The Scouting, Youths and Regens Thread

Comments

  • Danic123
    2262 posts Fans' Favourite
    Training them or not makes no difference.

    I've had a player I've given no training either in the academy or prior have no physical growth on them, rest of their stats have grown as usual.

    On the flip side I've had a player I trained excessively in the Academy, and he's had the most physical growth out of them all. But don't take that as a rule either. It's all random.
  • IIIKevinIII
    10 posts Ball Boy
    edited October 2015
    I think that physical growth is somewhat random, and possibly tied to potential? I havent got too far yet just like 3 seasons in but i noticed my higher potential players have still grown physically despite training. I still would utilize training because you can drastically improve a players overall quickly, and allows you to pinpoint a certain set of attributes that you want to focus on. (meaning you could train the same midfielder to the same drill every week and he will have no choice but to grow in that category.) But think of it as you only have so many stat increases per OVR level per AGE and in the end a player should reach his potential regardless and theoretically have all the stats be rated according to his potential, and how all the different stats were supposed to end up or close to it. However training the player to increase his Shooting MORE EARLIER in his career than his other stats, like passing, defending, and of course physicals wont have a chance to grow as much at that time either because any increase in those stats increases OVR. Allowing training along with normal rate of growth would cause youth players to be highly over rated for their age because you could focus on shooting stats and if you are going to get 10+ speed and physicals growth each season coupled with higher skill stats then you will have players with high high physical stats and very high tailored technical stats that would simply make their OVR rating too high. All players have a somewhat "set" potential and a player with 90+ potential will likely have all of their stats in ALL or MOST categories be in the very high ranges when they reach potential. In the end it doesnt really matter if when the player was 20 that he had 60 speed or 90 speed, because when he reaches full potential and age, his ratings will have grown to what they should be. Training will allow you to pick which stats increase FIRST and EARLY in their career, they SHOULD reach their stat potential in the end regardless of what stats increased early in his career or late, cuz again each stat has a limit. Once the player maxes out shooting, he will start to grow in other categories like physical stats according to his potential rating.

    Training in the academy has NO DIFFERENCE from what i have seen, and there are alot of reasons why you want to train them in the academy, especially because all the 90+ potential players usually start out very low OVR when they are young and training can really speed up OVR growth to be able to start or compete when they are promoted rather than being like 47 rated with a potential of 90. And if you think about it there is a logical reason why training them early sometimes seems like they dont grow physically, but that is just for short term and eventually they grow to what they should be and ill explain why.

    Ratings and numbers are just for sake of example, the OVR calculations and growth is probably not completely right but explains the idea behind my theory.


    OVR ratings are just a collection of different ratings and categories, more stats means more OVR. Increasing a players speed will increase their OVR rating, increasing anything will increase their OVR rating. More potential will give a player more of a chance to grow physically. Think of training as if you are hand selecting attributes that you want to increase EARLY ON rather than the player growing naturally where they usually gain a few stats in all categories. Meaning when they are younger and lower OVR you are "forcing" them to grow in those categories quicker than they maybe would have normally.

    So lets say at 18 years old and 75 OVR with a Potential of 90 a certain player, was supposed to have at this point grown to 75 speed 75 acceleration 75 shooting 75 passing without you training him ever and just by natural growth. However if you train him and focus on his shooting in the academy, he may be able to grow to the same OVR of 75 but his stats will be something like 90 shooting, 65 speed, 65 acceleration, 65 passing because you beefed up only the shooting mainly and given the way OVR works, he cant also grow in physicals at the same time because he would grow too fast. However each stat only has a limit (99 rating) so because his shooting is 90 at age 18, he wont really be able to get that much better at shooting for the rest of his career than he is now, its not like you can train him to have 150 shooting. So you essentially "maxed out" his shooting potential early on in his career and in the mean time did not allow his other categories to grow as much yet because all his OVR increases were spent with shooting increases. So in his later years at 19-25 he will have a chance to increase his physicals (and other relevant stats) based off his potential rating until his OVR finally reaches his max potential. So he maybe will grow from 65 speed to 85 final speed in his later ages when he ends up at 90 potential, but expecting this to happen WHILE also having major stat increases would be unrealistic.

    Normally (and in previous versions) players that grow by just playing games and getting older towards their potential would grow a little in each category and those increases would contribute to an overall rating. But typically this growth would be "balanced" and they would maybe increase passing +5, shooting +5, speed+5, acceleration 5+ per season making their OVR rating increase but it is more spread out this way. However with training you are able to focus on a single stat increase and you make your shooting or finishing like 20+ maybe in that one season, which will obviously bring his OVR be alot for a striker, so in the end in both cases you end up with a player who has +20 growth in stats for the season and probably the same OVR increase but in different categories.

    In the end training is very helpful to get youth players to actual usable OVR's before being promoted especially because on average most of the youth players will come out very low rated 60 or less if you do not train them at all, again they SHOULD reach the same potential in the end if you train or dont train, but it will take longer to reach potential because out of the academy you are starting at a lower OVR and will make it difficult to play or sim games with those players and get good match ratings with such low OVR players.

    Hope that makes sense for everyone, I dont think physical growth is "glitched" with training, just that the point of training is to TRAIN a player in that certain stat category and that you can "handpick" their growth early on and kickstart their growth rather than it being somewhat slowly spread out over their career each year until they hit their potential. And again if you max out shooting stats at age 19 for a striker who hasnt reached his potential, then he cant grow any more points in striking but still has OVR potential to increase so thats when his other stats will "catch" up and physicals will grow until they reach max OVR potential, again DEPENDING on potential as some players will always be slow if they have low potential.

    And keep in mind that these players are starting out at 15-17 years old, even simming 5 seasons or so ahead (which you did to get that data for the experiment) they are still low 20 something in age and FAR from full potential and thus from full potential of growth in ALL categories and is still too early to judge any growth or non-growth that will happen at full potential.

    Post edited by IIIKevinIII on
  • Shadow Turkey
    36 posts Last Pick at the Park
    I think that physical...

    Thanks for your views, I hope your theory is right.
  • Danic123
    2262 posts Fans' Favourite
    Guys, thought I'd post this in case it hasn't been mentioned:

    We all know that signing a player from the Academy no longer effects his potential rating. The potential you see is exactly what you get.

    However, the potential of every player you sign is randomised when they join your club. And this also applies to any player who returns on loan.

    I loaned out a winger who was classed an "Exciting Prospect" but when he returned he was classed as a great prospect, the level below. So if you promote a player from the Academy who has 5 star skills / Weak foot and you are disappointed he's not one of your top prospects, you can send him on a short loan, save the game, and then keep reloading until his potential is boosted.

  • Kuklinski
    89 posts Park Captain
    There is another problem i have noticed about the youth academy players. Supposedly, potential margin should reduce each time (first of each month) we receive a "Youth Squad Report". Such as if it was 70-90 last month, i expect either 70 would raise up or 90 would drop (or both) on next month's report. Since i follow it on an excell sheet, i have seen that it doesn't work like that. It is random. I have a player with 83-94 potential, which shows up as 78-90 next month.
  • Kuklinski
    89 posts Park Captain
    Danic123 wrote: »

    However, the potential of every player you sign is randomised when they join your club. And this also applies to any player who returns on loan.

    So you are saying that there is no point to transfer a young fellow by looking at his potential.
  • JoeAVFC1986
    1160 posts Professional
    Got a 17 year old GK with 5 star weak foot who's 75 rated with 91 potential.
    Also got a RB with L/M workrates and 1 star skills but already 90 interceptions and marking.
    Didn't even know outfield players could get 1 star skills.
    Also ended up with 2 defenders with the same surname
  • does pace grow easily for youth players? because every full back i got have a sprint speed and acceleration in the 60's, it sucks.
  • AJ5481 wrote: »
    does pace grow easily for youth players? because every full back i got have a sprint speed and acceleration in the 60's, it sucks.

    I wouldnt offer a contract to a FB if his speed is less then 75 in the academy. I have found FBs with a speed that grows up to as high as 98, it took 3-4 years after he signed to get there but he started out at 78 speed in the youth academy.
  • leon1309
    3793 posts National Call-Up
    edited October 2015
    I was wondering something: if i leave player in youth academy till he wants to leave it (somehow i have no obligation to sign them or release them when they turn 18 - i think i did last year, not 100% sure), the time he spends in academy it counts as if he was playing games in regular squad or it is better to promote and bench them for most of the season (if you cant loan them out offcuorse).

    I mean i have a few real gems (90-94 potential), but their overall rating is 30ish at the age of 16 or 17 :) ...what to do with those? If i train them up fast i will negate physical rating, but 30 overal player will never get loaned out..what is the aproximate growth per year on players like this (if there is growth at all just by staying in youth accademy)?

    p.s.
    I tried promoting one player with rating such as stated above: he plays CDM, CM and is now rated 53 (i did some training on him, but i think only twice in 2 seasons time, his starting overal was 30), he is now the best looking 53 rated player i ever saw (good physical stats, good overal stats: most of the stats are between 65 and 75 (physical stats are all in 70s),...so saying this i have no idea how overal rating is calculated...i mean he should by all means be ratted a lot higher). I did play him every oportunity i had, but still...the only weak thing on him is 2 stars WF, but he has 4 star skills to make up for it... and he is still 17 years old i think :)
  • Herbski
    89 posts Park Captain
    edited October 2015
    Kuklinski wrote: »
    Danic123 wrote: »

    However, the potential of every player you sign is randomised when they join your club. And this also applies to any player who returns on loan.

    So you are saying that there is no point to transfer a young fellow by looking at his potential.

    No it's still worth it to look at the potential because the potential only changes on loans/transfers between 1-2 (or maybe 3) OVR points. Last year it could change a lot more than that.

    Something I might add is that for youth academy players, and this may not work as well with small club because you may run into budget problems.

    But at least from an OVR rating standpoint , the best way to grow (especially the ones that have a low OVR to start) I've found is to trade the player to a different club for a year (or you can even leave them there longer if you like). I was actually using a "feeder club" where I sent all my youth players.

    I had mid 50 range type of players grow to mid-high 70s the next year. Had players rated high 70's and even 80 by the time they were 17 or 18. Of course you have to buy them back when you want them, so with a small club budget this may not work as well. Also, it seemed like the players I sent in January grew more than the ones I sent at the beginning of the next season, although I only got through 2 seasons of the simulation so that could just be observation bias. I also did notice some players physicals grew and some didn't, but I was training some players too before I sent them to the feeder club.

    And yeah as others have mentioned, it seems if you grow them with training their physicals will not grow as highly, at least early on. I do agree with Kevin's take on why that is the case. (Although I disagree that every stat has an impact on OVR rating, most do, but it is dependent on position. For example, if a ST's defensive stats go up it won't impact the OVR)

    EDIT - Just read Leon's comment, I would suggest using this method I described if you can. Send your low OVR/high potential players to a feeder club for a season.

    Also, the OVR rating for a CDM is highly dependent on strength and defensive stats, I'm guessing you had a "technically gifted" CDM and everything is good except his tackling (and maybe strength) stats are low for a CDM. So he shows as a low rated 53 but if you use him as a CM or a deep lying playmaker type of CDM he probably plays more like a 65 rating or something along those lines)
  • CosmoKramer
    66 posts Park Captain
    So, if you sell your youth players to another club you still get the option to buy them back? I noticed in 15 if you released any youth players you had promoted to the 1st team squad you could never buy them back again. Some of them went on to be really good despite showing no growth in the squad or being loaned out which was a bit of a pisser.
  • Herbski
    89 posts Park Captain
    edited October 2015
    Yeah you can't release or sell the player.

    What you do is buy a player from the team you want to send your youth player to, and you offer your youth player as part of a trade to buy the player from the other team. Then you can just release the player you bought (or I guess if you really want to keep the player you can. although I usually just go after the cheapest ones)

    Not only can you buy the youth player back when you do it this way, the potential doesn't change like a normal transfer would (although in FIFA 16 the potential doesn't change nearly as much as it did with a transfer on FIFA 15 anyway).
  • Hey guys I can really use your advise right now. I have three 5*5 scouts and I have been sending them to football power house like Brazil, Argentina, Spain Germany and I have been reloading as much as I can.

    The problems I have encountered:
    1. The best player straight from scouting has 62 OVR
    2. Other players have between 45 OVR - 60 OVR

    Can some please answer the following question
    1. Once my scout find a player 53-71 OVR : 74 - 92 POT, when should i add them to the academy
    2. After adding them to the academy, When should i promote them?
    3. Will they have a big increase while in the academy at some point?

    I am really getting frustrated with only getting super low rated player and not know when to promote.

    NOTE: I realized that someone of the players that i scouted and was taking away from my scouting have big increase in their OVR yet my team is not having such increase.

    HELP! HELP!! HELP!!!
  • FiremanTOR
    70 posts Park Captain
    1. How is this a problem? This is normal. 65 has been my highest, but it's worth mentioning that 16-year and 17-year olds seem to have close to the same maximum OVR as 15-year olds and that thus, 15-year olds are much more valuable.
    2. Reload more then :P I only take people 60-65, especially since you can see the OVR right after you sign them.

    1. Right away, they don't grow in scouting reports, they do monthly in the academy and you can start training them.
    2. This doesn't matter, once they are playable and you want to use them. They grow the same in the academy (monthly) as while they're in the main squad (also monthly).
    3. No, it's monthly. Training gives major boosts.
  • Well, thanks TOR. Atleast I know im not the only one facing the same situation.
  • Danic123
    2262 posts Fans' Favourite
    Just to revisit a topic.

    Has anyone found a direct correlation between training players and physical stats being effected?

    I've had players promoted with no training have no growth, no training and seeing growth. I've also had players with training getting growth, and players with training getting no growth.


    This is what I experienced in FIFA 15, with players promoted pre May update.

    When you promoted players, whether or not they grew in physical stats was randomised. There were two category's of players.

    1. Possibility of early growth of physical stats. These players would mostly show physical growth, but occasionally would not. You had to be careful when promoting them and sure to advance a month (save/reload) or two to see if the growth was in play.

    2. No chance of early growth of physical stats. Save/reload as much as you like, these players will not improve in physical stats until later on in their development.


    I have yet to test this out fully on this version, but I'm thinking it's similar.
  • SciManG
    227 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    For those interested I have a workaround for the 1 year contract bug.

    I found that the bug is random and the number of contract years you can offer a player is randomly set when you start a new season.

    So if you save before the end of the season you can advance to the new season, make a temp save and check if any of your academy players have the bug, for 15yr old players you need to sim forward until they are old enough to check, if any have the bug you can reload the end of season save and try again and hope that this time the bug doesn't affect your players.

    Ideally the less players in your academy at the start of the season the easier it will be to get all the players without the bug.

  • Danic123
    2262 posts Fans' Favourite
    SciManG wrote: »
    For those interested I have a workaround for the 1 year contract bug.

    I found that the bug is random and the number of contract years you can offer a player is randomly set when you start a new season.

    So if you save before the end of the season you can advance to the new season, make a temp save and check if any of your academy players have the bug, for 15yr old players you need to sim forward until they are old enough to check, if any have the bug you can reload the end of season save and try again and hope that this time the bug doesn't affect your players.

    Ideally the less players in your academy at the start of the season the easier it will be to get all the players without the bug.

    I had the bug, kept offering a player a contract & it eventually worked. I've no idea why though tbh.
  • nomario
    23 posts Last Pick at the Park
    edited October 2015
    Does anyone know if there is an issue with having two players with the same name/nationality in the squad? I tried to promote two, one is available to play but the other is wasting a squad space AND an academy space. I keep offering him contracts, which he accepts, but nothing changes.

    Update: And now he wants to leave great
    Post edited by nomario on
  • Kuklinski
    89 posts Park Captain
    jblack007 wrote: »

    Can some please answer the following question
    1. Once my scout find a player 53-71 OVR : 74 - 92 POT, when should i add them to the academy
    2. After adding them to the academy, When should i promote them?
    3. Will they have a big increase while in the academy at some point?

    1. When i recieve a scout report, i reject the players who have below 85 higher potential like "68-83". If the potential is like 70-90 or above i sign them right away.
    2. Last year player potential margin was going down until 6 (83-89). But now i have seen some players go below. I had a GK 92-94. So i promote them when the gap hits 6. By this way i have almost perfect estimation of his exact potential.
    3. There is no May update in this year. They improve regularly and could be followed on monthly reports. You can also train them while they are in your academy (not 15 years olds)
  • FiremanTOR
    70 posts Park Captain
    SciManG wrote: »
    For those interested I have a workaround for the 1 year contract bug.

    I found that the bug is random and the number of contract years you can offer a player is randomly set when you start a new season.

    So if you save before the end of the season you can advance to the new season, make a temp save and check if any of your academy players have the bug, for 15yr old players you need to sim forward until they are old enough to check, if any have the bug you can reload the end of season save and try again and hope that this time the bug doesn't affect your players.

    Ideally the less players in your academy at the start of the season the easier it will be to get all the players without the bug.

    That it's randomized would make sense, I got to give it another try then. I did reload an entire season once but it still ended up not working.
  • Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered. I'm wondering if anyone has some good tips on spotting/finding regens? I've always struggled to search for them.

    I've just finished season one with Paris FC and promoted them to Ligue 1. I'm trying to build the team on youth players and regens to eventually go head-to-head with PSG.
  • Boeruh
    197 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    tcj24 wrote: »
    Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered. I'm wondering if anyone has some good tips on spotting/finding regens? I've always struggled to search for them.

    I've just finished season one with Paris FC and promoted them to Ligue 1. I'm trying to build the team on youth players and regens to eventually go head-to-head with PSG.

    Look for players who are retiring. The next season you can search for the same position and nationality in the league the original player played in, then you find some great gems. For example, Ibrahimovic retired after 2 seasons on my career, the next season I searched for Swedish strikers in the Ligue 1, then I found a great 71 rated 17-year old striker at OGC Nice.

    Also, look at the free agents at the beginning of every season, sometimes there are great players in there. Good luck!
  • Verstappen
    4173 posts National Call-Up
    Boeruh wrote: »
    tcj24 wrote: »
    Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered. I'm wondering if anyone has some good tips on spotting/finding regens? I've always struggled to search for them.

    I've just finished season one with Paris FC and promoted them to Ligue 1. I'm trying to build the team on youth players and regens to eventually go head-to-head with PSG.

    Look for players who are retiring. The next season you can search for the same position and nationality in the league the original player played in, then you find some great gems. For example, Ibrahimovic retired after 2 seasons on my career, the next season I searched for Swedish strikers in the Ligue 1, then I found a great 71 rated 17-year old striker at OGC Nice.

    Also, look at the free agents at the beginning of every season, sometimes there are great players in there. Good luck!

    Here the same. Dutch RM from FC Bayern, you know what regen is...
  • piccolobsc
    91 posts Park Captain
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my career, but the physical stats of my youth players never grow. for example i have a RB sitting in my youth squad for a year now and he still has 70 accel and 60 speed, same as day 1. I never trained him manually. I'm not doing anything wrong, am i?
  • SciManG
    227 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    piccolobsc wrote: »
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my career, but the physical stats of my youth players never grow. for example i have a RB sitting in my youth squad for a year now and he still has 70 accel and 60 speed, same as day 1. I never trained him manually. I'm not doing anything wrong, am i?

    Some players grow early, some later and unfortunately some never at all.

    Player growth is mainly dependent on age and growth potential (difference between potential & OVR), the older the player & the higher the growth potential, the more the system thinks the player has to grow on average to reach their potential by their mid 20's or so.

    The more they have to grow in less years the more likely they will grow physically, although as with all things FIFA it is not set in stone.

    Physically strong players tend to be the most likely to improve physically from the start.
  • Kuklinski
    89 posts Park Captain
    edited October 2015
    piccolobsc wrote: »
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my career, but the physical stats of my youth players never grow. for example i have a RB sitting in my youth squad for a year now and he still has 70 accel and 60 speed, same as day 1. I never trained him manually. I'm not doing anything wrong, am i?

    Don't train a player if you want him to improve on physical stats. For me, i only train goalkeepers. And almost all of my players grow in physical. It gives you slower growth in overall comparing to trained players, but it is more balanced.
  • piccolobsc
    91 posts Park Captain
    edited October 2015
    Kuklinski wrote: »
    piccolobsc wrote: »
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my career, but the physical stats of my youth players never grow. for example i have a RB sitting in my youth squad for a year now and he still has 70 accel and 60 speed, same as day 1. I never trained him manually. I'm not doing anything wrong, am i?

    Don't train a player if you want him to improve on physical stats. For me, i only train goalkeepers. And almost all of my players grow in physical. It gives you slower growth in overall comparing to trained players, but it is more balanced.

    Read it again, i said i didn't train him manually.
  • Kuklinski
    89 posts Park Captain
    piccolobsc wrote: »
    Kuklinski wrote: »
    piccolobsc wrote: »
    I don't know if there is something wrong with my career, but the physical stats of my youth players never grow. for example i have a RB sitting in my youth squad for a year now and he still has 70 accel and 60 speed, same as day 1. I never trained him manually. I'm not doing anything wrong, am i?

    Don't train a player if you want him to improve on physical stats. For me, i only train goalkeepers. And almost all of my players grow in physical. It gives you slower growth in overall comparing to trained players, but it is more balanced.

    Read it again, i said i didn't train him manually.

    Ohh, sorry. When you say "manually", i thought you simulated the trainings. My bad..
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