Aston Villa F.C.

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  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited May 2015
    Ash wrote: »
    :D

    Thanks for the informative input.
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    At this time he is better than Falcao, Van Persie, Welbeck, Giroud, Dzeko, Drogba, Bony, Jovetic and Remy. So that's all of the top 4 that he'd improve the squads of.

    That doesn't mean he's good enough, and a few of those are highly debatable.

    It clearly does. I'd love to know which of these you think are highly debatable and why? Giroud? Maybe, anyone else? He's playing better than any of them, ergo he is good enough to play for them. Lets put it this way, he's too good to waste his career at a "nearly" club.

    Bony and Remy are questionable, especially the former. Benteke is not good enough to start for a title-winning side and as that is what all of those four should be aiming to do, he is not good enough. You're right in saying £30m strikers are for top 4 teams, but he's not a £30m striker (he shouldn't be anyway). The only way you can possibly say he is good enough is as a substitute and you'd be mad to pay £30m for somebody you intend to be substitute. Who is a "nearly" club?

    Bony 2 goals in 10 for City, Remy 9 in 29 for Chelsea, Benteke 15 in 32 for Villa and that's with playing for a terrible manager for half the season.
    City paid £28 million for Bony, so nigh on £30m and he's sat on their bench, so I maintain that Benteke could equally play for a top 4 side. Top four sides are not all about their starting 11.

    Part of the fee comes from the fact that we are a reasonably well off club, we don't have fake investment like City and Chelsea, but we have enough that we are in no need to sell. I would imagine if Benteke played for Leicester, for example, he wouldn't be worth 30 million no. But to us, he is that's the way this game works. We went through the same thing with Gareth Barry a few years ago, Liverpool telling us he was too expensive but we wouldn't sell because we don't need to. He ended up going to City for more a season later.

    The nearly club I'm referring to is Liverpool.
  • MJP
    5944 posts Big Money Move
    I'll be distraught if Benteke leaves, especially if we win the cup on Sunday.

    Would be the darkest day of the club's history.
    Would it not be nice for him to win a trophy on his final game and then go for a ridiculous amount of money?
  • Evra
    2236 posts Fans' Favourite
    If he played for Leicester in those last 10 games of the season he probably would be valued at £30m. Bony is far more gifted technically and even he's struggling to make any impact at City. Villa are currently a little below Benteke's level but he's not much better than the Lukaku's of this world, for example.
  • Farlz
    8558 posts League Winner
    I'll be distraught if Benteke leaves, especially if we win the cup on Sunday.

    Would be the darkest day of the club's history.
    Christ, it wouldn't be that bad :D

    However much money we get though, we're never going to replace him properly. He has a 1 in 2 record playing in the worst Villa teams I've ever seen and has pretty much carried us himself through the 3 seasons he's been at the club.

    I don't think many realise how good he actually is.

  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Evra wrote: »
    If he played for Leicester in those last 10 games of the season he probably would be valued at £30m. Bony is far more gifted technically and even he's struggling to make any impact at City. Villa are currently a little below Benteke's level but he's not much better than the Lukaku's of this world, for example.

    You mean the same Lukaku who played for Chelsea and then went to Everton for £28 million? He's slightly better than £28 million? £30 million maybe? :)

    I'm not saying he's going to knock Aguero out of the team, all I'm saying is he good enough to play for these clubs.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Farlz wrote: »
    I'll be distraught if Benteke leaves, especially if we win the cup on Sunday.

    Would be the darkest day of the club's history.
    Christ, it wouldn't be that bad :D

    However much money we get though, we're never going to replace him properly. He has a 1 in 2 record playing in the worst Villa teams I've ever seen and has pretty much carried us himself through the 3 seasons he's been at the club.

    I don't think many realise how good he actually is.

    Spot on, people looking at FIFA stats nothing else.
  • Evra
    2236 posts Fans' Favourite
    He also averages a 60%~ passing accuracy rate. It's all well and good leading the line for an Aston Villa side granted the capacity to play on the counter and with Benteke only needing to hold the ball up to get the counter attacks going, but when playing for a top four side it's a different style of football. He wouldn't match Dzeko's or Giroud's ability at that - he's too weak technically. And even they need replacing. Yes, I mean exactly that Lukaku - one who was scoring for fun at a mid/low table side in West Brom but could not cut the grade at a then only top four Chelsea side. He's now at his level, which is about Benteke's level too.

    Your retreat to this 'I just think he could play there because X and then Y' is weak. Playing as a second or third choice striker to United/Arsenal/Chelsea is immaterial. So could Charlie Austin. Or Danny Ings. Probably even the likes of Ayoze Perez, Lukaku, Long etc...
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    Robes wrote: »
    Ash wrote: »
    :D

    Thanks for the informative input.
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    At this time he is better than Falcao, Van Persie, Welbeck, Giroud, Dzeko, Drogba, Bony, Jovetic and Remy. So that's all of the top 4 that he'd improve the squads of.

    That doesn't mean he's good enough, and a few of those are highly debatable.

    It clearly does. I'd love to know which of these you think are highly debatable and why? Giroud? Maybe, anyone else? He's playing better than any of them, ergo he is good enough to play for them. Lets put it this way, he's too good to waste his career at a "nearly" club.

    Bony and Remy are questionable, especially the former. Benteke is not good enough to start for a title-winning side and as that is what all of those four should be aiming to do, he is not good enough. You're right in saying £30m strikers are for top 4 teams, but he's not a £30m striker (he shouldn't be anyway). The only way you can possibly say he is good enough is as a substitute and you'd be mad to pay £30m for somebody you intend to be substitute. Who is a "nearly" club?

    Bony 2 goals in 10 for City, Remy 9 in 29 for Chelsea, Benteke 15 in 32 for Villa and that's with playing for a terrible manager for half the season.
    City paid £28 million for Bony, so nigh on £30m and he's sat on their bench, so I maintain that Benteke could equally play for a top 4 side. Top four sides are not all about their starting 11.

    Part of the fee comes from the fact that we are a reasonably well off club, we don't have fake investment like City and Chelsea, but we have enough that we are in no need to sell. I would imagine if Benteke played for Leicester, for example, he wouldn't be worth 30 million no. But to us, he is that's the way this game works. We went through the same thing with Gareth Barry a few years ago, Liverpool telling us he was too expensive but we wouldn't sell because we don't need to. He ended up going to City for more a season later.

    The nearly club I'm referring to is Liverpool.

    :D You actually believe this. Bony was a dreadful transfer for Manchester City, but he's still better than Benteke. These are players that don't start for their clubs (Remy and Bony) because they aren't good enough. Also, Bony and Remy have far better mins/goal records than Benteke, just going by goals/games played is stupid when they aren't starters.

    Benteke mins/goal - 183

    Mins/goal at top 4 clubs:
    Bony - 148
    Remy - 121
    Giroud - 132
    Dzeko - 233
    Drogba - 217
    van Persie - 210
    Jovetic - 156
    Falcao - 322

    As you can see, Bony, Remy, Giroud and even Jovetic have better mins/goal records and none of those players are good enough to be starting for title winning sides. Benteke isn't a top 4 striker.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Evra wrote: »
    He also averages a 60%~ passing accuracy rate. It's all well and good leading the line for an Aston Villa side granted the capacity to play on the counter and with Benteke only needing to hold the ball up to get the counter attacks going, but when playing for a top four side it's a different style of football. He wouldn't match Dzeko's or Giroud's ability at that - he's too weak technically. And even they need replacing. Yes, I mean exactly that Lukaku - one who was scoring for fun at a mid/low table side in West Brom but could not cut the grade at a then only top four Chelsea side. He's now at his level, which is about Benteke's level too.

    Your retreat to this 'I just think he could play there because X and then Y' is weak. Playing as a second or third choice striker to United/Arsenal/Chelsea is immaterial. So could Charlie Austin. Or Danny Ings. Probably even the likes of Ayoze Perez, Lukaku, Long etc...

    Right if you're going to comment could you at least be clear in exactly what it is you're saying. You quote an arbitrary stat, that's neither accurate or in context, then tell me he's not technically good enough because if it, without supplying any more information.

    My point is, does Dzeko(for example) play for City? Yes. Has he ever been Citys first choice? No. Are City a top 4 side? Yes. Is it debatable that Benteke is a better player than Dzeko? Yes. I'm not retreating to anything, what I'm saying is that the argument he isn't good enough to play for a top 4 side is rubbish, plenty of players who are not as good as Benteke have done so, so the point is moot.

  • Evra
    2236 posts Fans' Favourite
    So they're just going to pay £32.5m to replace a third choice striker? Awesome!
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Ash wrote: »
    :D

    Thanks for the informative input.
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    At this time he is better than Falcao, Van Persie, Welbeck, Giroud, Dzeko, Drogba, Bony, Jovetic and Remy. So that's all of the top 4 that he'd improve the squads of.

    That doesn't mean he's good enough, and a few of those are highly debatable.

    It clearly does. I'd love to know which of these you think are highly debatable and why? Giroud? Maybe, anyone else? He's playing better than any of them, ergo he is good enough to play for them. Lets put it this way, he's too good to waste his career at a "nearly" club.

    Bony and Remy are questionable, especially the former. Benteke is not good enough to start for a title-winning side and as that is what all of those four should be aiming to do, he is not good enough. You're right in saying £30m strikers are for top 4 teams, but he's not a £30m striker (he shouldn't be anyway). The only way you can possibly say he is good enough is as a substitute and you'd be mad to pay £30m for somebody you intend to be substitute. Who is a "nearly" club?

    Bony 2 goals in 10 for City, Remy 9 in 29 for Chelsea, Benteke 15 in 32 for Villa and that's with playing for a terrible manager for half the season.
    City paid £28 million for Bony, so nigh on £30m and he's sat on their bench, so I maintain that Benteke could equally play for a top 4 side. Top four sides are not all about their starting 11.

    Part of the fee comes from the fact that we are a reasonably well off club, we don't have fake investment like City and Chelsea, but we have enough that we are in no need to sell. I would imagine if Benteke played for Leicester, for example, he wouldn't be worth 30 million no. But to us, he is that's the way this game works. We went through the same thing with Gareth Barry a few years ago, Liverpool telling us he was too expensive but we wouldn't sell because we don't need to. He ended up going to City for more a season later.

    The nearly club I'm referring to is Liverpool.

    :D You actually believe this. Bony was a dreadful transfer for Manchester City, but he's still better than Benteke. These are players that don't start for their clubs (Remy and Bony) because they aren't good enough. Also, Bony and Remy have far better mins/goal records than Benteke, just going by goals/games played is stupid when they aren't starters.

    Benteke mins/goal - 183

    Mins/goal at top 4 clubs:
    Bony - 148
    Remy - 121
    Giroud - 132
    Dzeko - 233
    Drogba - 217
    van Persie - 210
    Jovetic - 156
    Falcao - 322

    As you can see, Bony, Remy, Giroud and even Jovetic have better mins/goal records and none of those players are good enough to be starting for title winning sides. Benteke isn't a top 4 striker.

    They are also all playing for top 4 sides, who be definition score more goals. So this makes ANY comparison pointless doesn't it? In fact the only way you could compare two strikers would be if they played for the same team in the same games. You're just proving what a load of rubbish stats are.

    Don't know how many times I have to hammer this point but, you don't have to start every game to be good enough to play for a top 4 side.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Evra wrote: »
    So they're just going to pay £32.5m to replace a third choice striker? Awesome!

    As I said, I personally think Arsenal would be best for him, where he would be first choice striker IMO.
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    Robes wrote: »
    Evra wrote: »
    So they're just going to pay £32.5m to replace a third choice striker? Awesome!

    As I said, I personally think Arsenal would be best for him, where he would be first choice striker IMO.

    He'd be the worst possible acquisition for Arsenal. Not good enough, very overpriced and would condemn us to no new, top quality striker for another few years.
    Don't know how many times I have to hammer this point but, you don't have to start every game to be good enough to play for a top 4 side.

    Then what's the point? As Evra said, there are plenty of strikers that are capable of being tolerable back-up strikers for top 4 sides. Austin, Long, Lukaku, Valencia, Ings, etc. Good enough to be a substitute for top 4 means he's around the average/slightly above average mark, where there are plenty of other players. Why would clubs pay £32.5m for a substitute when they can get players of a similar ability for half of that? He would be a ludicrous signing for anybody inside the top four, he's not good enough to start so he is nothing special. Liverpool are the very best he should be at and that's at a push.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Jenko wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Evra wrote: »
    So they're just going to pay £32.5m to replace a third choice striker? Awesome!

    As I said, I personally think Arsenal would be best for him, where he would be first choice striker IMO.

    He'd be the worst possible acquisition for Arsenal. Not good enough, very overpriced and would condemn us to no new, top quality striker for another few years.
    Don't know how many times I have to hammer this point but, you don't have to start every game to be good enough to play for a top 4 side.

    Then what's the point? As Evra said, there are plenty of strikers that are capable of being tolerable back-up strikers for top 4 sides. Austin, Long, Lukaku, Valencia, Ings, etc. Good enough to be a substitute for top 4 means he's around the average/slightly above average mark, where there are plenty of other players. Why would clubs pay £32.5m for a substitute when they can get players of a similar ability for half of that? He would be a ludicrous signing for anybody inside the top four, he's not good enough to start so he is nothing special. Liverpool are the very best he should be at and that's at a push.

    Simply, and I'm very bored of saying this, he is around Bonys level. Bony was around £30 million. He is a lot better than all the other players you mention, that's why they'd be around half his price it's not rocket science.

    Hopefully you'll see this weekend, then maybe you'll open your eyes.

    As a side note... who do you propose Arsenal should buy? Who would go to you who's so great?
  • maTTeOs_mAZzA
    3259 posts National Call-Up
    Saying Benteke isn't good enough to play for a top 4 side when he hasn't actually done so is utterly ridiculous. :D
  • maTTeOs_mAZzA
    3259 posts National Call-Up
    edited May 2015
    Go ahead and throw more stats into this thread. They don't mean anything. Some of you fail to realise that recovering from a serious achilles rupture can be a very long drawn out process, and he's still managed to end the season with a decent goal tally.

  • Farlz
    8558 posts League Winner
    edited May 2015
    Benteke is miles better than all the strikers mentioned in these past few posts except for probably Bony, even then its very close.

    There's no doubt for me he could play in a top 4 side, he isn't just a massive lump, there's a lot more to his game.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Farlz wrote: »
    Benteke is miles better than all the strikers mentioned in these past few posts except for probably Bony, even then its very close.

    There's no doubt for me he could play in a top 4 side, he isn't just a massive lump, there's a lot more to his game.

    I know they're acting like he shouldn't be £32.5 million, I think if we sell him for that then someone's robbed us.
  • maTTeOs_mAZzA
    3259 posts National Call-Up
    The ignorance in some people amazes me. There's probably still some out there that rate Balotelli higher. :D

  • maTTeOs_mAZzA
    3259 posts National Call-Up
    MJP wrote: »
    I'll be distraught if Benteke leaves, especially if we win the cup on Sunday.

    Would be the darkest day of the club's history.
    Would it not be nice for him to win a trophy on his final game and then go for a ridiculous amount of money?

    30 mil isn't exactly ridiculous, considering the value of most players in the modern game.

  • Evra
    2236 posts Fans' Favourite
    Robes wrote: »
    Farlz wrote: »
    Benteke is miles better than all the strikers mentioned in these past few posts except for probably Bony, even then its very close.

    There's no doubt for me he could play in a top 4 side, he isn't just a massive lump, there's a lot more to his game.

    I know they're acting like he shouldn't be £32.5 million, I think if we sell him for that then someone's robbed us.
    :joy:
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    Evra wrote: »
    Robes wrote: »
    Farlz wrote: »
    Benteke is miles better than all the strikers mentioned in these past few posts except for probably Bony, even then its very close.

    There's no doubt for me he could play in a top 4 side, he isn't just a massive lump, there's a lot more to his game.

    I know they're acting like he shouldn't be £32.5 million, I think if we sell him for that then someone's robbed us.
    :joy:

    Ah I can see the witty well thought out replies are still coming....
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    edited May 2015
    You GENUINELY think he's worth £32.5 million for **** sake, what's the point in me responding? Bony cost £25m and at the time everybody was laughing at City for overpaying. Bony is a technically superior footballer and cost almost a third less, so how on earth Benteke can possibly be worth £32.5 million I do not know.

    Liverpool will probably pay the £32.5 million because they need to take a risk, they're desperate, he's what they can attract. They're not paying it because that's what he's worth. He's a £20m striker max. The players I mentioned could all do a similar job to Benteke as back-up strikers for the top clubs, which is all Benteke would amount to.

    £30m strikers are Costa, Benzema, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski, etc. not Christian Benteke.
  • Robes
    1735 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited May 2015
    Jenko wrote: »
    You GENUINELY think he's worth £32.5 million for **** sake, what's the point in me responding? Bony cost £25m and at the time everybody was laughing at City for overpaying. Bony is a technically superior footballer and cost almost a third less, so how on earth Benteke can possibly be worth £32.5 million I do not know.

    Liverpool will probably pay the £32.5 million because they need to take a risk, they're desperate, he's what they can attract. They're not paying it because that's what he's worth. He's a £20m striker max. The players I mentioned could all do a similar job to Benteke as back-up strikers for the top clubs, which is all Benteke would amount to.

    £30m strikers are Costa, Benzema, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski, etc. not Christian Benteke.

    In all honesty I have no idea what the point in you responding is, in fact I don't know why you even bothered coming into this thread. Now we're both questioning it.......

    ALL of those players you mentioned are worth FAR more than 30 million in todays market, so it show how little you do know.

    "Manchester United are preparing to join Arsenal in the hunt to sign Real Madrid striker Karim Benzema, 27, who is valued at around £40m. "

  • maTTeOs_mAZzA
    3259 posts National Call-Up
    Jenko wrote: »
    You GENUINELY think he's worth £32.5 million for **** sake, what's the point in me responding? Bony cost £25m and at the time everybody was laughing at City for overpaying. Bony is a technically superior footballer and cost almost a third less, so how on earth Benteke can possibly be worth £32.5 million I do not know.

    Liverpool will probably pay the £32.5 million because they need to take a risk, they're desperate, he's what they can attract. They're not paying it because that's what he's worth. He's a £20m striker max. The players I mentioned could all do a similar job to Benteke as back-up strikers for the top clubs, which is all Benteke would amount to.

    £30m strikers are Costa, Benzema, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski, etc. not Christian Benteke.

    That sums up your opinion really. :D
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    Robes wrote: »
    Jenko wrote: »
    You GENUINELY think he's worth £32.5 million for **** sake, what's the point in me responding? Bony cost £25m and at the time everybody was laughing at City for overpaying. Bony is a technically superior footballer and cost almost a third less, so how on earth Benteke can possibly be worth £32.5 million I do not know.

    Liverpool will probably pay the £32.5 million because they need to take a risk, they're desperate, he's what they can attract. They're not paying it because that's what he's worth. He's a £20m striker max. The players I mentioned could all do a similar job to Benteke as back-up strikers for the top clubs, which is all Benteke would amount to.

    £30m strikers are Costa, Benzema, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski, etc. not Christian Benteke.

    In all honesty I have no idea what the point in you responding is, in fact I don't know why you even bothered coming into this thread. Now we're both questioning it.......

    ALL of those players you mentioned are worth FAR more than 30 million in todays market, so it show how little you do know.

    "Manchester United are preparing to join Arsenal in the hunt to sign Real Madrid striker Karim Benzema, 27, who is valued at around £40m. "

    Because you were talking rubbish. I'm not questioning why I came into this thread, I'm questioning why I should bother replying to somebody who thinks Benteke is worth more than £32.5 million and thinks he's actually good enough for a top 4 team in any capacity other than a substitute role, for which you can get much cheaper players.

    No they aren't.

    6b957d1064e0705875b4b9a8007b4374.png
    f7fe6fdc4edf06f8f963ad35f190798a.png
    2c53b96170c25991b3f136d6edd52699.png
    581386b2f3e6dec30980bbec08650391.png

    Benzema's value changes every week. Christian Benteke is not near these players.
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    edited May 2015
    Jenko wrote: »
    You GENUINELY think he's worth £32.5 million for **** sake, what's the point in me responding? Bony cost £25m and at the time everybody was laughing at City for overpaying. Bony is a technically superior footballer and cost almost a third less, so how on earth Benteke can possibly be worth £32.5 million I do not know.

    Liverpool will probably pay the £32.5 million because they need to take a risk, they're desperate, he's what they can attract. They're not paying it because that's what he's worth. He's a £20m striker max. The players I mentioned could all do a similar job to Benteke as back-up strikers for the top clubs, which is all Benteke would amount to.

    £30m strikers are Costa, Benzema, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski, etc. not Christian Benteke.

    That sums up your opinion really. :D

    Correct? Or are you telling me that because Benteke doesn't play for a top team he's underrated, if he played for Chelsea he'd cost £60m ;););)
  • Ahmer50x
    20013 posts Club Captain
    IMO, Benteke is a very talented player, but he's only worth about 25m.

    Liverpool is a bad fit for him, because as Tim says, they don't cross the ball.
  • Farlz
    8558 posts League Winner
    I think it'd be stupid not to realise £32.5m is very good business for him. No matter how highly I rate him, that kind of money could help us out immensely.
  • Ash
    21413 posts Club Captain
    Robes wrote: »
    Farlz wrote: »
    Benteke is miles better than all the strikers mentioned in these past few posts except for probably Bony, even then its very close.

    There's no doubt for me he could play in a top 4 side, he isn't just a massive lump, there's a lot more to his game.

    I know they're acting like he shouldn't be £32.5 million, I think if we sell him for that then someone's robbed us.
    I'm astonished at this comment.
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