Chemistry Bug/EALaziness Thread

Comments

  • Kurt
    1995 posts Fans' Favourite
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Amir wrote: »
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Masakari wrote: »
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Masakari wrote: »
    Lol nice try by EA.

    Multi-year "bugs" like this aren't multi year by ignorance. They either already knew about it but did nothing to fix it, or it's not really a bug and it's intentional.

    Hey, there's a third option, they are ridiculously incompetent. But that is so shockingly awful I don't even want to consider it.

    The third option is actually the most likely one. Unfortunately EA combined this with putting their fingers in their ears and chanting LALALALA every time somebody pointed out to them that there was a bug.

    @jpflathead Here's why I don't believe that:

    First, because they know how all the hidden stuff works. Surely they would have noticed this crap in testing as they have the logs being dumped from the engine with exact numerical values whenever they are generated.

    Secondly, because it's a multi year bug. With people complaining for years about something "wrong" with the game, it's incomprehensible that they wouldn't catch something like this before.

    Third, because it feeds into the FUT addiction loop. Think about it. EA wants people to spend money opening packs to get those special cards, but if you get that crazy "near unbeatable" team you're not gonna spend any more money.

    We've all complained that stat increases on IF cards should be higher than the usual +2 they give a few stats, as it's not really noticeable. But that's with the 4 chem we now know. If special cards (be they IFs, MOTMs, TOTS, etc) are soooooo much better than normal cards that the "average" player has, the average player is screwed.

    We also all know that contrary to what usually happens in most video games (ie most of the time the best player wins), in FUT the game is manipulated so that many times the best player doesn't win, either because of those "unnamed" shifts in-game, or a forcefield GK, 1 shot 1 goal syndrome, or our super high rated team being crap (4 chem everyone...). This even goes back to the theories in 13 and 14 that more than 3 IFs on a team would make a team play much worse.

    So EA looks at this, even if unintentional, and sees it feeds perfectly into their psychological addiction loop - "I have TOTY Neymar, but he's still crap, I need to keep buying more players / packs, there has to be a perfect solution" etc rinse and repeat.

    Fourth, this latest update from @Rob acts as if the fitness glitch is also recent, when it's been going on for months. EA are only now acting on it because a much worse "glitch" was discovered. Making me think they knew about the fitness glitch all along and decided to ignore it.

    Bottom line, we can't be sure it's intentional or not, but I definitely do not believe EA didn't know about this.

    I agree with you that they probably did know that something wasn't quite right but they never managed to put their finger on the issue (and clearly didn't try hard enough.)
    Lots of testing is done on the product but always before the IFs are released. They only test on the day-one database. And of course that works just fine.

    There is no way that a programmer does not test everything that's in the game or will be in the game at some point. They surely tested special cards. And it's Fifa we're talking about, a huge team of programmers work on Fifa. Even the sloppiest programmer knows to test and debug everything in their product.

    Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

    I am firmly in the incompetence camp

    I hope you're right.....because if its malice then I hope thery burn in hell
  • Amir
    783 posts An Exciting Prospect
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Amir wrote: »
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Masakari wrote: »
    jpflathead wrote: »
    Masakari wrote: »
    Lol nice try by EA.

    Multi-year "bugs" like this aren't multi year by ignorance. They either already knew about it but did nothing to fix it, or it's not really a bug and it's intentional.

    Hey, there's a third option, they are ridiculously incompetent. But that is so shockingly awful I don't even want to consider it.

    The third option is actually the most likely one. Unfortunately EA combined this with putting their fingers in their ears and chanting LALALALA every time somebody pointed out to them that there was a bug.

    @jpflathead Here's why I don't believe that:

    First, because they know how all the hidden stuff works. Surely they would have noticed this crap in testing as they have the logs being dumped from the engine with exact numerical values whenever they are generated.

    Secondly, because it's a multi year bug. With people complaining for years about something "wrong" with the game, it's incomprehensible that they wouldn't catch something like this before.

    Third, because it feeds into the FUT addiction loop. Think about it. EA wants people to spend money opening packs to get those special cards, but if you get that crazy "near unbeatable" team you're not gonna spend any more money.

    We've all complained that stat increases on IF cards should be higher than the usual +2 they give a few stats, as it's not really noticeable. But that's with the 4 chem we now know. If special cards (be they IFs, MOTMs, TOTS, etc) are soooooo much better than normal cards that the "average" player has, the average player is screwed.

    We also all know that contrary to what usually happens in most video games (ie most of the time the best player wins), in FUT the game is manipulated so that many times the best player doesn't win, either because of those "unnamed" shifts in-game, or a forcefield GK, 1 shot 1 goal syndrome, or our super high rated team being crap (4 chem everyone...). This even goes back to the theories in 13 and 14 that more than 3 IFs on a team would make a team play much worse.

    So EA looks at this, even if unintentional, and sees it feeds perfectly into their psychological addiction loop - "I have TOTY Neymar, but he's still crap, I need to keep buying more players / packs, there has to be a perfect solution" etc rinse and repeat.

    Fourth, this latest update from @Rob acts as if the fitness glitch is also recent, when it's been going on for months. EA are only now acting on it because a much worse "glitch" was discovered. Making me think they knew about the fitness glitch all along and decided to ignore it.

    Bottom line, we can't be sure it's intentional or not, but I definitely do not believe EA didn't know about this.

    I agree with you that they probably did know that something wasn't quite right but they never managed to put their finger on the issue (and clearly didn't try hard enough.)
    Lots of testing is done on the product but always before the IFs are released. They only test on the day-one database. And of course that works just fine.

    There is no way that a programmer does not test everything that's in the game or will be in the game at some point. They surely tested special cards. And it's Fifa we're talking about, a huge team of programmers work on Fifa. Even the sloppiest programmer knows to test and debug everything in their product.

    Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

    I am firmly in the incompetence camp

    They cannot be that sloppy to have missed this for four years man! FOUR YEARS. If they are that sloppy, then I don't know what to say other than they all should be fired.
  • wijnaldum16
    3890 posts National Call-Up
    mHazard wrote: »
    Btw, anyone who actually thinks they will get refunded, well I can say it is not going to happen.

    When you purchased FIFA points, and used them in packs, you agreed that the pack return is random. You most probably got items which are working, contracts, maybe a D1 players aswell. However, the thing is slightly different if you actually pulled an inform, but the refund outcome still is the same:

    EA won't return a single penny.

    Sad but true. I really would like refund, have spent quite a lot during years...

    Just tell them you were opening packs for fitness cards, chemistry cards or attribute cards that don't make a difference then...

    But they will refund I reckon.
  • Masakari
    876 posts Semi-Pro
    edited June 2016
    mHazard wrote: »
    Btw, anyone who actually thinks they will get refunded, well I can say it is not going to happen.

    When you purchased FIFA points, and used them in packs, you agreed that the pack return is random. You most probably got items which are working, contracts, maybe a D1 players aswell. However, the thing is slightly different if you actually pulled an inform, but the refund outcome still is the same:

    EA won't return a single penny.

    Sad but true. I really would like refund, have spent quite a lot during years...

    Just tell them you were opening packs for fitness cards, chemistry cards or attribute cards that don't make a difference then...

    But they will refund I reckon.

    They won't. There's even the EULA to consider, I bet they are covered legally in some way. And then they are EA, they have billions in legal defense, they can just say "take us to court, lawlz" and be done with you.

    Futhead also raised an interesting issue, we're talking packs / fifa points, what about everyone that used coins on packs and/or those 4 chem players. They would also need refunds, and we're talking hundreds of millions of transactions over the years.

    I wish they did, but refunds are not gonna happen.
  • jpflathead
    86 posts Park Captain
    mHazard wrote: »
    Btw, anyone who actually thinks they will get refunded, well I can say it is not going to happen.

    When you purchased FIFA points, and used them in packs, you agreed that the pack return is random. You most probably got items which are working, contracts, maybe a D1 players aswell. However, the thing is slightly different if you actually pulled an inform, but the refund outcome still is the same:

    EA won't return a single penny.

    Sad but true. I really would like refund, have spent quite a lot during years...

    You're wrong. When you buy a pack you are guaranteed at least a certain coin value when you discard everything (or try to sell the cards on the market.) The purpose of those packs is to earn coins so you can buy those 'better' players. There is a direct link between those packs and the coins. Whether a pack contains a high rated player is mostly irrelevant.
  • wijnaldum16
    3890 posts National Call-Up
    Masakari wrote: »
    mHazard wrote: »
    Btw, anyone who actually thinks they will get refunded, well I can say it is not going to happen.

    When you purchased FIFA points, and used them in packs, you agreed that the pack return is random. You most probably got items which are working, contracts, maybe a D1 players aswell. However, the thing is slightly different if you actually pulled an inform, but the refund outcome still is the same:

    EA won't return a single penny.

    Sad but true. I really would like refund, have spent quite a lot during years...

    Just tell them you were opening packs for fitness cards, chemistry cards or attribute cards that don't make a difference then...

    But they will refund I reckon.

    They won't. There's even the EULA to consider, I bet they are covered legally in some way. And then they are EA, they have billions in legal defense, they can just say "take us to court, lawlz" and be done with you.

    Futhead also raised an interesting issue, we're talking packs / fifa points, what about everyone that used coins on packs and/or those 4 chem players. They would also need refunds, and we're talking hundreds of millions of transactions over the years.

    I wish they did, but refunds are not gonna happen.

    Not through EA they won't. Sony or Microsoft will though. There's no way they're getting away with this without losing some money.
  • mHazard
    13787 posts Has That Special Something
    jpflathead wrote: »
    mHazard wrote: »
    Btw, anyone who actually thinks they will get refunded, well I can say it is not going to happen.

    When you purchased FIFA points, and used them in packs, you agreed that the pack return is random. You most probably got items which are working, contracts, maybe a D1 players aswell. However, the thing is slightly different if you actually pulled an inform, but the refund outcome still is the same:

    EA won't return a single penny.

    Sad but true. I really would like refund, have spent quite a lot during years...

    You're wrong. When you buy a pack you are guaranteed at least a certain coin value when you discard everything (or try to sell the cards on the market.) The purpose of those packs is to earn coins so you can buy those 'better' players. There is a direct link between those packs and the coins. Whether a pack contains a high rated player is mostly irrelevant.
    Okay, I won't start arguing about this.

    I am having very much fun atm just thinking I was kinda right all the time.

    It's in ur head, they said. Git gud, they said. In my ****. :D
  • NoScopeKing
    1016 posts Professional
    I dont think they will be giving out refunds unfortunately but has anyone contacted MS/Sony about this yet?
  • Mike_Lowrey
    872 posts Semi-Pro
    edited June 2016
    Lol
  • PelzyWelzy
    9669 posts League Winner
    Lol

    You really had to edit 'Lol'?

    Dear lord...
  • JonBRFC
    568 posts An Exciting Prospect
    PelzyWelzy wrote: »
    Lol

    You really had to edit 'Lol'?

    Dear lord...

    :D
  • Kurt
    1995 posts Fans' Favourite
    Also we're not even going into squad rating and bronze benching etc which are all part of the game but we cant prove.
  • mHazard
    13787 posts Has That Special Something
    PelzyWelzy wrote: »
    Lol

    You really had to edit 'Lol'?

    Dear lord...

    Lol, LOL, lol... There is difference. :trollface:
  • Antiversum
    5784 posts Big Money Move
    Kurt wrote: »
    Also we're not even going into squad rating and bronze benching etc which are all part of the game but we cant prove.

    In your head bruhhhhh
  • Masakari
    876 posts Semi-Pro
    Kurt wrote: »
    Also we're not even going into squad rating and bronze benching etc which are all part of the game but we cant prove.
    I dunno what's going on with an all-day-1 NIFs 79 ovr team vs an all-day-1 NIFs 86 ovr team and the 86 ovr squad plays like crap - maybe it's matchmaking against a higher skilled opponent? ELO theories lol might be where bronze benching also comes into play.

    But in terms of chemgate there's a clear correlation - you're using a team with IFs and SIFs (for ex) that is 84 rated and come up against a day-1 NIFs team rated 80 and your team plays like crap, it's actually because most of your team is on 4 chem and each player is actually worse than the 80 ovr squad where it's players are all on 10 chem.

    At least, that's what I'm thinking.
  • PelzyWelzy wrote: »
    Lol

    You really had to edit 'Lol'?

    Dear lord...

    Posted in the wrong thread...Lol sums up my feelings about all this perfectly.
  • Kurt
    1995 posts Fans' Favourite
    Masakari wrote: »
    Kurt wrote: »
    Also we're not even going into squad rating and bronze benching etc which are all part of the game but we cant prove.
    I dunno what's going on with an all-day-1 NIFs 79 ovr team vs an all-day-1 NIFs 86 ovr team and the 86 ovr squad plays like crap - maybe it's matchmaking against a higher skilled opponent? ELO theories lol might be where bronze benching also comes into play.

    But in terms of chemgate there's a clear correlation - you're using a team with IFs and SIFs (for ex) that is 84 rated and come up against a day-1 NIFs team rated 80 and your team plays like crap, it's actually because most of your team is on 4 chem and each player is actually worse than the 80 ovr squad where it's players are all on 10 chem.

    At least, that's what I'm thinking.

    Yeah I get that but ultimately it comes down to we cant prove everything because there is so so much more.
  • Andy99TradeZ
    14193 posts Has That Special Something
    on a serious note, if this gets enough attention surely Ea would have to release their coding of Ut and the games, because if that happens then we'll find out so much more about the **** that happens game in game out
  • Alex
    976 posts Moderator
    on a serious note, if this gets enough attention surely Ea would have to release their coding of Ut and the games, because if that happens then we'll find out so much more about the **** that happens game in game out

    Pretty sure there isn't and wouldn't be a reason for them to release their code publicly.
  • Masakari
    876 posts Semi-Pro
    Alex wrote: »
    on a serious note, if this gets enough attention surely Ea would have to release their coding of Ut and the games, because if that happens then we'll find out so much more about the **** that happens game in game out

    Pretty sure there isn't and wouldn't be a reason for them to release their code publicly.
    Of course not.
  • BPM
    191 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    At least we definitely know that EA have acknowledged this after the Rob post.

  • PelzyWelzy
    9669 posts League Winner
    BPM wrote: »
    At least we definitely know that EA have acknowledged this after the Rob post.

    And what a load of **** that post was. Seriously, could hear the egg shells cracking as @Rob tried his very best to tread over them!

    Completely pathetic in my opinion!
  • NittyRM3
    2083 posts Fans' Favourite
    can someone quote me with what rob said?Please?
  • AbuNegus
    1229 posts Professional
    NittyRM3 wrote: »
    can someone quote me with what rob said?Please?

    https://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/169890/fitness-and-chemistry#latest

    First post in the forums
  • PelzyWelzy
    9669 posts League Winner
    NittyRM3 wrote: »
    can someone quote me with what rob said?Please?

    The response...

    ''Thanks to the FUT community for raising awareness of a potential fitness and chemistry inconsistency in some FUT items. After hearing this, our teams were in over the weekend and continue to thoroughly investigate the information. We will keep you informed with updates from the investigation.

    Our commitment to a fun, fair and secure experience in FIFA is ongoing, and as a community your feedback helps us achieve that goal. A special thanks for your continuous efforts across all''
  • AbuNegus
    1229 posts Professional
    I got really irritated at "potential". What potential? The evidence is right before your eyes
  • NittyRM3
    2083 posts Fans' Favourite
    AbuNegus wrote: »
    NittyRM3 wrote: »
    can someone quote me with what rob said?Please?

    https://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/169890/fitness-and-chemistry#latest

    First post in the forums

    Oh I thought it was on this thread.Thanks mate :)
  • semia172
    2187 posts Fans' Favourite
    Just waiting for the fix so that my mixed tots low chem team plays like crap and ea takes the last bit of fun out of ut for me :(
  • AbuNegus
    1229 posts Professional
    Maybe @fluffymnuffy can link the response in the OP? It's not really clear among the other stickies.
  • Mutu10gol
    2540 posts Fans' Favourite
    murazor wrote: »
    @Frankenberry i ve seen you posted in another thread (not related to the glitch ofc). How are you mate?

    :D

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