Protect buyers by encouraging fairness with market pricing?

1
happyblue
349 posts Sunday League Hero
edited September 2015
Do you know why unwitting players buy unscrupulously inflated or priced fixed items?

An unwitting player builds a squad and while in the squad builder he chooses to search the market for each player. The game shows 6 of the item (ending soonest) and he chooses from those 6 items regardless that the price of these items could be unscrupulously inflated or price fixed.

Traders spend hours searching and buying cheaply then relisting at higher prices for unwitting players to buy. I've read many posts on here about it and people pride themselves on how well they price fix or flip items to an unwitting customer.

FIFA Community Manager Chu Morah talking about FUT 16:



In the video Chuboi says he is a trader and the FUT 16 market will be much more trader friendly with much wider price ranges.

Do unwitting players know they are being conned? Of course not, otherwise they would spend their coins wisely.

Should conning unwitting players be an acceptable consequence of FUT 16 trading?

If not, how does EA ensure unwitting players aren't conned by unscrupulous traders?

Prominently display the average price of the item so unwitting buyers know how much they should be paying.

Also provide the buyer with a page of 12 or 18 items instead of only 6 when searching the market from the squad builder. An unscrupulous trader attempting to price fix by listing the same player 10 times at an inflated price will have a much harder time conning an unwitting buyer.

To further protect unwitting buyers the game could limit how many of the same item an unscrupulous trader can buy although some items should not be restricted. It wouldn't make sense to limit how many contracts you can buy so to prevent unreasonable exploitation EA would decide upon reasonable price ranges for example 150 to 500 coins rather than 150 to 5000 coins for these items.

Tl;dr: Should EA act to prevent unscrupulous traders from conning unwitting players out of their coins?
Post edited by happyblue on

Comments

  • Boabdust
    5123 posts Big Money Move
    If people are to lazy to check the market that's their fault.
  • Jfo88
    22950 posts Club Captain
    Boabdust wrote: »
    If people are to lazy to check the market that's their fault.

  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    It's a time problem? People who don't spend time on the market to learn about prices are lazy?

    EA shouldn't act to protect the lazy?
  • Jfo88
    22950 posts Club Captain
    happyblue wrote: »
    It's a time problem? People who don't spend time on the market to learn about prices are lazy?

    EA shouldn't act to protect the lazy?

    All you have to do is an l2 search back out then go search lowest bin takes 30 seconds
  • Boabdust
    5123 posts Big Money Move
    Jfo88 wrote: »
    happyblue wrote: »
    It's a time problem? People who don't spend time on the market to learn about prices are lazy?

    EA shouldn't act to protect the lazy?

    All you have to do is an l2 search back out then go search lowest bin takes 30 seconds
    Search player adjust price filters simple really

  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    Jfo88 wrote: »
    happyblue wrote: »
    It's a time problem? People who don't spend time on the market to learn about prices are lazy?

    EA shouldn't act to protect the lazy?

    All you have to do is an l2 search back out then go search lowest bin takes 30 seconds
    I didn't post here because I'm too lazy or I was unwittingly being exploited.

    In FUT 15 I was the unscrupulous trader. :grimace:

    I made as much profit as I could. I didn't care that I was exploiting the unwitting buyers.

    Chuboi talks about fair and fun in his video and it made me realise that perhaps unscrupulous traders such as myself and others on this forum shouldn't be able to easily exploit extortionate profit like we do.
  • PopulousLyric2
    429 posts Sunday League Hero
    1. Unwitting players do not use concept squads. They dont know how. They act like this: they notice they have 3000 coins, they decide to buy a new player. They go to market, might filter with max buy now 3K, possibly choose a league too. Then they buy what looks good, they dont check for cheaper versions of the card they want. "Oh wow, I can afford Phil Jones, gotta buy him NOW!"

    2. It is not scamming to sell high. NO-one is forcing lazy dudes to act as they do. In FIFA15 I actually was "a client" for traders from time to time. When i built my squad, i just bought the players(10K here, 10K there didnt matter).

    3. Price-fixing is a work of art. Its usually a demanding high risk, high reward operation

    4. Trading is not always too successful, go ask Karma about some Benzemas
  • Fumbler
    2509 posts Fans' Favourite
    Boabdust wrote: »
    If people are to lazy to check the market that's their fault.

  • Pieman
    479 posts Sunday League Hero
    This is hilarious. Being "conned"? Ha ha

    It's only as much a con as morrisons charging 5p more for a tin of beans than asda. If you want cheapest, shop around. If you're too lazy to search then someone profits by providing you the convenient option. It's a market after all.
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    1. Unwitting players do not use concept squads. They dont know how. They act like this: they notice they have 3000 coins, they decide to buy a new player. They go to market, might filter with max buy now 3K, possibly choose a league too. Then they buy what looks good, they dont check for cheaper versions of the card they want. "Oh wow, I can afford Phil Jones, gotta buy him NOW!"

    2. It is not scamming to sell high. NO-one is forcing lazy dudes to act as they do. In FIFA15 I actually was "a client" for traders from time to time. When i built my squad, i just bought the players(10K here, 10K there didnt matter).

    3. Price-fixing is a work of art. Its usually a demanding high risk, high reward operation

    4. Trading is not always too successful, go ask Karma about some Benzemas
    Do you think it's acceptable to justify unscrupulous trading by saying it's an art form to be able to exploit people and it's okay to do so because they are lazy?

    You're spitting out your justification about exploiting unwitting players even though it's very clear to me that it isn't them being lazy. They don't know they are being exploited which means they are unwitting, otherwise they would buy the cheaper players.

    Do you want to come up with another excuse for unscrupulous exploitation? Perhaps they're too stupid to buy the correctly priced items?
  • WaCoug615
    9651 posts League Winner
    Jfo88 wrote: »
    Boabdust wrote: »
    If people are to lazy to check the market that's their fault.

    This, seriously. Their ignorance doesn't need to be subsidized. They are either blissfully ignorant (doesn't matter as they don't know any better) or ... Lesson learned.

    Unscrupulous, ffs ...
  • DoD_Jester
    27291 posts Player of the Year
    buying commodities at a low rate and selling at a premium isnt unscrupulous, its the way the world works, think of the market as a mini wall street in the 80's(complete with corruption, coin glitchers and sellers) and its easy to see the way it works and why it works, just because the end user doesnt research prices properly doesnt mean that theyve been had, it means theyve been unfortunate enough to buy stock(players, consumables) at an inflated rate, thus keeping the wheels turning, if everyone bought at market rate the market would stagnate
  • PopulousLyric2
    429 posts Sunday League Hero
    happyblue wrote: »
    1. Unwitting players do not use concept squads. They dont know how. They act like this: they notice they have 3000 coins, they decide to buy a new player. They go to market, might filter with max buy now 3K, possibly choose a league too. Then they buy what looks good, they dont check for cheaper versions of the card they want. "Oh wow, I can afford Phil Jones, gotta buy him NOW!"

    2. It is not scamming to sell high. NO-one is forcing lazy dudes to act as they do. In FIFA15 I actually was "a client" for traders from time to time. When i built my squad, i just bought the players(10K here, 10K there didnt matter).

    3. Price-fixing is a work of art. Its usually a demanding high risk, high reward operation

    4. Trading is not always too successful, go ask Karma about some Benzemas
    Do you think it's acceptable to justify unscrupulous trading by saying it's an art form to be able to exploit people and it's okay to do so because they are lazy?

    You're spitting out your justification about exploiting unwitting players even though it's very clear to me that it isn't them being lazy. They don't know they are being exploited which means they are unwitting, otherwise they would buy the cheaper players.

    Do you want to come up with another excuse for unscrupulous exploitation? Perhaps they're too stupid to buy the correctly priced items?

    If i dont know something, i can find it out. If i cant, im either lazy or stupid(or both).

    I have been experimenting with my 10-year old son. He is one those lazy buyers. And truly, LAZY.
    He has been told the mechanics, he even tried trading. But those lads just wont do it. Cant focus. "this is boring, i wanna buy that fabregas for 20K"
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    It's how the world works but you missed out the part about it being properly regulated?

    Buying at a low price and selling for 15% profit isn't unscrupulous it's an accepted practice in the real world when selling computer parts.

    Buying large quantities of baked beans and selling for 25% profit isn't unscrupulous it's a benefit of bulk buying.

    Buying Koscielny for 600 coins and selling for 5K is unscrupulous.

    Buying Lacazette for 80K and selling for 1 million coins is unscrupulous.

    It's unscrupulous to attempt to rip off your customers with exploitative pricing in the real world. It's deemed unacceptable and governments act by creating law to stop it from happening.

    This isn't even a real world market it's in a fun game and Chuboi highlighted it's supposed to be about fairness and fun and it got me thinking about the unscrupulous trading I was doing.
  • DoD_Jester
    27291 posts Player of the Year
    happyblue wrote: »
    It's how the world works but you missed out the part about it being properly regulated?

    Buying at a low price and selling for 15% profit isn't unscrupulous it's an accepted practice in the real world when selling computer parts.

    Buying large quantities of baked beans and selling for 25% profit isn't unscrupulous it's a benefit of bulk buying.

    Buying Koscielny for 600 coins and selling for 5K is unscrupulous.

    Buying Lacazette for 80K and selling for 1 million coins is unscrupulous.

    It's unscrupulous to attempt to rip off your customers with exploitative pricing in the real world. It's deemed unacceptable and governments act by creating law to stop it from happening.

    This isn't even a real world market it's in a fun game and Chuboi highlighted it's supposed to be about fairness and fun and it got me thinking about the unscrupulous trading I was doing.


    but it is regulated? thats the whole point of the ranges unless im missing the point, but by the by, whos really at fault? the player who sold laca for 80k in the first place? the guy who bought him and flipped or the idiot who paid 1mil by buying at the wrong time?

  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    happyblue wrote: »
    1. Unwitting players do not use concept squads. They dont know how. They act like this: they notice they have 3000 coins, they decide to buy a new player. They go to market, might filter with max buy now 3K, possibly choose a league too. Then they buy what looks good, they dont check for cheaper versions of the card they want. "Oh wow, I can afford Phil Jones, gotta buy him NOW!"

    2. It is not scamming to sell high. NO-one is forcing lazy dudes to act as they do. In FIFA15 I actually was "a client" for traders from time to time. When i built my squad, i just bought the players(10K here, 10K there didnt matter).

    3. Price-fixing is a work of art. Its usually a demanding high risk, high reward operation

    4. Trading is not always too successful, go ask Karma about some Benzemas
    Do you think it's acceptable to justify unscrupulous trading by saying it's an art form to be able to exploit people and it's okay to do so because they are lazy?

    You're spitting out your justification about exploiting unwitting players even though it's very clear to me that it isn't them being lazy. They don't know they are being exploited which means they are unwitting, otherwise they would buy the cheaper players.

    Do you want to come up with another excuse for unscrupulous exploitation? Perhaps they're too stupid to buy the correctly priced items?

    If i dont know something, i can find it out. If i cant, im either lazy or stupid(or both).

    I have been experimenting with my 10-year old son. He is one those lazy buyers. And truly, LAZY.
    He has been told the mechanics, he even tried trading. But those lads just wont do it. Cant focus. "this is boring, i wanna buy that fabregas for 20K"
    You know first hand that exploitative pricing is very profitable and there are many like your 10-year-old son who need to be protected. You can call it lazy and I can call it unwitting or simply that some people don't understanding the value of coins.

    The people being targeted by unscrupulous traders aren't at fault.

    It's the people in charge that are fault but of course it's unintentional. The people in charge don't know they need to change the game to protect people from unscrupulous traders?
  • Michaelvb86
    165 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    The word 'unscrupulous' annoys the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me

  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    happyblue wrote: »
    It's how the world works but you missed out the part about it being properly regulated?

    Buying at a low price and selling for 15% profit isn't unscrupulous it's an accepted practice in the real world when selling computer parts.

    Buying large quantities of baked beans and selling for 25% profit isn't unscrupulous it's a benefit of bulk buying.

    Buying Koscielny for 600 coins and selling for 5K is unscrupulous.

    Buying Lacazette for 80K and selling for 1 million coins is unscrupulous.

    It's unscrupulous to attempt to rip off your customers with exploitative pricing in the real world. It's deemed unacceptable and governments act by creating law to stop it from happening.

    This isn't even a real world market it's in a fun game and Chuboi highlighted it's supposed to be about fairness and fun and it got me thinking about the unscrupulous trading I was doing.


    but it is regulated? thats the whole point of the ranges unless im missing the point, but by the by, whos really at fault? the player who sold laca for 80k in the first place? the guy who bought him and flipped or the idiot who paid 1mil by buying at the wrong time?
    I'm thinking noone is purposely at fault.

    What is adequate or proper regulation?

    Is it appropriate to provide potentially exploitable players with an easy to see average selling price and other enhancements to help them make better buying decisions.

    What about showing how much each item was bought for by the current owner? That way people will quickly learn how much unscrupulous trading is going on?
  • DoD_Jester
    27291 posts Player of the Year
    happyblue wrote: »
    I'm thinking noone is purposely at fault.

    What is adequate or proper regulation?

    Is it appropriate to provide potentially exploitable players with an easy to see average selling price and other enhancements to help them make better buying decisions.

    What about showing how much each item was bought for by the current owner? That way people will quickly learn how much unscrupulous trading is going on?


    And there we have it, its just the way it is, some thing have to be left to the end user, EA cant/shouldnt have to hold our hands and baby step us through the ENTIRE process, might aswell scrap the market
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    The word 'unscrupulous' annoys the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me
    Sorry about that.
  • Hurleybird10
    540 posts An Exciting Prospect
    If someone is willing to pay 20k for a fabregas then why can't I sell mine for that price??

  • Boabdust
    5123 posts Big Money Move
    The word 'unscrupulous' annoys the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me

    The amount of times he has used it trying to defend laziness is unreal
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    happyblue wrote: »
    I'm thinking noone is purposely at fault.

    What is adequate or proper regulation?

    Is it appropriate to provide potentially exploitable players with an easy to see average selling price and other enhancements to help them make better buying decisions.

    What about showing how much each item was bought for by the current owner? That way people will quickly learn how much unscrupulous trading is going on?


    And there we have it, its just the way it is, some thing have to be left to the end user, EA cant/shouldnt have to hold our hands and baby step us through the ENTIRE process, might aswell scrap the market
    As a society we're supposed to regulate as best we can to sort of keep things balanced.

    Market supply and demand should dictate average selling prices.

    I'm not suggesting EA should hold our hands more it's about providing useful information such displaying the average price of an item to help people gain an understanding of reasonable prices for items.

    I guess it's not really about people being lazy or unwitting or even exploitative, it's about encouraging fairness.
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    Boabdust wrote: »
    The word 'unscrupulous' annoys the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me

    The amount of times he has used it trying to defend laziness is unreal
    Sorry, I need to get better at not repeating myself.
  • DoD_Jester
    27291 posts Player of the Year
    happyblue wrote: »
    happyblue wrote: »
    I'm thinking noone is purposely at fault.

    What is adequate or proper regulation?

    Is it appropriate to provide potentially exploitable players with an easy to see average selling price and other enhancements to help them make better buying decisions.

    What about showing how much each item was bought for by the current owner? That way people will quickly learn how much unscrupulous trading is going on?


    And there we have it, its just the way it is, some thing have to be left to the end user, EA cant/shouldnt have to hold our hands and baby step us through the ENTIRE process, might aswell scrap the market
    As a society we're supposed to regulate as best we can to sort of keep things balanced.

    Market supply and demand should dictate average selling prices.

    I'm not suggesting EA should hold our hands more it's about providing useful information such displaying the average price of an item to help people gain an understanding of reasonable prices for items.

    I guess it's not really about people being lazy or unwitting or even exploitative, it's about encouraging fairness.

    people win, people lose, its a game, there is no magic formula, the 'fairness' simply comes from dictating trends, doing your OWN research and making a choice based on what you learn from that, the tools are all there, market filters, sites like futbin(once we have the webapp back) its not rocket science mate

  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    happyblue wrote: »
    happyblue wrote: »
    I'm thinking noone is purposely at fault.

    What is adequate or proper regulation?

    Is it appropriate to provide potentially exploitable players with an easy to see average selling price and other enhancements to help them make better buying decisions.

    What about showing how much each item was bought for by the current owner? That way people will quickly learn how much unscrupulous trading is going on?


    And there we have it, its just the way it is, some thing have to be left to the end user, EA cant/shouldnt have to hold our hands and baby step us through the ENTIRE process, might aswell scrap the market
    As a society we're supposed to regulate as best we can to sort of keep things balanced.

    Market supply and demand should dictate average selling prices.

    I'm not suggesting EA should hold our hands more it's about providing useful information such displaying the average price of an item to help people gain an understanding of reasonable prices for items.

    I guess it's not really about people being lazy or unwitting or even exploitative, it's about encouraging fairness.

    people win, people lose, its a game, there is no magic formula, the 'fairness' simply comes from dictating trends, doing your OWN research and making a choice based on what you learn from that, the tools are all there, market filters, sites like futbin(once we have the webapp back) its not rocket science mate
    I get what you're saying and normally I would be thinking go for the profit too. My profit in FUT 15 was in the millions like many others on here and I didn't care about the people I exploited.

    But Chuboi was talking about fairness and it got me thinking that many players are vulnerable to exploitation. Many kids play the game and like was said earlier they don't understand value like we do and of course it's not rocket science but people aren't so stupid that they think it is difficult like rocket science.

    For whatever reason people are vulnerable to exploitation and we know from past FUT games it's happening a lot yet a simple change like prominently displaying the average selling price of an item would change all that.

    We wouldn't make as much profit as quickly as we did in past games but coins are going to be incredibly valuable and approriate price ranges can work where we don't actually need to exploit people for millions of coins.
  • Hurleybird10
    540 posts An Exciting Prospect
    This whole topic is winding me up the more I read it..... It's a free market, people can sell as high or low as they want within the set ranges. If people are too lazy to take 10 secs to search the lowest bin of a player then that's their own fault!!

    As mentioned previously, there are sites out there that help with prices, so to say people are being exploited is a bit of a joke, explotation is where they don't have a choice!!

  • Viggo 007
    12248 posts Has That Special Something
    GTFO
  • Agent VZ
    29162 posts Player of the Year
    That's the whole fun Of trading dude. Last year after ranges the player ranges were small and took out trading of the game.. Made the game boring and dull with no incentive. If that's the case this year your only way to go up would be spending 1000s of $ which would make a lot of players leave the game by December. Best thing ea has done in a while.
  • happyblue
    349 posts Sunday League Hero
    Trading is too important. I get the message lads.

    Time for me to keep my mouth shut. :no_mouth:
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