Why career mode will never be good...

1
Racso
17 posts Ball Boy
Ultimate team makes EA $650 million dollars a year.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/02/this-is-how-much-money-ea-makes-on-extra-content

Get your head round these numbers. Think about it. Over half a billion. A year.

Career mode is an absorbing mode which stops folks from playing FUT. Career mode is the enemy of FUT, which is why EA will intentionally keep it rubbish.

Ever wondered why the game has regen central defenders at 5"6, why the transfers all to one club mess up the game, why all squads from games become unbalanced, why there are a zillion problems with the mode? This is called "timed obsolescence". The game is intentionally designed to degrade so you get off career mode and start wasting money on FUT.

Career mode will remain awful until a rival like PES severely overtakes FIFA. That game could bypass Fifa's monopoly on legal rights with an online community all contributing to an editable database. But if there are any startup player/manager games out there being developed, I'm sure EA has the purchasing power to buy them out before they get any good.

The best hope is probably that PES comes good. But why is that game also perpetually rubbish? Konami too want their gamers wasting money on online modes.

I guess the point of this thread is to help readers from getting sucked into false hope that one EA will make a good career mode. It's not in their interest to do so.

Comments

  • It's a very good, sound well made statement
  • WizardMD
    663 posts An Exciting Prospect
    That's why I got PES instead, and I'm enjoying it a lot
  • Turf_Knights2016
    597 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited September 2016
    Tornado3k wrote: »
    It's a very good, sound well made statement

    Yeah, I support it also because people don't even know anymore what is good programming or game development they a blind bats with their hand out.

    If Career Mode had a true Dynamic A.i Engine in offline and with online multiplayer with out all the FUT crap the game would be worth more than half a billion because it would draw more people in that know about game development.

    BUT EA GAMES IS EVIL GREEDY CORPORATION!


    JaySan wrote: »
    You all blame FIFA and finally you purchase it every year. You deserve it :p

    Sadly, thats the choice they make and support the incompetent twisted development.................. http://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/comment/3457796/#Comment_3457796

    50918-Funny-Thumbs-Down-Emoticon-No-Emoticons.jpg

    Just Look - http://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/comment/3457034/#Comment_3457034

    Mind you that they carry the TRADE MARK of "FIFA" you would expect something of high standards but this is CHEAT CODE..........................

    lol-1.gif~c200
  • DescendingDLP
    3 posts Ball Boy
    edited September 2016
    I think the thread's premise that CM is competing with FUT is false. They both have different appeals:
    FUT:
    • Online gameplay
    • "Gamling" system
    CM:
    • Strategic decisionmaking
    • Realism
    • Developing your own prospects
    • Role playing aspects
    Many FIFA players play both modes. Enthusiastic FUT players wouldn't necessarily switch to CM if that one would be made better, and vice versa. The major reason why EA neglects CM so much is that the financial impact of unsatisfied CM fans is smaller than the one of unsatisfied FUT players.

    Personally, if CM gets neglected even more I won't switch to FUT (I tried out FUT for some time, I find it pretty dull). I will just not buy FIFA any more. This year I only bought the new FIFA because I got it for a fantastic price.

    Edit: If EA wanted, they could make more money out of CM. Make the game mode a lot better to appeal to more customers, then sell premium items, an app for managing "on the go", and so on.
  • Turf_Knights2016
    597 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited September 2016

    Edit: If EA wanted, they could make more money out of CM. Make the game mode a lot better to appeal to more customers, then sell premium items, an app for managing "on the go", and so on.

    I like how you think! :wink:

    That has been the theme of my posts since I registered here!

    If they ever do make a solid "Dynamic A.i Code", meaning serious programming for CPU vs USER and with Player vs Player online capability with no purchasing and no chem game revenue concepts just a nice clean straight game.

    Where you can apply yourself to learn tactics and enjoy a full-length 90-minute challenge with 45 halves and realistic analytics based on player performance would be a true simulation of the sport.

    You could have a proper Career Manager with some nice story mode video cut scene as you win cups and increase in rank and experience.

    The only way they could make money really is if they choose to make great games again and remove all the restricted revenue making gimmicks that just serves to frustrate the end-user.

    Just good solid game development no-nonsense approach.

    But its a dream maybe in future but definitely not now not with this economy anyway.

    At least we can dream..................daydream-animated-animation-day-dream-smiley-emoticon-000404-large.gif

    Post edited by Turf_Knights2016 on
  • Racso
    17 posts Ball Boy
    I think the thread's premise that CM is competing with FUT is false. They both have different appeals:
    FUT:
    • Online gameplay
    • "Gamling" system
    CM:
    • Strategic decisionmaking
    • Realism
    • Developing your own prospects
    • Role playing aspects
    Many FIFA players play both modes. Enthusiastic FUT players wouldn't necessarily switch to CM if that one would be made better, and vice versa. The major reason why EA neglects CM so much is that the financial impact of unsatisfied CM fans is smaller than the one of unsatisfied FUT players.

    Personally, if CM gets neglected even more I won't switch to FUT (I tried out FUT for some time, I find it pretty dull). I will just not buy FIFA any more. This year I only bought the new FIFA because I got it for a fantastic price.

    Edit: If EA wanted, they could make more money out of CM. Make the game mode a lot better to appeal to more customers, then sell premium items, an app for managing "on the go", and so on.

    I don't like to take to the internet to tell people they are "wrong" in some bull headed way. But here's why I feel my argument in the opening post defeats yours...

    For you to be right, you need to be 100% right. For me to be correct in my opening argument I only need to be a fraction of a percent right. That if career mode was the immersive experience it could and should be, then it could eat into the colossal profits of FUT. Which on some level, big or small, I and lots of other gamers on this forum are convinced it would.

    If you are 99% right in your assumption in that 99% of FUT gamers would not switch over to play a career mode, that still leaves 1%. 1% of $650 is still $6.5 million. That's still $6.5 million more profit than career mode makes for EA. Still a huge profit margin! If you are 90% right and I'm only 10% correct, then that becomes $65 million difference!! Huge numbers.

    I don't agree with the idea that EA are somehow "evil" or "immoral". That's just capitalism. They have company shareholders to answer to and their remit is to make as much money as they can. That;s the world we live in. They made a product in FUT that is just so successful that they cannot allow anything to harm it's profits. If they were an immoral company, then they would oppress threads like this which openly criticise them. Respect to them for not doing that.
  • mcclarse
    40 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Racso wrote: »
    I think the thread's premise that CM is competing with FUT is false. They both have different appeals:
    FUT:
    • Online gameplay
    • "Gamling" system
    CM:
    • Strategic decisionmaking
    • Realism
    • Developing your own prospects
    • Role playing aspects
    Many FIFA players play both modes. Enthusiastic FUT players wouldn't necessarily switch to CM if that one would be made better, and vice versa. The major reason why EA neglects CM so much is that the financial impact of unsatisfied CM fans is smaller than the one of unsatisfied FUT players.

    Personally, if CM gets neglected even more I won't switch to FUT (I tried out FUT for some time, I find it pretty dull). I will just not buy FIFA any more. This year I only bought the new FIFA because I got it for a fantastic price.

    Edit: If EA wanted, they could make more money out of CM. Make the game mode a lot better to appeal to more customers, then sell premium items, an app for managing "on the go", and so on.

    I don't like to take to the internet to tell people they are "wrong" in some bull headed way. But here's why I feel my argument in the opening post defeats yours...

    For you to be right, you need to be 100% right. For me to be correct in my opening argument I only need to be a fraction of a percent right. That if career mode was the immersive experience it could and should be, then it could eat into the colossal profits of FUT. Which on some level, big or small, I and lots of other gamers on this forum are convinced it would.

    If you are 99% right in your assumption in that 99% of FUT gamers would not switch over to play a career mode, that still leaves 1%. 1% of $650 is still $6.5 million. That's still $6.5 million more profit than career mode makes for EA. Still a huge profit margin! If you are 90% right and I'm only 10% correct, then that becomes $65 million difference!! Huge numbers.

    I don't agree with the idea that EA are somehow "evil" or "immoral". That's just capitalism. They have company shareholders to answer to and their remit is to make as much money as they can. That;s the world we live in. They made a product in FUT that is just so successful that they cannot allow anything to harm it's profits. If they were an immoral company, then they would oppress threads like this which openly criticise them. Respect to them for not doing that.
    You are wrong to say they don't profit from CM. I and many others play only career mode. Wouldn't touch the game or shell out even $1 for a copy of it if it didn't exist. Already undecided on 17 after the trial. PES is starting to sound appealing, especially as a Liverpool supporter.
  • At this point I'd say the best thing to do wouldn't to be to talk to the wall that is EA devs but to go to Fifa themselves and convince them to discontinue their rights with EA and then to sell them to another company who will actually put effort into their game.
  • Ggggoooopppp
    1188 posts Professional
    It's sadly to know and realize it :(
  • mcclarse wrote: »
    Racso wrote: »
    I think the thread's premise that CM is competing with FUT is false. They both have different appeals:
    FUT:
    • Online gameplay
    • "Gamling" system
    CM:
    • Strategic decisionmaking
    • Realism
    • Developing your own prospects
    • Role playing aspects
    Many FIFA players play both modes. Enthusiastic FUT players wouldn't necessarily switch to CM if that one would be made better, and vice versa. The major reason why EA neglects CM so much is that the financial impact of unsatisfied CM fans is smaller than the one of unsatisfied FUT players.

    Personally, if CM gets neglected even more I won't switch to FUT (I tried out FUT for some time, I find it pretty dull). I will just not buy FIFA any more. This year I only bought the new FIFA because I got it for a fantastic price.

    Edit: If EA wanted, they could make more money out of CM. Make the game mode a lot better to appeal to more customers, then sell premium items, an app for managing "on the go", and so on.

    I don't like to take to the internet to tell people they are "wrong" in some bull headed way. But here's why I feel my argument in the opening post defeats yours...

    For you to be right, you need to be 100% right. For me to be correct in my opening argument I only need to be a fraction of a percent right. That if career mode was the immersive experience it could and should be, then it could eat into the colossal profits of FUT. Which on some level, big or small, I and lots of other gamers on this forum are convinced it would.

    If you are 99% right in your assumption in that 99% of FUT gamers would not switch over to play a career mode, that still leaves 1%. 1% of $650 is still $6.5 million. That's still $6.5 million more profit than career mode makes for EA. Still a huge profit margin! If you are 90% right and I'm only 10% correct, then that becomes $65 million difference!! Huge numbers.

    I don't agree with the idea that EA are somehow "evil" or "immoral". That's just capitalism. They have company shareholders to answer to and their remit is to make as much money as they can. That;s the world we live in. They made a product in FUT that is just so successful that they cannot allow anything to harm it's profits. If they were an immoral company, then they would oppress threads like this which openly criticise them. Respect to them for not doing that.
    You are wrong to say they don't profit from CM. I and many others play only career mode. Wouldn't touch the game or shell out even $1 for a copy of it if it didn't exist. Already undecided on 17 after the trial. PES is starting to sound appealing, especially as a Liverpool supporter.

    Sadly, as a Liverpool supporter as well, PES really haven't done anything with their partnership other than include the actually kits and the team name. Anfield isn't even in the game, unless I missed it.

    The gameplay is fun. Different, but fun. I can definitely see the appeal but as an owner of both games I always find myself going back to FIFA even with the lack of anything really new to career mode.
  • Anfield is in the game they said it is coming shortly.
    Main stand possibly???
  • Racso
    17 posts Ball Boy

    mcclarse wrote: »
    You are wrong to say they don't profit from CM. I and many others play only career mode. Wouldn't touch the game or shell out even $1 for a copy of it if it didn't exist. Already undecided on 17 after the trial. PES is starting to sound appealing, especially as a Liverpool supporter.

    I take your point mate. You're right to say that a lot of people will only buy the game for career mode only. I have been one of those purchasers in the past.

    Perhaps I didn't explain my point clearly enough. What I meant to say is that career mode does not make EA anything extra beyond the initial purchase. FUT makes EA $650 on top of the original purchase. Per year.
  • Career mode is fine

    Just our expections are way too high
  • BistroXII
    1970 posts Play-Off Hero
    malagacity wrote: »
    Career mode is fine

    Just our expections are way too high

    Totally agree.
  • Ggggoooopppp
    1188 posts Professional
    malagacity wrote: »
    Career mode is fine

    Just our expections are way too high

    Every year there is someone who is satisfied from Career Mode :)
  • ThePhoenixSun
    196 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    People have been saying this for, oh, I don't know, maybe the last five years?

    Even a halfwit knows that EA doesn't give a damn about CM. They just put some small "new" thing into it every year as an illusion. Career mode is a joke when you compare it to other sports games, both made by EA and other developers.

    I played an online dynasty in NCAA Football 09. THAT GAME CAME OUT IN 2008! Think about that. It was almost ten years ago, and we still don't have a similar mode for FIFA.
  • Ggggoooopppp
    1188 posts Professional
    We all must underwrite the petition. If we will collect enough signatures maybe EA put his attention to our wishes.

    The topic with the petition is in this forum.
  • WizardMD wrote: »
    That's why I got PES instead, and I'm enjoying it a lot

    How's the Career Mode in PES17? Any good? The one thing I've seen that I don't like is that the regens still have those player's faces. It's not more egregious than FIFA's CM errors, but it still seems a little weird to me.
  • russianorphan7
    6 posts Ball Boy
    edited September 2016
    malagacity wrote: »
    Career mode is fine

    Just our expections are way too high

    Dude, have you seen the career modes in other sports games? NBA 2K, Madden (also made by EA), etc. are light years ahead of FIFA's CM.

    They have more than enough resources to make CM a great, in-depth, and realistic manager sim, they just don't care. Don't accept this mediocre pile of crap that they provide us, year in year out. The fact is that unless you try your hardest to restrict yourself to make the game semi-realistic and challenging, the mode is pretty broken. AI transfers are absurd and nonsensical, youth academy generates a stable full of 90+ potential players if you want, yet those same youth players' have unplayable work rates almost as a rule, rather than the exception. Also, the amount of goals scored through simming is usually lower than real life, the interactions with players is incredibly rudimentary, the stats are only accumulated for one season (and the interface sucks) for your competitions only, there are next to no player awards, and player growth is entirely predictable. In general, the game is incredibly simplistic/minimalistic compared to what else is out there for other sports.

    There are so many obvious features that could totally be implemented to make the mode amazing, such as comprehensive stats and rewards (and a history of these stats), youth leagues, facility upgrades, better scouting and search tools, more sophisticated player training, match fitness, and reasonable AI. Hell, some of these features even existed in previous games, yet they removed them for seemingly no good reason.

    Dude, open your eyes. This is 2017, yet the game mode is still stuck in the dark ages.
    Post edited by russianorphan7 on
  • russianorphan7
    6 posts Ball Boy
    edited September 2016
    Racso wrote: »
    mcclarse wrote: »
    You are wrong to say they don't profit from CM. I and many others play only career mode. Wouldn't touch the game or shell out even $1 for a copy of it if it didn't exist. Already undecided on 17 after the trial. PES is starting to sound appealing, especially as a Liverpool supporter.

    I take your point mate. You're right to say that a lot of people will only buy the game for career mode only. I have been one of those purchasers in the past.

    Perhaps I didn't explain my point clearly enough. What I meant to say is that career mode does not make EA anything extra beyond the initial purchase. FUT makes EA $650 on top of the original purchase. Per year.

    Right, that revenue from game purchases pales in comparison to what EA makes on FUT, thereby making the CM community's purchasing power negligible. Also, while there is probably a non-trivial fraction of people who only play for CM (or other non-FUT features), I'd guess that the majority end up playing FUT the most in the long run.

    The fact is they have no incentive to make an amazing CM because that would only make it more of a attention grabber. Even in it's currently terrible state, CM fans still probably spend tons of time on the mode. If it were all of a sudden a comprehensive and realistic manager sim, then it would become even more of a time-sink for current fans, and would also take some FUT players away from spending those precious dollars. At the end of the day, people have a finite amount of time for entertainment, and FIFA want's those hours to be spent on it's cash cow, not on a mode that comes with the one-time fixed fee. I give them props for adding The Journey, but it doesn't have a ton of replayability, at least at this point.

    Honestly, I wouldn't mind if that had an add-on that made CM better. Even though it's another greedy money grab from EA, I would at least be willing to pay another one-time fee if it resulted in great CM experience.
    Post edited by russianorphan7 on
  • russianorphan7
    6 posts Ball Boy
    edited September 2016
    People have suggested to make CM have in-game purchases so it makes more money (and therefore gets more development time), but I'm not sure CM can be monetized as effectively as FUT. FUT has a certain addictive quality that can be tapped into repeatedly (it's an addictive card game with solid gameplay and an online community/economy, that's a very marketable product for most anything), whereas CM is more of a long-term, single-player mode, and so I have a hard time imagining any in-game purchases having that same quality. Look at the current CM unlockables. Would you pay for those? I don't think many people would. If the career mode sandbox is realistic, challenging, and satisfactory enough for people to play in the first place, I think most people would just stick with that rather than shell out more money. Hell, people still play CM a fair bit even though it lacks all of those qualities to some degree. Also, the CM community seems far more antagonistic to any blatant money grabs and ploys like those in FUT (CM players are very openly critical of FUT), and so these types of add-ons might risk backlash, as well.

    While I'm (clearly) skeptical, I think it *might* be able to work to some degree if they added an online community to CM, fixed some of the game-breaking issues with the game (and ideally add some of the much requested features), and then had useful, though not OP, add-ons that enriched the experience for the user.

    But that's a pretty big ask so I'm not getting my hopes up.
  • Ggggoooopppp
    1188 posts Professional
    russianorphan7, fully agree with you. But EA does not listen to us. Or does not want to improve CM right way as very well and good thoughts appeared here every year. Every year many users ask for similar improvements in CM, offer good and smart things and solutions, list their wishes, mention about bugs, issues and useful features. People really spend their time (much time) to think about improvements, to compose them, to describe them and suggest them here. It is a big and hard work, by the way. But EA does nothing. They simply add some new strange features which nobody mentioned and asked about. These features are if with out bugs (in good scenario) but have flaws, and further they never improve it or just remove it.
    No one important, smart or really needed suggestion was implemented into the game. Trust me, I read (and I write it too) suggestions here during several years.
  • I'm sure EA does listen to CM gamers. But they have CM pitched at exactly a level where the want it.

    EA has been able to view gamers playing habits since the game has gone online. They have all the trend and behavioral data they need.

    CM is developed to a level where it still competes with PES (also rubbish and probably for the same reasons). But CM is held back so it eats into FUT gaming as little as possible.

    Any CM shortfalls are 100% intentional. I think folks struggle to comprehend that.
  • ~Adma~
    103 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    edited September 2016
    Racso wrote: »
    I'm sure EA does listen to CM gamers. But they have CM pitched at exactly a level where the want it.

    EA has been able to view gamers playing habits since the game has gone online. They have all the trend and behavioral data they need.

    CM is developed to a level where it still competes with PES (also rubbish and probably for the same reasons). But CM is held back so it eats into FUT gaming as little as possible.

    Any CM shortfalls are 100% intentional. I think folks struggle to comprehend that.

    It's sad but spot on.

    Some areas of issue do have a "well it's mostly fine, that'll do" feel about it. I'd love to sit down with the CM developers and get their opinion on it. All you get from EA is the lead developer who sits in on a few interviews or play-throughs weeks after the game is announced, doesn't/won't lend himself to discuss anything career mode then disappears for the next 12 months.

    Don't forget folks, the sale of the game alone probably make EA a nice profit on production costs then you factor in all the FUT money for the next 10 or so months... why would they bother to 'push' themselves too much on career mode? A new feature here or there, a few colour changes and font alterations... the old spit & polish approach and it's release time... money in the bank, a majority of the fans appeased... job done for 12 months, rinse and repeat....
  • Eh, I don't buy this conspiracy theory. Career mode was always a little simplistic, even in the days before FUT.

    I think the truth is that the market for people (like myself) who want a mashup of FIFA and Football Manager is just too small for EA to invest the resources required to get there.
    WizardMD wrote: »
    That's why I got PES instead, and I'm enjoying it a lot

    PES will never be able to compete with FIFA as a career mode. With ~10 leagues, the pool of players is just too small to be interesting.
  • Career has some lacks.
    They still can't fix the fact that often you play 2 or 3 matches within few days, not respecting resting days.
    Maybe you play on Sunday, then Tuesday and then Saturday.
    In real life, if a team plays in Europa League, it will approximately play on Saturday, then EL on Thursday and finally Sunday, or even Monday night, the following domestic league game.
  • JACKSONMEISTER
    5 posts Ball Boy
    edited October 2016
    You guys should just hope that someday 2K Games comes up with a football simulation. Just have a look at NBA2K career mode. Thats how it's intended to be done!!!
    If 2K Games would manage to get a FIFA license this would be EAs casket drop!
    Just look at NBA Live compared to NBA2K - only dumb people buy NBA Live these days....
    And you can really break it down into this: Back then they used to make games - now they make money
  • Racso
    17 posts Ball Boy
    You guys should just hope that someday 2K Games comes up with a football simulation. Just have a look at NBA2K career mode. Thats how it's intended to be done!!!
    If 2K Games would manage to get a FIFA license this would be EAs casket drop!
    Just look at NBA Live compared to NBA2K - only dumb people buy NBA Live these days....
    And you can really break it down into this: Back then they used to make games - now they make money

    Totally agree. That would be great. If people want to start petitions or lobby, then maybe they should hassle 2k. There seems to be rumours online that this is so, but perhaps this is just wishful thinking from like minded gamers?

    I don't think they would need the licences though. Just have an editable database via an online community to bypass team names and kits etc.
  • AFCB CARL
    213 posts Sunday League Hero
    Eh, I don't buy this conspiracy theory. Career mode was always a little simplistic, even in the days before FUT.

    I think the truth is that the market for people (like myself) who want a mashup of FIFA and Football Manager is just too small for EA to invest the resources required to get there.
    WizardMD wrote: »
    That's why I got PES instead, and I'm enjoying it a lot

    PES will never be able to compete with FIFA as a career mode. With ~10 leagues, the pool of players is just too small to be interesting.

    To be fair, if you go and have a look at NBA live (not as good as 2k) madden 16, NHL 15,16 & 17 you will see why this isn't as much as a conspiracy as you think.

    MUT makes them hardly anywhere near as much as FUT does and if you look at madden's CM mode (franchise mode) it's 100x better than FIFA for starters you can do an online season with your mates!

    I also agree with what a lot of other people have touched on with in game 'DLC' for CM.

    I have said for years if EA added a premier league ref pack (with all face renders on I would buy it for my CM)
    If they released stadiums for CM mode I would buy them.
    Packs for lower league authenticity
    Old school premier league team packs all 22 teams from say 1997 and run a CM mode with old teams.

    There is so much they could do DLC wise every other game moves on every year and gets bigger and better FIFA doesn't.
    We shouldn't be making excuses due to time frame of release look at madden, nba 2k, wwe 2k and other franchises that release every year they get better and improve but not this garbage!!

  • Swam_e
    5 posts Ball Boy
    edited October 2016
    Better days will come.
    Post edited by Swam_e on
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