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General election!

Comments

  • Coops
    5095 posts Big Money Move
    Recardo wrote: »
    hasan09876 wrote: »
    Recardo wrote: »
    Coops wrote: »
    Addicksfan wrote: »
    I'm voting conservative.

    Labour's manifesto will bankrupt this country and Corbyn and Abbott are a double act I do not want leading this country.

    I am all for spreading the wealth via higher rates of taxation but not if that means a family living on the breadline would rather spend what money they have on cigarettes and having the latest iphone than feeding their children....my wife is a social worker and sees this all too often....

    First of all, addiction to smoking, like any other addition, is an illness.

    .

    rubbish.

    you can quit smoking.

    you cant quit illness.

    You can quit both

    you can quit an illness?

    please share.

    Presumably mate you're talking to us from beyond the grave here having died of the flu
  • Recardo
    9099 posts League Winner
    Coops wrote: »
    Recardo wrote: »
    hasan09876 wrote: »
    Recardo wrote: »
    Coops wrote: »
    Addicksfan wrote: »
    I'm voting conservative.

    Labour's manifesto will bankrupt this country and Corbyn and Abbott are a double act I do not want leading this country.

    I am all for spreading the wealth via higher rates of taxation but not if that means a family living on the breadline would rather spend what money they have on cigarettes and having the latest iphone than feeding their children....my wife is a social worker and sees this all too often....

    First of all, addiction to smoking, like any other addition, is an illness.

    .

    rubbish.

    you can quit smoking.

    you cant quit illness.

    You can quit both

    you can quit an illness?

    please share.

    Presumably mate you're talking to us from beyond the grave here having died of the flu

    i suffer with kidney disease. it hasn't killed me yet, one day maybe.

  • AnDrEwThEdOn
    17267 posts World Class
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This.
  • Everton1878
    2210 posts Fans' Favourite
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.
  • Bob_Dylan
    19409 posts World Class
    Not allowed to vote obviously but Labour all day
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Addicksfan wrote: »
    I'm voting conservative.

    Labour's manifesto will bankrupt this country and Corbyn and Abbott are a double act I do not want leading this country.

    I am all for spreading the wealth via higher rates of taxation but not if that means a family living on the breadline would rather spend what money they have on cigarettes and having the latest iphone than feeding their children....my wife is a social worker and sees this all too often....

    The Tories have missed every target they've set themselves, and have borrowed more money since 2010 than Labour have in the history of the country.

    Why does it matter to you what other people spend their money on?
  • Sanchezzzz
    4333 posts National Call-Up
    All people seem to do in these arguments on here is pull statistics and news articles out of their ❤️❤️❤️❤️.
  • Peake
    894 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

  • Sanchezzzz
    4333 posts National Call-Up
    @Peake if you genuinely believe that Labour are capable of running this country again I seriously feel for you.
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Sanchezzzz wrote: »
    @Peake if you genuinely believe that Labour are capable of running this country again I seriously feel for you.

    #PrayforPeake
  • AnDrEwThEdOn
    17267 posts World Class
    Sanchezzzz wrote: »
    @Peake if you genuinely believe that Labour are capable of running this country again I seriously feel for you.

    I mean, the tories are doing such a good job, why change it eh?
  • Everton1878
    2210 posts Fans' Favourite
    Peake wrote: »
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

    I assume you read the guardian so there you go. "The thinktank’s deputy director, Carl Emmerson, accused Labour of “pretending that everything can be paid for” under plans to raise taxes on the richest, many of whom will avoid paying higher rates of tax."

    Now I'm not saying it's right that rich avoid paying tax, but this is the real world, and they will do it regardless of who is in power.

    In terms of national debt, again here you go, an independent evaluation. Essentially, Labout constantly misrepresent facts constantly.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/half-trillion-pounds-borrowing-under-labour/

    Conservatives were left with a huge deficit, they've reduced it by 2/3. You can't make a comparison saying they've borrowed most - of course they have. They were left the largest deficit and inflation since 1930 means you have to borrow a hell of a lot more now to get the same amount. Labour pay debt back more often because they're only ever elected in the middle of a boom - they should pay back a hell of a lot more than they do. See exactly when they paid back and when here : https://fullfact.org/economy/guide-economy-deficit-41940/.

    The fact still remains is, this is MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and having the opinion doesn't make me racist, or selfish, or self serving. I want our NHS to be amazing, I don't want people using food banks, I don't want people to barely scrape by, but I think the way to achieve these things is with a strong economy, not empty, uncosted promises.
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Peake wrote: »
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

    I assume you read the guardian so there you go. "The thinktank’s deputy director, Carl Emmerson, accused Labour of “pretending that everything can be paid for” under plans to raise taxes on the richest, many of whom will avoid paying higher rates of tax."

    Now I'm not saying it's right that rich avoid paying tax, but this is the real world, and they will do it regardless of who is in power.

    In terms of national debt, again here you go, an independent evaluation. Essentially, Labout constantly misrepresent facts constantly.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/half-trillion-pounds-borrowing-under-labour/

    Conservatives were left with a huge deficit, they've reduced it by 2/3. You can't make a comparison saying they've borrowed most - of course they have. They were left the largest deficit and inflation since 1930 means you have to borrow a hell of a lot more now to get the same amount. Labour pay debt back more often because they're only ever elected in the middle of a boom - they should pay back a hell of a lot more than they do. See exactly when they paid back and when here : https://fullfact.org/economy/guide-economy-deficit-41940/.

    The fact still remains is, this is MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and having the opinion doesn't make me racist, or selfish, or self serving. I want our NHS to be amazing, I don't want people using food banks, I don't want people to barely scrape by, but I think the way to achieve these things is with a strong economy, not empty, uncosted promises.

    Of course it's not a perfect comparison. But some facts that are:

    The Conservative Manifesto is UNCOSTED
    The UK has underperformed against comparable countries since 2010
    The Conservatives have destabilised the country for the forseeable future with Brexit
    The Conservatives have missed EVERY one of their own economic targets

    With your attention to the deficit, here are some countries with fiscal deficits less than ours:

    Sweden
    Estonia
    Slovakia
    Slovenia
    PORTUGAL
    Poland
    Netherlands
    Malta
    Luxembourg
    Lithuania
    Latvia
    Hungary
    GREECE
    Germany
    Finland
    Denmark
    Czech Republic
    Croatia
    Bulgaria
    Cyprus
    Belgium
    Austria
    Italy

    Do you know that only three countries in the whole of the EU have a worse deficit as factor of GDP?

    Let's get rid of the myth that Britain is a well managed economy. It absolutely is not.
  • Peake
    894 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Peake wrote: »
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

    I assume you read the guardian so there you go. "The thinktank’s deputy director, Carl Emmerson, accused Labour of “pretending that everything can be paid for” under plans to raise taxes on the richest, many of whom will avoid paying higher rates of tax."

    Now I'm not saying it's right that rich avoid paying tax, but this is the real world, and they will do it regardless of who is in power.

    In terms of national debt, again here you go, an independent evaluation. Essentially, Labout constantly misrepresent facts constantly.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/half-trillion-pounds-borrowing-under-labour/

    Conservatives were left with a huge deficit, they've reduced it by 2/3. You can't make a comparison saying they've borrowed most - of course they have. They were left the largest deficit and inflation since 1930 means you have to borrow a hell of a lot more now to get the same amount. Labour pay debt back more often because they're only ever elected in the middle of a boom - they should pay back a hell of a lot more than they do. See exactly when they paid back and when here : https://fullfact.org/economy/guide-economy-deficit-41940/.

    The fact still remains is, this is MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and having the opinion doesn't make me racist, or selfish, or self serving. I want our NHS to be amazing, I don't want people using food banks, I don't want people to barely scrape by, but I think the way to achieve these things is with a strong economy, not empty, uncosted promises.

    We can go on like this all day. I can respect someone's opinion who has clearly put a lot of thought and research into it so fair play mate we will have to agree to disagree.

    I apologise for labelling you self-serving, should've worded it better. @Sanchezzzz can do one though :joy:
  • fluffymnuffy
    12771 posts Has That Special Something
    @mods so I get threatened with a ban for these but others can open them without any intervention?
  • Everton1878
    2210 posts Fans' Favourite
    Peake wrote: »
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

    I assume you read the guardian so there you go. "The thinktank’s deputy director, Carl Emmerson, accused Labour of “pretending that everything can be paid for” under plans to raise taxes on the richest, many of whom will avoid paying higher rates of tax."

    Now I'm not saying it's right that rich avoid paying tax, but this is the real world, and they will do it regardless of who is in power.

    In terms of national debt, again here you go, an independent evaluation. Essentially, Labout constantly misrepresent facts constantly.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/half-trillion-pounds-borrowing-under-labour/

    Conservatives were left with a huge deficit, they've reduced it by 2/3. You can't make a comparison saying they've borrowed most - of course they have. They were left the largest deficit and inflation since 1930 means you have to borrow a hell of a lot more now to get the same amount. Labour pay debt back more often because they're only ever elected in the middle of a boom - they should pay back a hell of a lot more than they do. See exactly when they paid back and when here : https://fullfact.org/economy/guide-economy-deficit-41940/.

    The fact still remains is, this is MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and having the opinion doesn't make me racist, or selfish, or self serving. I want our NHS to be amazing, I don't want people using food banks, I don't want people to barely scrape by, but I think the way to achieve these things is with a strong economy, not empty, uncosted promises.

    Of course it's not a perfect comparison. But some facts that are:

    The Conservative Manifesto is UNCOSTED
    The UK has underperformed against comparable countries since 2010
    The Conservatives have destabilised the country for the forseeable future with Brexit
    The Conservatives have missed EVERY one of their own economic targets

    With your attention to the deficit, here are some countries with fiscal deficits less than ours:

    Sweden
    Estonia
    Slovakia
    Slovenia
    PORTUGAL
    Poland
    Netherlands
    Malta
    Luxembourg
    Lithuania
    Latvia
    Hungary
    GREECE
    Germany
    Finland
    Denmark
    Czech Republic
    Croatia
    Bulgaria
    Cyprus
    Belgium
    Austria
    Italy

    Do you know that only three countries in the whole of the EU have a worse deficit as factor of GDP?

    Let's get rid of the myth that Britain is a well managed economy. It absolutely is not.

    Again, my opinion is Tory's manage the economy better than Labour. However, as you have given "facts".

    The Conservative Manifesto is UNCOSTED - As is Labours - some pretty numbers don't make it costed if they aren't correct

    The UK has underperformed against comparable countries since 2010 Simply not true - https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-still-fastest-growing-g7-economy/

    The Conservatives have destabilised the country for the forseeable future with Brexit Incorrect. The country voted and chose to leave. The conservatives merely gave the people the choice - unless you aren't a fan of democracy and would prefer a dictatorship where we're told what is best for us?

    The Conservatives have missed EVERY one of their own economic targets Correct. What makes you think Labour would have achieved them?
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited June 2017
    Peake wrote: »
    Peake wrote: »
    I cannot understand how anyone who cares about the country and its people, who isn't self-serving, could vote conservative.

    Labours manifesto has been costed, conservative hasn't.

    May couldn't even turn up to the debate last night. She takes rent-a-tories wherever she goes. She only allows selected press members to her campaigning with all questions vetted beforehand. When someone does manage to interview her on tv she's a wreck. How does anyone fall for this? Their arrogance is astounding.

    Her voting history is scary.

    U2l5RUK.jpg?1

    When we question how the 5th richest country in the world is paying for hospitals and how they would pay for free education.. the brainwashing is real :joy:

    This is everything that is wrong with Labour currently.

    I am a student, who's in a long term relationship with someone who's only career choice is in the NHS (speech therapy), with a job offer to work in the civil service. Voting Labour for me would be, as you so "eloquently" put it, self-serving.

    However, as hard as it is for a lot of Labour voters to fathom, I can be presented with the same facts you have, and come to a vastly different conclusion. Do I think Tory's always get it right? No. But Corbyn's manifesto is not costed. Anymore than through my student life my lifestyle has been budgeted. Sure, I've written numbers that I hope will work, but it doesn't work. Same with Corbyn. He's written down a few fanciful numbers, and then his disciples have gobbled it up. The institute for fiscal studies (an independent body) has said it isn't slightly costed, and Labour are completely misleading the electorate.

    So I will vote Tory, not because I'm self-serving. Labour would leave me personally better off. But I think, and this is my opinion - unlike Labour I'm not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and anyone who disagrees is selfish, self-serving, racist - I think Corbyn will bankrupt the country, and I think whilst the Tory's will leave a lot of people worse off, they provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    I'm not going to clog up the thread with a wall of text but in response to your IFS comment, you should give this a read when you have a minute. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/but-do-numbers-add-up.html?m=1

    Why do you think Corbyn will bankrupt the country? Since 2010 the Conservatives have increased the national debt by more than any previous Labour government combined. Research in 2016 shows that the Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years. It also showed that Labour repay the national debt far more often. Again, far too often it's just the media pushing out their agenda to condition the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

    I assume you read the guardian so there you go. "The thinktank’s deputy director, Carl Emmerson, accused Labour of “pretending that everything can be paid for” under plans to raise taxes on the richest, many of whom will avoid paying higher rates of tax."

    Now I'm not saying it's right that rich avoid paying tax, but this is the real world, and they will do it regardless of who is in power.

    In terms of national debt, again here you go, an independent evaluation. Essentially, Labout constantly misrepresent facts constantly.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/
    https://fullfact.org/economy/half-trillion-pounds-borrowing-under-labour/

    Conservatives were left with a huge deficit, they've reduced it by 2/3. You can't make a comparison saying they've borrowed most - of course they have. They were left the largest deficit and inflation since 1930 means you have to borrow a hell of a lot more now to get the same amount. Labour pay debt back more often because they're only ever elected in the middle of a boom - they should pay back a hell of a lot more than they do. See exactly when they paid back and when here : https://fullfact.org/economy/guide-economy-deficit-41940/.

    The fact still remains is, this is MY opinion. I am entitled to it, and having the opinion doesn't make me racist, or selfish, or self serving. I want our NHS to be amazing, I don't want people using food banks, I don't want people to barely scrape by, but I think the way to achieve these things is with a strong economy, not empty, uncosted promises.

    Of course it's not a perfect comparison. But some facts that are:

    The Conservative Manifesto is UNCOSTED
    The UK has underperformed against comparable countries since 2010
    The Conservatives have destabilised the country for the forseeable future with Brexit
    The Conservatives have missed EVERY one of their own economic targets

    With your attention to the deficit, here are some countries with fiscal deficits less than ours:

    Sweden
    Estonia
    Slovakia
    Slovenia
    PORTUGAL
    Poland
    Netherlands
    Malta
    Luxembourg
    Lithuania
    Latvia
    Hungary
    GREECE
    Germany
    Finland
    Denmark
    Czech Republic
    Croatia
    Bulgaria
    Cyprus
    Belgium
    Austria
    Italy

    Do you know that only three countries in the whole of the EU have a worse deficit as factor of GDP?

    Let's get rid of the myth that Britain is a well managed economy. It absolutely is not.

    Again, my opinion is Tory's manage the economy better than Labour. However, as you have given "facts".

    The Conservative Manifesto is UNCOSTED - As is Labours - some pretty numbers don't make it costed if they aren't correct

    The UK has underperformed against comparable countries since 2010 Simply not true - https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-still-fastest-growing-g7-economy/

    The Conservatives have destabilised the country for the forseeable future with Brexit Incorrect. The country voted and chose to leave. The conservatives merely gave the people the choice - unless you aren't a fan of democracy and would prefer a dictatorship where we're told what is best for us?

    The Conservatives have missed EVERY one of their own economic targets Correct. What makes you think Labour would have achieved them?

    No sir.

    As far as rebuttals go, you can't respond to fair criticism by arguing without evidence that "well, you couldn't have done it either". You (Conservatives) are being criticised for failing to meet your own target. The only acceptable response is to justify why this was not the case.

    The Brexit vote was raised to deal with an internal Tory party issue. It has completely destabilised the country. Even amongst those who support Brexit, the lack of any coherent plan (or any plan at all!) is immensely unsatisfactory.

    It's quite a jump to suggest that the alternative is that I support a dictatorship. What I expect is for politicians to be open, honest, capable, and to show integrity. I see absolutely none of that in the current Tory cabinet.

    Last time I checked we vote Yes or No. if you respect democracy, then equally you should understand any motivation to ensure that Brexit is a transparent process. The vote was not a blank cheque to do whatever they like, and without parliamentary approval. The challenge to the Supreme Court was an absolute farce.
  • ChrisLFC
    7296 posts Big Money Move
    @mods so I get threatened with a ban for these but others can open them without any intervention?

    You're a complete ❤️❤️❤️❤️ though
  • M98H
    13637 posts Has That Special Something
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

  • dylwms
    2306 posts Fans' Favourite
    I'll be voting plaid cymru as always :)
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Lets tax no one.
  • Jackadinho
    1655 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited June 2017
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more
  • Recardo
    9099 posts League Winner
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    they already do though.

  • Matt_Cornwall
    3529 posts National Call-Up
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    I think he means paying a higher % rate the more you earn.

    Do you mean they should contribute more as a £ amount or more as a % of their salary? Because I'm sure in 99% of cases they do contribute more as a £ amount.
  • Jackadinho
    1655 posts Play-Off Hero
    Jackadinho wrote: »
    MH1203 wrote: »
    The fact he wants to tax people earning more than £70,000 is a joke.
    Ever think they might have earned that money working there ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off for it?

    Biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. Everyone has to pay some tax you moron it's only right the ones who earn more should contribute a bit more

    I think he means paying a higher % rate the more you earn.

    Do you mean they should contribute more as a £ amount or more as a % of their salary? Because I'm sure in 99% of cases they do contribute more as a £ amount.

    Yeah I mean I get that they already do I think I just took from his post that he thought it wasn't right that people who earn £70,000 shouldn't have to pay as much tax because they "work hard"
  • chaz
    1905 posts Play-Off Hero
    The national debt has risen around £700 mil under the Tories in the last 7 years. To 1.7 trillion pounds. :lol:
    1. How is that even possible!?
    2. The idea that the Tories are such a financially sound and reliable party is absolutely laughable.
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