Liverpool Football Club

Comments

  • Ashy
    17996 posts World Class
    Never said Chelsea whole team is clearly better

    I have Chelsea winning the league and Liverpool closely 2nd with City 3rd very fine margins all within like 6 points of each other
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    Ashy wrote: »
    Never said Chelsea whole team is clearly better

    I have Chelsea winning the league and Liverpool closely 2nd with City 3rd very fine margins all within like 6 points of each other

    Fair enough, but I am talking about the people in the summer who said our squad wasn't on the level of United and Chelsea's.

    It clearly is.
  • SimenHP
    4809 posts Big Money Move
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited November 2021
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving @Pietu a run for his money.
  • Cyodine
    4380 posts National Call-Up
    El_Nino wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Mane - Firmino - Salah
    Thiago - Henderson
    Fabinho
    Robertson - VVD - Matip - TAA
    Alisson

    Jota - Origi - Minamino
    Keita/AOC - Elliot/Jones
    Milner
    Tsimikas - Konate - Gomez/Phillips - N.Williams
    Kelleher/Adrian

    I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone can view that as a weaker overall squad than what Chelsea or United have.

    Let's compare to Chelsea, for argument's sake, and we'll use Chelsea's 3atb 11s to make it easier (and this isn't based on just this season alone):

    Alisson = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    VVD > Rudiger
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Christensen
    TAA > James
    Fabinho > Jorginho
    Thiago = Kovacic
    Salah > Lukaku
    Mane > Werner
    Firmino > Havertz

    7 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws and 2 in Chelsea's favour.

    Kelleher < Kepa
    Tsimikas = Chilwell
    Gomez = Azpilicueta
    Phillips = Chabolah
    N/A < Sarr
    N.Williams < CHO
    Henderson < Kante
    Keita > RLC
    Elliot < Mount
    Jota > Pulisic
    Origi > Ziyech

    3 in Liverpool's favour, 3 draws and 5 in Chelsea's favour.

    Some leftovers:

    Milner = Saul
    Jones = Barkley
    AOC > N/A
    Minamino > N/A

    2 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws, 0 in Chelsea's favour.

    That leaves my total as

    12 in Liverpool's favour, 7 draws and 7 in Chelsea's favour.

    I think I have been more than fair too.

    The issue with things like this, is how you match players up makes all the difference, plus the travesty that is rating the likes of Tsimikas and Gomez equal to Azpi/Chilwell.

    Allison = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    Tsimikas < Chilwell
    VVD > Rudiger(not on current form but overall)
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Andreas
    Phillips < Chalobah
    Gomez < Azpi
    TAA > James (James is better IMO but I grant time at the top level gives Trent the edge)
    Williams < CHO
    Fabinho = Kante
    Henderson < Kova
    Thiago < Jorginho
    Keita = RLC(Both great when they've played this season but useless due to injury in the past)
    Elliot < Pulisic
    Salah > Werner
    Mane > Havertz
    Firmino < Lukaku
    Jota < Mount
    Origi > Ziyech(I put Jorginho over Thiago due to what they've done for Chelsea/Liverpool so only fair to give Origi this one).

    3 draws, 6 for Liverpool, 11 for Chelsea, and I could easily make a case for Mendy > Allison/ Kante > Fab.

    All these lists ever show is how bias we all are.

    At least pass around what you're smoking because it must be good.
  • SimenHP
    4809 posts Big Money Move
    edited November 2021
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving @Pietu a run for his money.

    Above everyone? You're god damn right I am :wink:



    I have nothing against reading a good argument here and there. But on this, the Chelsea thread and the PL thread it's the same debates over and over again, about who has the best club and if LP was considered to win the league or if they will only get top 4.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    SimenHP wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving @Pietu a run for his money.

    Above everyone? You're god damn right I am :wink:



    I have nothing against reading a good argument here and there. But on this, the Chelsea thread and the PL thread it's the same debates over and over again, about who has the best club and if LP was considered to win the league or if they will only get top 4.

    Start some new topics then.
  • WryLucky
    5431 posts Big Money Move
    I read these threads purely for entertainment purposes
  • Pietu
    10731 posts Has That Special Something
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving Pietu a run for his money.

    You're the only one who acts that way.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited November 2021
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving Pietu a run for his money.

    You're the only one who acts that way.

    I’m argumentative. I debate. I’m relentless. I troll. I banter.

    But I do not act like I’m above anyone.

    No person, or topic is beneath me.
  • Ashy
    17996 posts World Class
    Well at least you admit to the rest of it
  • Pietu
    10731 posts Has That Special Something
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving Pietu a run for his money.

    You're the only one who acts that way.

    I’m argumentative. I debate. I’m relentless. I troll. I banter.

    But I do not act like I’m above anyone.

    No person, or topic is beneath me.

    And I've said it earlier that I don't think I'm above everyone. So stop with that BS.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving Pietu a run for his money.

    You're the only one who acts that way.

    I’m argumentative. I debate. I’m relentless. I troll. I banter.

    But I do not act like I’m above anyone.

    No person, or topic is beneath me.

    And I've said it earlier that I don't think I'm above everyone. So stop with that BS.

    Sorry, mate.
  • Pietu
    10731 posts Has That Special Something
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Pietu wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    47 new posts. Something huge has happened, right? Nope, it's just the usual arguments that only 3 people care about that the rest of us have to skip through.

    At least I didn’t bring any of it up/start it this time.

    Your comment is stupid anyway. I’m sure plenty enjoy reading these debates, and it’s clear that people care, or they wouldn’t get involved.

    It’s a forum, ffs.

    Stop acting like you’re above everyone. You’re giving Pietu a run for his money.

    You're the only one who acts that way.

    I’m argumentative. I debate. I’m relentless. I troll. I banter.

    But I do not act like I’m above anyone.

    No person, or topic is beneath me.

    And I've said it earlier that I don't think I'm above everyone. So stop with that BS.

    Sorry, mate.

    Don't worry about it.
  • El_Nino
    8959 posts League Winner
    VVD4 wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Mane - Firmino - Salah
    Thiago - Henderson
    Fabinho
    Robertson - VVD - Matip - TAA
    Alisson

    Jota - Origi - Minamino
    Keita/AOC - Elliot/Jones
    Milner
    Tsimikas - Konate - Gomez/Phillips - N.Williams
    Kelleher/Adrian

    I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone can view that as a weaker overall squad than what Chelsea or United have.

    Let's compare to Chelsea, for argument's sake, and we'll use Chelsea's 3atb 11s to make it easier (and this isn't based on just this season alone):

    Alisson = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    VVD > Rudiger
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Christensen
    TAA > James
    Fabinho > Jorginho
    Thiago = Kovacic
    Salah > Lukaku
    Mane > Werner
    Firmino > Havertz

    7 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws and 2 in Chelsea's favour.

    Kelleher < Kepa
    Tsimikas = Chilwell
    Gomez = Azpilicueta
    Phillips = Chabolah
    N/A < Sarr
    N.Williams < CHO
    Henderson < Kante
    Keita > RLC
    Elliot < Mount
    Jota > Pulisic
    Origi > Ziyech

    3 in Liverpool's favour, 3 draws and 5 in Chelsea's favour.

    Some leftovers:

    Milner = Saul
    Jones = Barkley
    AOC > N/A
    Minamino > N/A

    2 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws, 0 in Chelsea's favour.

    That leaves my total as

    12 in Liverpool's favour, 7 draws and 7 in Chelsea's favour.

    I think I have been more than fair too.

    The issue with things like this, is how you match players up makes all the difference, plus the travesty that is rating the likes of Tsimikas and Gomez equal to Azpi/Chilwell.

    Allison = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    Tsimikas < Chilwell
    VVD > Rudiger(not on current form but overall)
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Andreas
    Phillips < Chalobah
    Gomez < Azpi
    TAA > James (James is better IMO but I grant time at the top level gives Trent the edge)
    Williams < CHO
    Fabinho = Kante
    Henderson < Kova
    Thiago < Jorginho
    Keita = RLC(Both great when they've played this season but useless due to injury in the past)
    Elliot < Pulisic
    Salah > Werner
    Mane > Havertz
    Firmino < Lukaku
    Jota < Mount
    Origi > Ziyech(I put Jorginho over Thiago due to what they've done for Chelsea/Liverpool so only fair to give Origi this one).

    3 draws, 6 for Liverpool, 11 for Chelsea, and I could easily make a case for Mendy > Allison/ Kante > Fab.

    All these lists ever show is how bias we all are.

    This one is horrifically biased lmfao.

    I had the sense to be pretty fair and I get this crap back?

    Lol okay.

    Judging from the only neutral that did this too, we were both horrifically bias, you equally so.

    Calling me bias while you had the likes of Tsimikas as equal to Chilwell is madness, it's crystal clear your list was bias too.

    But your always one for a debate, so tell me which you disagree with?
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    El_Nino wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Mane - Firmino - Salah
    Thiago - Henderson
    Fabinho
    Robertson - VVD - Matip - TAA
    Alisson

    Jota - Origi - Minamino
    Keita/AOC - Elliot/Jones
    Milner
    Tsimikas - Konate - Gomez/Phillips - N.Williams
    Kelleher/Adrian

    I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone can view that as a weaker overall squad than what Chelsea or United have.

    Let's compare to Chelsea, for argument's sake, and we'll use Chelsea's 3atb 11s to make it easier (and this isn't based on just this season alone):

    Alisson = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    VVD > Rudiger
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Christensen
    TAA > James
    Fabinho > Jorginho
    Thiago = Kovacic
    Salah > Lukaku
    Mane > Werner
    Firmino > Havertz

    7 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws and 2 in Chelsea's favour.

    Kelleher < Kepa
    Tsimikas = Chilwell
    Gomez = Azpilicueta
    Phillips = Chabolah
    N/A < Sarr
    N.Williams < CHO
    Henderson < Kante
    Keita > RLC
    Elliot < Mount
    Jota > Pulisic
    Origi > Ziyech

    3 in Liverpool's favour, 3 draws and 5 in Chelsea's favour.

    Some leftovers:

    Milner = Saul
    Jones = Barkley
    AOC > N/A
    Minamino > N/A

    2 in Liverpool's favour, 2 draws, 0 in Chelsea's favour.

    That leaves my total as

    12 in Liverpool's favour, 7 draws and 7 in Chelsea's favour.

    I think I have been more than fair too.

    The issue with things like this, is how you match players up makes all the difference, plus the travesty that is rating the likes of Tsimikas and Gomez equal to Azpi/Chilwell.

    Allison = Mendy
    Robertson > Alonso
    Tsimikas < Chilwell
    VVD > Rudiger(not on current form but overall)
    Matip < T.Silva
    Konate < Andreas
    Phillips < Chalobah
    Gomez < Azpi
    TAA > James (James is better IMO but I grant time at the top level gives Trent the edge)
    Williams < CHO
    Fabinho = Kante
    Henderson < Kova
    Thiago < Jorginho
    Keita = RLC(Both great when they've played this season but useless due to injury in the past)
    Elliot < Pulisic
    Salah > Werner
    Mane > Havertz
    Firmino < Lukaku
    Jota < Mount
    Origi > Ziyech(I put Jorginho over Thiago due to what they've done for Chelsea/Liverpool so only fair to give Origi this one).

    3 draws, 6 for Liverpool, 11 for Chelsea, and I could easily make a case for Mendy > Allison/ Kante > Fab.

    All these lists ever show is how bias we all are.

    This one is horrifically biased lmfao.

    I had the sense to be pretty fair and I get this crap back?

    Lol okay.

    Judging from the only neutral that did this too, we were both horrifically bias, you equally so.

    Calling me bias while you had the likes of Tsimikas as equal to Chilwell is madness, it's crystal clear your list was bias too.

    But your always one for a debate, so tell me which you disagree with?

    Tsimikas has been unbelievable. It’s genuinely a wonder that he isn’t starting ahead of Robertson these days, and if you’re a player that most Liverpool fans would genuinely agree could be starting ahead of Robertson, they you’ve surely got to be on par with Chilwell, because Robertson is better than Chilwell.

    I really rate Chilwell. It’s not a slight on him at all. It’s just a massive, deserved praise for Tsimikas.

    I cba to address the rest because your list is clearly nonsense. Maybe when I’ve got a bit more time.
  • arsenalap
    11641 posts Has That Special Something
    edited November 2021
    Mendy = Alisson
    James < Trent
    Christensen = Konate
    Silva > Matip
    Rudiger < VVD
    Chilwell < Robbo
    Jorginho < Fabinho
    Kante > Thiago
    Havertz < Salah
    Lukaku > Firmino
    Werner < Mane

    Chelsea 3-2-6. Liverpool win starting XI but not that surprising.

    Kepa > Kelleher
    CHO > Williams/Milner
    Azpi > Gomez
    Chalobah > Phillips
    Alonso = Tsmikas (I like Tsimikas but, it's been 7 games..)
    Kovacic > Hendo
    Saul/RLC < Keita
    Barkey = Ox
    Mount > Elliott
    Pulisic < Jota
    Ziyech = Origi

    Chelsea 6-2-3. Chelsea win in depth. For me it's roughly like that.
  • Kellnerr
    4808 posts National Call-Up
    @arsenalap 's seems about right to me.
  • Snugglebites
    2719 posts Fans' Favourite
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.
  • SimenHP
    4809 posts Big Money Move
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.
  • Snugglebites
    2719 posts Fans' Favourite
    SimenHP wrote: »
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.

    So we just ignore what Alisson has done the past 3 seasons and focus on Mendy having a better 11 games? Most people didn't even know who Mendy was 15 months ago.
  • SimenHP
    4809 posts Big Money Move
    SimenHP wrote: »
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.

    So we just ignore what Alisson has done the past 3 seasons and focus on Mendy having a better 11 games? Most people didn't even know who Mendy was 15 months ago.

    I have just skipped through the posts here, because I'm not interested in the who has the better team discussion, so I don't know what people are rating them on, but it started on who has the better team this season (I think), so I can't see why anyone would care about past seasons, when that doesn't matter. For example I would say two season ago that DDG was a better gk than Alisson, but at that season Alisson was clearly the better gk, so I would always choose him in my team that season, the same could be said for Mendy this season.
  • Ashy
    17996 posts World Class
    edited November 2021
    SimenHP wrote: »
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.

    So we just ignore what Alisson has done the past 3 seasons and focus on Mendy having a better 11 games? Most people didn't even know who Mendy was 15 months ago.

    But VVD4 is focusing on Tsmikas last 7 games? Mendy has been the better keeper for the whole calender year too
  • Snugglebites
    2719 posts Fans' Favourite
    If it's for this season, fair enough. If not, go see a doctor.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited November 2021
    Ashy wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.

    So we just ignore what Alisson has done the past 3 seasons and focus on Mendy having a better 11 games? Most people didn't even know who Mendy was 15 months ago.

    But VVD4 is focusing on Tsmikas last 7 games? Mendy has been the better keeper for the whole calender year too

    Difference is I’m not saying Tsimikas wins. I had them drawing. Same as Mendy and Alisson. I’m being fair about it all.

    I genuinely think there isn’t anything genuinely controversial in my list, yet some of the other ones have some really dodgy takes, for example, I don’t see why everyone automatically has Chabolah above Phillips? I personally think what Phillips did last season was more impressive than what Chabolah has done this season, but I was still fair and put them equal.

    The whole Lukaku > Firmino thing is silly too. Moving players around just to score some extra points. At least rank them on actual ability level aka our best forward vs their best forward, etc.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    But surely we can now all agree that their squad isn’t better than ours?
  • Shshj
    10170 posts Has That Special Something
    edited November 2021
    Mendy had a good start with us and then dropped off over Christmas. Ever since Tuchel came in he’s been world-class, probably the best GK around based on this season alone.

    I think they’re pretty even, but I also don’t think it’s outrageous to say he’s better than Alisson and vice versa.
  • arsenalap
    11641 posts Has That Special Something
    VVD4 wrote: »
    Ashy wrote: »
    SimenHP wrote: »
    I have no idea how people think Mendy is as good as Alisson.

    Mendy is seen by many as the best goalkeeper in the world this season, while Alisson has been good, he hasn't been on Mendy's level this season. Who's better when they're at their best is a different question altogether.

    So we just ignore what Alisson has done the past 3 seasons and focus on Mendy having a better 11 games? Most people didn't even know who Mendy was 15 months ago.

    But VVD4 is focusing on Tsmikas last 7 games? Mendy has been the better keeper for the whole calender year too

    Difference is I’m not saying Tsimikas wins. I had them drawing. Same as Mendy and Alisson. I’m being fair about it all.

    I genuinely think there isn’t anything genuinely controversial in my list, yet some of the other ones have some really dodgy takes, for example, I don’t see why everyone automatically has Chabolah above Phillips? I personally think what Phillips did last season was more impressive than what Chabolah has done this season, but I was still fair and put them equal.

    The whole Lukaku > Firmino thing is silly too. Moving players around just to score some extra points. At least rank them on actual ability level aka our best forward vs their best forward, etc.

    Rest of your post is fair enough but disagree with this quite a bit.

    Lukaku plays through the middle. Jota/Firmino play through the middle for you. That's the comparison to make imo.

    If I was doing the same thing with Liverpool and Bayern, I wouldn't compare Salah to Lewa, i'd compare him to Gnabry. Equally i'd compare Benzema to Firmino if it was Real vs Liverpool despite Benzema being the best Madrid forward.
  • VVD4
    2792 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited November 2021
    The more I think about it, the more the tactic of putting Lukaku against Firmino is embarrassing.

    Firmino isn’t even our main goal scorer and he’s virtually an attacking midfielder with the role he plays. Yet people are putting him against Lukaku just so Chelsea get one forward in there ahead of ours, lol. It’s sad.

    Firmino vs Havertz is the one that makes the most sense.

    And Salah/Mane vs Lukaku/Werner.
  • arsenalap
    11641 posts Has That Special Something
    VVD4 wrote: »
    But surely we can now all agree that their squad isn’t better than ours?

    Not really, think most people from this said it was..

    But if you're going to include the starting XIs into this then average it out then it'll always be close. The argument was never about starting XIs. It was about squad depth. What's the point including starting XIs when you're discussing squad depth.
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