Manchester United Football Club

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  • VVD4
    6457 posts Big Money Move
    edited April 20
    yosef167 wrote: »
    @VVD4 the point you are missing here is that our post Fergie period Ed forced players to managers and we had no clear identity .. we only signed players who Just would bring money to the club inatead of players who would Fit the way we play .
    This time its not going to be Add 10 stars. it will be .. add whoever fit the new manager style of play
    From the squad you mentioned here i would say
    telles ,Dalot might work for ten hag .. shaw maybe... AWB no chance.
    Bailly leaving.. Maguire wont fit the new style ... Varane and lindelof would fit
    Matic leaving ... Fred if he doesnt up His game with his Passes he wont fit ... Mct Maybe . VDB will be perfect for ETH ..
    Bruno is pefrect as well
    From the strikers i can only trust having sancho .. Ronaldo... Elanga

    There are alot of rooms to improve so yea in our case players needed to every position as half of the squad might not fit the New Style that should ETH bring with him
    Liverpool still has only 4 or 5 players from the Klopp first liverpool squad and nothing more.. which show that also Klopp had to change whole squad that fits him to Bring succes

    It has been nearly 7 years, that's why. It was a slow and steady process. Klopp didn't build this team in his first summer. It went like this:

    Phase 1

    16/17: Mane, Wijnaldum (now gone) and Matip

    17/18: Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain and VVD.

    18/19: Alisson, Keita, Fabinho and Shaqiri (now gone).

    19/20: Adrian and Minamino

    Phase 2 (slow rebuild/future-proofing)

    20/21: Jota, Thiago and Tsimikas

    21/22: Konate and Diaz

    It shouldn't take you as long as it took Klopp, as your current squad is far better than the one Klopp took over, but this is the way it should be done. Overhauling 6-10 players in one window is extremely unrealistic. Slow and steady wins the race.
    Ashy wrote: »
    Only adding 4 good players is all well and good but the core of this team stinks, they need to not only sign players that are very good in those positions you've said (CB, DM, CM, ST) but they also need to fit ETH system and most importantly they need to have the right mentality, personality and leadership because this team lacks those 3 things right now.

    Now if they go get Pau Torres, Rice, Tielemans, Kane that gives you those 3 things, as well as obviously elite quality but do they fit the ETH system?

    All 4 of those players would cost like £300m so it's unlikely ETH is given that sort of money unless they make some sales but from your list @VVD4 it seems you only have Dean Hendo being sold which would bring in like £25-30m max

    Again, I don't think the players at United are as bad as they've been this season. The core of the team stinks right now, you are correct, but that could quickly change if ETH gives them a new lease on life. We saw some of these very same players playing much better stuff last season than what they're serving up this year.

    Every summer, seemingly without fail, United seem to go for the big name signings. Every year, seemingly without fail, it doesn't work out. ETH/the transfer team need to change tact and actually look for gems that have great underlying numbers and fit the style that ETH wants to play, without breaking the bank.

    Using Liverpool as an example again, how many of our players were signed with the expectation of genuinely being world class? The likes of Mane, Robertson, Salah, Konate, Jota, Wijnaldum, etc were either mocked at the time, or expected to simply underwhelm, because they were signed from smaller Clubs and were not the fancy type of signings you'd see the likes of United, Chelsea and City making. Yet look at what they've become. Even VVD was mocked, due to his price tag and the fact he came from Southampton.

    I feel this is what United need to do. Obviously, they can make big signings still, we did it with Thiago, for example, and it has worked out, but it has got to be done carefully and methodically. Something they've not done since SAF left.

    4 good signings this summer, and spend the season transitioning into the new playstyle. ETH can use this time to figure out who can do it and who can't, and the 2nd summer will be more important.
  • yosef167
    5225 posts Big Money Move
    @VVD4 i can agree with you and i think we will do it the right way this time as football men are working this time instead of banker and Teacher to build the team
  • Rand0m Hero
    1219 posts Professional
    VVD4 wrote: »
    yosef167 wrote: »
    @VVD4 the point you are missing here is that our post Fergie period Ed forced players to managers and we had no clear identity .. we only signed players who Just would bring money to the club inatead of players who would Fit the way we play .
    This time its not going to be Add 10 stars. it will be .. add whoever fit the new manager style of play
    From the squad you mentioned here i would say
    telles ,Dalot might work for ten hag .. shaw maybe... AWB no chance.
    Bailly leaving.. Maguire wont fit the new style ... Varane and lindelof would fit
    Matic leaving ... Fred if he doesnt up His game with his Passes he wont fit ... Mct Maybe . VDB will be perfect for ETH ..
    Bruno is pefrect as well
    From the strikers i can only trust having sancho .. Ronaldo... Elanga

    There are alot of rooms to improve so yea in our case players needed to every position as half of the squad might not fit the New Style that should ETH bring with him
    Liverpool still has only 4 or 5 players from the Klopp first liverpool squad and nothing more.. which show that also Klopp had to change whole squad that fits him to Bring succes

    It has been nearly 7 years, that's why. It was a slow and steady process. Klopp didn't build this team in his first summer. It went like this:

    Phase 1

    16/17: Mane, Wijnaldum (now gone) and Matip

    17/18: Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain and VVD.

    18/19: Alisson, Keita, Fabinho and Shaqiri (now gone).

    19/20: Adrian and Minamino

    Phase 2 (slow rebuild/future-proofing)

    20/21: Jota, Thiago and Tsimikas

    21/22: Konate and Diaz

    It shouldn't take you as long as it took Klopp, as your current squad is far better than the one Klopp took over, but this is the way it should be done. Overhauling 6-10 players in one window is extremely unrealistic. Slow and steady wins the race.
    Ashy wrote: »
    Only adding 4 good players is all well and good but the core of this team stinks, they need to not only sign players that are very good in those positions you've said (CB, DM, CM, ST) but they also need to fit ETH system and most importantly they need to have the right mentality, personality and leadership because this team lacks those 3 things right now.

    Now if they go get Pau Torres, Rice, Tielemans, Kane that gives you those 3 things, as well as obviously elite quality but do they fit the ETH system?

    All 4 of those players would cost like £300m so it's unlikely ETH is given that sort of money unless they make some sales but from your list @VVD4 it seems you only have Dean Hendo being sold which would bring in like £25-30m max

    Again, I don't think the players at United are as bad as they've been this season. The core of the team stinks right now, you are correct, but that could quickly change if ETH gives them a new lease on life. We saw some of these very same players playing much better stuff last season than what they're serving up this year.

    Every summer, seemingly without fail, United seem to go for the big name signings. Every year, seemingly without fail, it doesn't work out. ETH/the transfer team need to change tact and actually look for gems that have great underlying numbers and fit the style that ETH wants to play, without breaking the bank.

    Using Liverpool as an example again, how many of our players were signed with the expectation of genuinely being world class? The likes of Mane, Robertson, Salah, Konate, Jota, Wijnaldum, etc were either mocked at the time, or expected to simply underwhelm, because they were signed from smaller Clubs and were not the fancy type of signings you'd see the likes of United, Chelsea and City making. Yet look at what they've become. Even VVD was mocked, due to his price tag and the fact he came from Southampton.

    I feel this is what United need to do. Obviously, they can make big signings still, we did it with Thiago, for example, and it has worked out, but it has got to be done carefully and methodically. Something they've not done since SAF left.

    4 good signings this summer, and spend the season transitioning into the new playstyle. ETH can use this time to figure out who can do it and who can't, and the 2nd summer will be more important.
    That’s what some of us were getting at yesterday. I personally don’t want the big flashy signing that has already made their career and isn’t hungry for success. Give me two guys in his place who are talented and hungry to prove something. Liverpool absolutely did it the right way because Klopp has a vision and a system and the player acquisition team was in alignment with both those things. I personally don’t see the need for ten outside signings. I’m betting half that will be youth and players back from loan. The midfield is in need of the most attention of options outside the club especially with Pogba likely out the door. The rest of the squad is serviceable enough to challenge top 4 next season and build from there. Assuming injuries aren’t as bad as this season.
  • Teh Zombz
    5344 posts Big Money Move
    the only thing giving me a bit hope for next season is that we have a DoF now so the signings should be more in line with what the current manager wants

    VVD is correct btw, this squad is definitely good enough for a top 4 finish and this massive rebuild that fans want is a bit OTT
    some players definitely need binning next season but we do have a good group of players here, hopefully we build around them instead of just starting from scratch again
  • VVD4
    6457 posts Big Money Move
    edited April 20
    IIRC, ETH uses a 4-3-3?

    Ronaldo, Sancho and Rashford make up what should be a killer front line already, providing ETH gets them playing how they have done in the past.

    You'd assume ETH would be playing VBD in CM. Bruno Fernandes or Pogba (if he stays) can play alongside him. A specialist DM is required to sit behind them. I've got a feeling that ETH is going to like Fred, btw (not necessarily as a DM).

    I'm just gonna do a line-up:

    Sancho/Martial - Ronaldo - Rashford/Elanga/New RW
    Fernandes/Pogba/New CM - VDB/Fred
    New DM/Fred/McTominay
    Shaw/Telles - New CB/Maguire - Varane/Lindelof - Dalot/AWB
    DDG

    You're not far off having a really good squad for ETH, tbh. The above would actually be doable in one summer window, if you're willing to spend (which you always are).

    That squad should easily get top 4, imo.
  • Ashy
    20966 posts Club Captain
    edited April 20
    Pogba is definitely off, along with Matic, Mata, Cavani and Lingard all for free, according to a website I doubt is correct but close to accuracy that's almost £900k saved in wages.

    I would assume the likes of Dean Henderson, Bailly, Jones, Martial and Pereira will be permanently off or loaned out with an option. Plus we don't know what will happen with Greenwood but let's assume he never plays for Man Utd again.

    De Gea, AWB, Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Telles, Garner, Mctom, Fred, VDB, Bruno, Rashford, Elanga, Sancho, Ronaldo.

    That's 17 players in a streamlined squad, 4-5 new additions with plenty of wages free sounds good. 8 homegrown players too so don't have to worry about that side of things. Add about 2-3 youth graduates that's a 25 man squad

    Edit: there are question marks over Rashford because he's not happy with his minutes, feels he should be starting more and Sancho seem to have taken the left side (Rashford's preferred side) not so good on the right and Man Utd most likely sign a player that is natural on the right. So unless he's happy to be the utility guy as back up to the wings and striker he could be off
  • yosef167
    5225 posts Big Money Move
    VVD4 wrote: »
    IIRC, ETH uses a 4-3-3?

    Ronaldo, Sancho and Rashford make up what should be a killer front line already, providing ETH gets them playing how they have done in the past.

    You'd assume ETH would be playing VBD in CM. Bruno Fernandes or Pogba (if he stays) can play alongside him. A specialist DM is required to sit behind them. I've got a feeling that ETH is going to like Fred, btw (not necessarily as a DM).

    I'm just gonna do a line-up:

    Sancho/Martial - Ronaldo - Rashford/Elanga/New RW
    Fernandes/Pogba/New CM - VDB/Fred
    New DM/Fred/McTominay
    Shaw/Telles - New CB/Maguire - Varane/Lindelof - Dalot/AWB
    DDG

    You're not far off having a really good squad for ETH, tbh. The above would actually be doable in one summer window, if you're willing to spend (which you always are).

    That squad should easily get top 4, imo.
    Ten hag is 4231 coach which is similar for what we have
    but the diff is that he likes his CDMs to be Technical and hard working rather than physical with ability to shot from second line.. lets say Thiago type player

    Lets say top 4 should be easy in term Spurs and arsenal doesnt improve much.. if we are 3 points behind them in disaster season for us then its not hard to take over them if they dont step up and we Establish a good game finally
  • Rand0m Hero
    1219 posts Professional
    I think Diallo comes back and goes into the rotation on the wing next season. The need for another striker can be pushed back a season since I think Ronaldo is staying, Bruno can be rotated there and Garnacho probably gets called up for game time as well. Mix in Rashford too most likely. The immediate needs are midfield and I think an RB. A CB is likely needed as well but I don’t see a major buy there. Probably a rotation player this summer.
  • Tornado31619
    32767 posts National Team Captain
    Ronaldo returned to full training today.

    Anyone who wants him out of the club doesn’t deserve it to be rebuilt.
  • NucksNation
    4542 posts National Call-Up
    What ralf said was 6 or 7 and he kept going till 10, so it doesn’t necessarily mean we will get 10 new world class players infront of DDG, we could see maybe 3-4 at best and slowly rebuild at the next window and so on, what he meant was that no one is safe.


    I also feel good that he had a chance to see this mess himself and actually believe when the coach says we need this position or x player changed, he felt this embarrassment himself first hand

    I believe we will get Anthony but man I wanted gravenberch but looks he’s heading to Byern M.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    35486 posts World Cup Winner
    edited April 20
    Teh Zombz wrote: »
    the only thing giving me a bit hope for next season is that we have a DoF now so the signings should be more in line with what the current manager wants

    VVD is correct btw, this squad is definitely good enough for a top 4 finish and this massive rebuild that fans want is a bit OTT
    some players definitely need binning next season but we do have a good group of players here, hopefully we build around them instead of just starting from scratch again

    Agreed with you and VVD.

    We have quality in the team. Morale is just at an all time low and there's no real team spirit as Keane eluded to in that clip. If ETH can turn all that around and implement a proper system we will be alright. We definitely need a clear out, but we already have a massive squad so there's no need to feel like just because we lose say 8 players we must sign 8 players. There's a few must need signing IMO that should be addressed, but we don't need to replace everyone going out.

    A DM and a CB would probably be top 2 targets and maybe another ST for depth and then potentially another midfielder since we will be losing a few. VDB returning would lessen the blow. We should be fine on the wings with Diallo returning and ideally Rashford bouncing back.
  • yosef167
    5225 posts Big Money Move
    i will translate this Article
    background about ETH it might let you Know his head more

    "After years of building a patch on a patch, ETH is supposed to make order. This is how he sees the role of coach, and it is not for nothing that he hung in his office at Ajax, and also in his previous teams, pictures of Rinus Michals and Johan Cruyff.(his idols)

    So he's Dutch, but he's really not fixated. Unlike his predecessors at Ajax, changed ETH from the traditional set-up 4:3:3, and implemented other tactical methods, including 4:2:3:1. It exhibits flexibility of thought, never goes with his head against the wall, and is also immune to negative criticism. Unlike many coaches, ETH completely ignores those who try to mock him. He knows how to go with his truth to the end, and so far that willingness has brought him mostly successes. Therefore, despite the Dutch identity, he also has German and Catalan aspects of character – and this reminds Manchester United of both Liverpool and Manchester City.

    why? He worked closely with Pep Guardiola for two years, serving as bayern Munich's reserve team coach from 2013 to 2015. 'I've watched most of the training pep has spent, and I've seen how he's changing football in Germany. I took a lot from him – how he translates his philosophy onto the field, how he builds the game, how he gives specific instructions to the players. Sometimes he did it in a group, sometimes in one-on-one conversations.It was all planned for the details," he said in retrospect. As a fan of the Catalan, he has often been defined as a possible successor at Manchester City, if and when Pep decides to leave, but now that scenario will be less relevant. He also fell in love with Bayern, and returning to it is the biggest dream of his life. One day, it may come true.

    only when he was 42 years old ETH dared to go on his way as an independent coach, and that patience attests to his character. He wasn't in a hurry anywhere, waiting for the right opportunity.

    Being Dutch who is both quite German and a bit Catalan, his personality has quite a few contrasts that make him superior. He's a perfectionist and meticulous, but approaches every task with an open mind. He is a tactician with grace and gives precise instructions, but encourages independent thinking first. "In modern football there is a tendency to program things, and players sometimes look helplessly towards the bench if the opponent suddenly changes tactics. I think every player can solve the problems on the field on their own if he dares," he says. And boldness is the key word for him. "I prefer the wrong decision to the lack of a decision," he states.
    If Manchester United's Barcelona want to resemble Liverpool and Manchester City, it must give its new coach a lot of power in decision making and plenty of time to build something in the medium and long term.
  • El_Nino
    9802 posts League Winner
    Agree with @VVD4 , you don't suddenly need a huge rebuild, you need a few specialist players that suit ETH, and ETH needs to implement his plan and get people playing to their potential again.

    Rashford--CR7--Sancho
    VDB--Bruno
    ??
    Shaw--??--Varane--Dalot
    DDG

    That's still an incredibly strong team on paper with just a couple of signings, if ETH can get those players even close to their best.
  • Kman
    4184 posts National Call-Up
    I see Antony coming so he’ll take that RW with Sancho on the left. A midfield of Bruno, a confident and fit VDB and a solid high quality DM would go a long way to solving some problems.
  • yosef167
    5225 posts Big Money Move









    thats going to be serious if true
    they reported that ten hag want to know his full team before August so only may june and july for transfers
  • Stlducks
    9376 posts League Winner
    Problem for ten hag is a lot of clubs do business at the end of the window. No way you will be able to sell players before August unless you sell them at a discount.
  • Ashy
    20966 posts Club Captain
    edited April 20
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Problem for ten hag is a lot of clubs do business at the end of the window. No way you will be able to sell players before August unless you sell them at a discount.

    What's worse is Man Utd tend to hold out for too much so it will be interesting to see.

    Like AWB I expect a team in the PL may pay about £25-30m for Man Utd would want close to what they paid, £45-50m

    Rashford will be difficult to get rid of because of his massive wages and I expect Man Utd to think they can get like £70m for him

    If they are realistic with the Martial, Bailly and Telles prices a foreign club will come in and take them.
  • Ashy
    20966 posts Club Captain
    Crazy to think VDB can't even get in that Everton team yet he's expected to start for Man Utd next season
  • Tornado31619
    32767 posts National Team Captain
    I like Neves but he’s not an anchor
  • Rand0m Hero
    1219 posts Professional
    I would prefer the Neves type of transfer over Rice. I don’t doubt Declan Rice but I personally think multiple holding mids could do the job and you don’t have to spend big to find one. I think Nunez is more realistic than Kane.
  • El_Nino
    9802 posts League Winner
    I would prefer the Neves type of transfer over Rice. I don’t doubt Declan Rice but I personally think multiple holding mids could do the job and you don’t have to spend big to find one. I think Nunez is more realistic than Kane.

    As someone whose watched Chelsea struggle without a natural CDM I couldn't disagree anymore, if your playing with a lone CDM, like ETH does(I think?), A fantastic one like Rice is an absolute must.
  • Kman
    4184 posts National Call-Up
    Yeah I’d say Rice would be huge get for us. Rice and someone like a Nunez would be great for immediate impact players.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    35486 posts World Cup Winner
    Ashy wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Problem for ten hag is a lot of clubs do business at the end of the window. No way you will be able to sell players before August unless you sell them at a discount.

    What's worse is Man Utd tend to hold out for too much so it will be interesting to see.

    Like AWB I expect a team in the PL may pay about £25-30m for Man Utd would want close to what they paid, £45-50m

    Rashford will be difficult to get rid of because of his massive wages and I expect Man Utd to think they can get like £70m for him

    If they are realistic with the Martial, Bailly and Telles prices a foreign club will come in and take them.

    Ed's not in charge anymore, so I'd like to think that selling prices will be more realistic from our side of things.
  • Cyodine
    5861 posts Big Money Move
    Kman wrote: »
    Yeah I’d say Rice would be huge get for us. Rice and someone like a Nunez would be great for immediate impact players.

    I guess I need to watch some highlight reels of Rice to understand what people see in him that justifies his price tag that sets him apart from cheaper options.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    35486 posts World Cup Winner
    Cyodine wrote: »
    Kman wrote: »
    Yeah I’d say Rice would be huge get for us. Rice and someone like a Nunez would be great for immediate impact players.

    I guess I need to watch some highlight reels of Rice to understand what people see in him that justifies his price tag that sets him apart from cheaper options.

    I'm in the same boat. He's good no doubt, but I'd rather have Neves for the money. Plus it's not as if Bruno and/or VDB won't be working their ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off to get back and defend
  • yosef167
    5225 posts Big Money Move
    I dont want another English Overrated and over priced player
    Enough with maguire
  • NucksNation
    4542 posts National Call-Up
    I hope we don’t just go and get Kane and rice.. they are not solutions but rather take up entire budget, we need a DM but there are better options in terms of price and quality compare to rice, we can take a goon from athletico

    VDB can still be a good CM for us and under ETH he can be utilized the same way as he did in Ajax.. if Rashford wants to leave, sell him for 50-70m and replace him with Antony
  • Low Ki
    14244 posts Has That Special Something
    Rice's valuation is purely to do with his age and assuming he's got some sort of Football Manager style rating baked into his future that's guaranteed. Is he world class right now? Not really, he just stands out because he's a ball winner who and driving the ball forward as per the West Ham gameplan.

    Yet to be impressed with his technical ability and vision beyond that. He's just your typical English midfielder for a 442.

    If he can learn this and adds it to his game it's one thing, but the prices being thrown around right now are solely because of Maguire and Grealish's price tags.

    If he wasn't the latest English hype (like Winks, Longstaff etc) he'd be a 60-80m player at best in this market.
  • Tornado31619
    32767 posts National Team Captain
    Yeah, my post Maguire stress disorder inclines me towards other options.
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