't right that people who earn £70,000 shouldn't have to pay as much tax because they "work hard"

    Calm down Jesus Christ :joy:
    Didn't mean they shouldn't pay tax at all, but shouldn't be taxed even more than they already are.

    Really won't hurt to pay a little bit more. It would effect my family but if it meant more money to go into infrastructure then I'm not going to complain
  • Manimal
    43 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Its curious how people are changing in this country especially post brexit. Much less tolerance and to me at least a perceived selfish streak is emerging.

    I will be voting Labour because I have seen first hand the state of the NHS, the increase in homelessness and foodbanks and the way the current government treats the disabled. Regardless of personal thoughts on Corbyn or May by thoughts as a human are that something needs to change.

    If that means an increase in tax for people who can afford it (myself included) that will result in a better quality of life for the majority then its something I accept with open arms. Let's not forget those in the higher brackets and the self employed are using tax loopholes left right and centre anyway (Self employed paying dividends to avoid income tax rules etc)

    To my mind this election comes down to humanity and compassion. No party is perfect but its evident that what we have now isn't right and is only going to get worse.
  • Peake
    894 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited June 2017
    MH1203 wrote: »
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    I think he means paying a higher % rate the more you earn.

    Do you mean they should contribute more as a £ amount or more as a % of their salary? Because I'm sure in 99% of cases they do contribute more as a £ amount.

    Yeah I mean I get that they already do I think I just took from his post that he thought it wasn't right that people who earn £70,000 shouldn't have to pay as much tax because they "work hard"

    Calm down Jesus Christ :joy:
    Didn't mean they shouldn't pay tax at all, but shouldn't be taxed even more than they already are.

    Why not? If you were earning that much wouldn't you want to help those that are in need, even if it costs you a few more quid?

    Here are a couple of examples of how it affects people in real life, it's heart breaking.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/30/disabled-readers-austerity-disability-cuts







  • Matt_Cornwall
    3529 posts National Call-Up
    Manimal wrote: »
    Its curious how people are changing in this country especially post brexit. Much less tolerance and to me at least a perceived selfish streak is emerging.

    I will be voting Labour because I have seen first hand the state of the NHS, the increase in homelessness and foodbanks and the way the current government treats the disabled. Regardless of personal thoughts on Corbyn or May by thoughts as a human are that something needs to change.

    If that means an increase in tax for people who can afford it (myself included) that will result in a better quality of life for the majority then its something I accept with open arms. Let's not forget those in the higher brackets and the self employed are using tax loopholes left right and centre anyway (Self employed paying dividends to avoid income tax rules etc)

    To my mind this election comes down to humanity and compassion. No party is perfect but its evident that what we have now isn't right and is only going to get worse.

    I'm not getting involved in a debate but the dividends one isn't quite that clear cut. Your company has to make profit in order to pay dividends (and a decent amount if you're self employed) otherwise you don't get anything. Also, if you only paid yourself in dividends then you won't be making any NI contributions which means you're not entitled to a state pension later in life. I think most people would have a balance of divi and salary to mitigate the risk.

    I do agree there are a lot of loop holes. But sadly as soon as they close some, more will be discovered. More little things bug me like child benefit. If I earn £50k it starts to diminish even if my wife earns £10k (combined £60k). Opposed to a couple who both earn £49k each (combined £98k) they keep the full entitlement.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    Jeremy Corbyn drastically divides opinion, some love him, somd loathe him.

    Theresa May doeasnt, no one likes her they just dislike Corbyn more.
  • Manimal
    43 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Absolutely, I don't intend for that to be a closed off point and it's just one small example. No question that people do take a salary of some description it is mitigated by the dividends in many cases (even in businesses earning millions)

    My general point is that the people in the fortunate positions to be privy to these loopholes can afford that little extra without diminishing quality of life by any real amount. I am sure many people like myself didn't have much growing up and have gone on to do ok for themselves but the cuts and decrease in quality of life has still affected a lot of people that I care about.

    Obviously, closing a loophole where Mike the accountant earns an extra 5k a year and closing a loophole where a massive business can avoid paying millions whilst having its staff on minimum wage is very different.

    I don't believe that Labour or any other party have a magic wand to make everything better but I do believe that they have people at heart and will take sensible measures to restore some balance.

  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Manimal wrote: »
    Absolutely, I don't intend for that to be a closed off point and it's just one small example. No question that people do take a salary of some description it is mitigated by the dividends in many cases (even in businesses earning millions)

    My general point is that the people in the fortunate positions to be privy to these loopholes can afford that little extra without diminishing quality of life by any real amount. I am sure many people like myself didn't have much growing up and have gone on to do ok for themselves but the cuts and decrease in quality of life has still affected a lot of people that I care about.

    Obviously, closing a loophole where Mike the accountant earns an extra 5k a year and closing a loophole where a massive business can avoid paying millions whilst having its staff on minimum wage is very different.

    I don't believe that Labour or any other party have a magic wand to make everything better but I do believe that they have people at heart and will take sensible measures to restore some balance.

    Nice reasoned points B)
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    I liked Cameron, thought he did a good job until Brexit, which was a gamble he got wrong, I have to vote on how Iv seen the last few parties in power, labour under Blair was a disaster, him and brown ruined the economy, the Tories went along way to rectifying it. I run a limited business which will be taxed higher if corbyn gets in which may mean I end up having to let at least one person go, if he also raises minimum wage to £10.00 im literally fu*cked. I understand the basic wage should be higher for certain jobs but for labourers who can't find there arse from there mouth no im sorry there paid too much as it is. We went through a really bad time last time labour where in power and I really worry that corbyn will do the same, his figures don't make sense, it's all very well saying he will tax the higher earners, but they are higher earners for a reason and they are savvy enough to move a lot of there money out of the country, which means the working class 30k - 40k of us will be bearing the brunt of the hike. Then there's the fact that corbyns own party has tried to get rid of him numerous times, plus his tolerance for the IRA and as much as immigrants arnt a problem to me I think it will be a free for all if he gets in. So for me I think I'll be going conservative . I have to add I do like the liberal democrats idea of legalising Marauana and taxing it, im not a drug taker myself and for the many pot heads in here I do have to say seriously just quit you can be so much better with out it, but at least he's giving us an alternative to pay for all these extras we are being promised. Unfortunalty the country is still broke so I austerity has to stay for a few more years yet. But then again I know nothing.
  • Arsenalfan97
    7936 posts League Winner
    Guvnor wrote: »
    I liked Cameron, thought he did a good job until Brexit, which was a gamble he got wrong, I have to vote on how Iv seen the last few parties in power, labour under Blair was a disaster, him and brown ruined the economy, the Tories went along way to rectifying it. I run a limited business which will be taxed higher if corbyn gets in which may mean I end up having to let at least one person go, if he also raises minimum wage to £10.00 im literally fu*cked. I understand the basic wage should be higher for certain jobs but for labourers who can't find there arse from there mouth no im sorry there paid too much as it is. We went through a really bad time last time labour where in power and I really worry that corbyn will do the same, his figures don't make sense, it's all very well saying he will tax the higher earners, but they are higher earners for a reason and they are savvy enough to move a lot of there money out of the country, which means the working class 30k - 40k of us will be bearing the brunt of the hike. Then there's the fact that corbyns own party has tried to get rid of him numerous times, plus his tolerance for the IRA and as much as immigrants arnt a problem to me I think it will be a free for all if he gets in. So for me I think I'll be going conservative . I have to add I do like the liberal democrats idea of legalising Marauana and taxing it, im not a drug taker myself and for the many pot heads in here I do have to say seriously just quit you can be so much better with out it, but at least he's giving us an alternative to pay for all these extras we are being promised. Unfortunalty the country is still broke so I austerity has to stay for a few more years yet. But then again I know nothing.

    I swear it is the living wage he will increase to £10.00 not the minimum wage. I may have read it wrong though.
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    And to the guy who says self employed are using tax loopholes Ect, are you on drugs??? We get battered by the tax. And I'm all for you taking one for the team and paying more tax, but I have kids and a wife to look after so sod the low earners, they should go and get a better job instead of wanting handouts. Iv worked my arse of to get to where I'm at so why should I give my money to a geezer who's been happy earning minimum wage all his life, had a few kids to top up his wage with benefits and now moans that he can't afford to go to Spain on holiday. I'm sorry and I do understand that some people live in abject poverty but the vast majority still have sky tv, they still smoke , they still go out for tea. No I'm sorry it's the wrong mentality to have, it's going back to the blairites who allowed so many people to stay on the dole for the vast majority of there working life.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    "Go get a better job"

    Not everyone can get a better job ffs, low earning, unskilled jobs still need doing.
  • Manimal
    43 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Guvnor wrote: »

    I always say politics is an opinions game and reflects on the personal circumstance of the individual. That said there are a few points raised below which you see a lot of and I think its important to discuss them.


    I liked Cameron, thought he did a good job until Brexit, which was a gamble he got wrong, I have to vote on how Iv seen the last few parties in power, labour under Blair was a disaster, him and brown ruined the economy, the Tories went along way to rectifying it. - As I said you see this generalisation a lot. It would be interesting to know how you come to this conclusion? A lot of people say "well the tories have spent record numbers on xxxxx" This is true in most cases but only because they have borrowed more than any other government. It is also worth noting that spend doesnt always equal efficiency.

    I run a limited business which will be taxed higher if corbyn gets in which may mean I end up having to let at least one person go, if he also raises minimum wage to £10.00 im literally fu*cked. I understand the basic wage should be higher for certain jobs but for labourers who can't find there arse from there mouth no im sorry there paid too much as it is.

    Another misunderstanding. When you actually look at wages v inflation over the last 8 years we are much worse off in real terms. It doesn't also factor in the human aspects of a living wage (increased happiness, the potential for increased productivity) as well as more spending power which will go back into these businesses

    We went through a really bad time last time labour where in power and I really worry that corbyn will do the same, his figures don't make sense, it's all very well saying he will tax the higher earners, but they are higher earners for a reason and they are savvy enough to move a lot of there money out of the country, which means the working class 30k - 40k of us will be bearing the brunt of the hike.

    Not the case, those earning 80k plus are the only ones who will see a minor increase. Higher earning doesn't mean more intelligent or harder working

    Then there's the fact that corbyns own party has tried to get rid of him numerous times, plus his tolerance for the IRA and as much as immigrants arnt a problem to me I think it will be a free for all if he gets in.

    People change, thats the reality of life. Corbyn was trying to get peace for Ireland. Our government along with many others are selling arms to people we know to be murderous. I would say that is more closely linked to terrorism than what Corbyn did by a long way

    So for me I think I'll be going conservative . I have to add I do like the liberal democrats idea of legalising Marauana and taxing it, im not a drug taker myself and for the many pot heads in here I do have to say seriously just quit you can be so much better with out it, but at least he's giving us an alternative to pay for all these extras we are being promised. Unfortunalty the country is still broke so I austerity has to stay for a few more years yet. But then again I know nothing.

    As I said this is a game of opinions but I think recourse is essential. It's not a case of I am right and you are wrong by any means. It is important to understand perceptions from both sides and if those perceptions are based on truth or even just opinion rather than lies then there is no room for dismissal irrespective of personal feelings.

  • Santiago
    21531 posts Club Captain
    I am voting for King Barrett
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    Yes I know some people can't get a better job that's true , and I should not off put that but the fact is there will always be poor, im poor, seriously if you looked at my bank accounts you'd agree, no matter what people earn they in general live to it, so I still stand by not agreeing on being taxed more we're taxed enough as it is.
  • Manimal
    43 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Guvnor wrote: »
    And to the guy who says self employed are using tax loopholes Ect, are you on drugs??? We get battered by the tax. And I'm all for you taking one for the team and paying more tax, but I have kids and a wife to look after so sod the low earners, they should go and get a better job instead of wanting handouts. Iv worked my arse of to get to where I'm at so why should I give my money to a geezer who's been happy earning minimum wage all his life, had a few kids to top up his wage with benefits and now moans that he can't afford to go to Spain on holiday. I'm sorry and I do understand that some people live in abject poverty but the vast majority still have sky tv, they still smoke , they still go out for tea. No I'm sorry it's the wrong mentality to have, it's going back to the blairites who allowed so many people to stay on the dole for the vast majority of there working life.

    I went for a measured rebuttal to your first points but this is nonsense. It reads like a daily mail random word generator.

    " Iv worked my arse of to get to where I'm at so why should I give my money to a geezer who's been happy earning minimum wage all his life, had a few kids to top up his wage with benefits and now moans that he can't afford to go to Spain on holiday"

    This is the kind of dangerous rhetoric that simply isn't true. Most of us work hard. The amount of people who game is the system is grossly overstated and the amount of those who are let down by it is criminally understated.

    I know for a fact that tax loopholes and plenty of them exist and I am not saying that everyone uses them but the mentality that those who don't earn enough are wasters is abhorrent.
  • Reus
    23206 posts Club Captain
    Peter wrote: »
    "Go get a better job"

    Not everyone can get a better job ffs, low earning, unskilled jobs still need doing.

    Jobs often done by migrants who some dont consider welcome in our country

    People that work their ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off doing ❤️❤️❤️❤️ jobs for 7.50 an hour
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited June 2017
    @Manimal agreed it is all opionions but I'll try to answer your bold statements. like I said early in my post I can only base it on my own experience, when the credit crunch hit I nearly lost everything, once the tories came in economy started to settle and business started to pick up, my tax actually fell for the first few years even though earnings rose, not so much now but like I say I felt that my life improved when they came into power. As for corbyn and the IRA yes he was working towards peace but then he also classed affat as a friend and in sorry but working towards peace or not those people killed women and children, but yes all governments are the same, however he is very liberal on immigration and more crucially on how we should deal with terrorists which scares me. As for the higher earning tax thing I don't know why my comment made you think that I was saying the lower earners are not hard working or less intelligent, just that I believe if corbyn comes in and keeps all his promises everyone will be paying a hell of a lot more in taxes . That also scares me.

    Final bold , I do realise Iv done these out of order but I'm going back as I write, people may be worse off than 8 yrs ago in real terms, but They will be even worse off when I can't afford to keep them in employment and have to lay them off because I don't have the turnover to cover the increased cost of the staff, and I'm only in construction, the manufacturing sector which I know is now only small will however die, companies will open factories in other countries and just import. I do keep seeing this in real terms we are worse off than 8 yrs ago, but I'm not, are you? As it's all very well coming out with these studies but actually all the people I'm dealing with and speaking too are better off now than 8 yrs ago.
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited June 2017
    @Manimal Abhorrent, never been called abhorrent, great word though. Listen I'm not saying all low earners are wasters, it was a off the cuff example of why I don't feel as a relatively low earner myself I should have to pay more in tax than lower earners. Read my other comments and hopefully you'll see that. Like I have already posted I shouldn't have put the comment you have jumped on. So my bad.
  • Slow As Kieran
    1676 posts Play-Off Hero
    Not voting. I don't involve myself in politics. Maybe one day when I am older (I'm 21 now) I will have an input, but right now I keep away from it as i don't really understand it all.
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    You should all vote guys. It's very simple get a postal vote, you don't even need to leave your house then.
  • Reus
    23206 posts Club Captain
    Guvnor wrote: »
    You should all vote guys. It's very simple get a postal vote, you don't even need to leave your house then.

    People who arent informed shouldnt vote
  • Slow As Kieran
    1676 posts Play-Off Hero
    Reus wrote: »
    Guvnor wrote: »
    You should all vote guys. It's very simple get a postal vote, you don't even need to leave your house then.

    People who arent informed shouldnt vote

    This. I am not gonna vote because someone tells me I should. If i had any idea what any of it meant I would vote. But i don't, so I don't.
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    Well if the 21 year olds of our country had voted previously then Brexit wouldn't of come about and we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

    Everyone should vote, didn't realise I would have to add that they should also at least pay attention to each parties manifesto so they had some idea, thought that was self explanatory.
  • Guvnor
    1641 posts Play-Off Hero
    If you are uninformed ask your mum and dad, they will 90 percent of the time vote for the party you would vote for. The two usually go hand in hand.
  • Jakey_Hibee86
    161 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    I wonder how much the govt. would raise if all builders/tradesmen stopped getting paid cash and actually had to pay taxes.
  • BrentfordFC
    13145 posts Has That Special Something
    100 notifications :lol:

    Some stupid stuff people have posted. Why should higher paid people pay more tax?

    This is Britain. You work, input money to the country, and it goes round in a circle. If we don't give to the system what's the point of being here?

  • Slow As Kieran
    1676 posts Play-Off Hero
    Guvnor wrote: »
    If you are uninformed ask your mum and dad, they will 90 percent of the time vote for the party you would vote for. The two usually go hand in hand.

    Whatever you say doesn't change my opinion and reason for not voting. If i read a manifesto it would not change anything, i have no interest in it all YET. So I am not gonna start reading manifestos that i dont understand.

    Also, whats to say my parents aren't the type of people that choose one party and vote for them no matter what. They could be voting for the 'wrong' party for all i know, and me voting for who they chose without knowing anything myself is worse than me not voting IMO.

    And you're saying that 21 year olds not voting caused brexit. A lot of the people my age who didn't vote could have voted out, rather than not voting at all.
  • TOMMYxCOOPER
    4101 posts National Call-Up
    the tories are doing there best to blow a 5-0 lead at half time :D

    lets face it..may only got the job because they stabbed boris in the back

    already well known boris would have thrashed her in a tory members vote but they got rid of him

    now there paying the price
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