European Super League & the implications for FIFA

Comments

  • IraqBruin
    2242 posts Fans' Favourite
    DSM1988 wrote: »
    Fifapayne wrote: »

    But if it was just one league..wouldn’t they just stay in that league regardless of were they finish and eventually they can win a title?

    How do you create that one league?

    We've changed lanes a little here as the previous poster who brought up Leicester was referring to the domestic league and the ESL is a proposed continental cup, and shouldn't be called a league (nor should the UCL), but if we pull this thread and say right make English football franchise based like the NFL...

    The Premier League has 20 sides and links to the EFL which has 72, which in turn links to the National League and so on. If the decision had been made 2 years before Leicester won the Premier League that relegation was abolished, the Premier League was the basis for the franchises and all the rest of the clubs can do as they wish - then the Leicester story could never happen.

    You could have one of the poor sides at that point of time who should have been relegated hypothetically go on to win it as you suggest, but it's not quite the same story is it without the promotion winning the Championship, followed by winning 7 out of 10 games or whatever it was at the end of the next season just to stay in the Premier League (games that wouldn't have mattered with no relegation but are some of the most remarkable I've ever seen), followed by winning the title. I know which story sounds better, the one that actually happened!
    EPL:
    Stories do not stop at that though, many of the big teams now were not "big teams" 20 years ago or 10 years ago while others have never won league titles recently or at all. Last year's was Liverpool's first since the inception of the premiership if I am not mistaken.

    My perception is that this is about the CL including small leagues as opposed to more teams from big leagues, these clubs do not want to play non big-5 market clubs.
  • Fifapayne
    7169 posts Big Money Move
    KhansCats wrote: »
    Fifapayne wrote: »

    What rules ?
    You’ve not stated any..
    As far as my knowledge, no rules are changed close to half time or end game.
    (Assuming your talking football and not soccer) but again I don’t see rule changes in either.

    Clock stoppage in the last minutes of the half (NBA) or game (College BB)
    Two minute warning/free time out (NFL)
    Runner starts on 2nd base in extra innings (MLB)

    Just a few examples.

    A similar example to the ESL has been happening in American College sports. The consolidation of the "Power 5" Conferences and their media networks has exacerbated the difference in haves and have nots in terms of money. Personally, I'm a fan of a 'mid-major' and FCS Football program and I've long advocated what the Associations in Europe are talking about now. Kick out the big boys and let them play just each other and see how much fun they really have and how big they remain (a great example is Nebraska moving from the Big 8 to the Big 10 and suddenly becoming the small fish-but hey, they've got money from the network at least).

    This season was basically playing big boys only.. SEC with conference games only..was glorious. Big games every weekend instead of FCS opponents that are down by 50 at half time.

    As for the rules,
    2 min warning has been around for nearly forever and it was made to let the teams know how much time remained in the game as the clock didn’t have the official time.

    MLB rule—is to make the game finish quicker after a tie. They used to have games extended 2+ hours.( don’t watch baseball anyway)

    As for basketball, I’m not familiar..the clock stops when the ball is not in play...and of course the mandatory TV timeouts.
  • Rizzywizzy6786
    395 posts Sunday League Hero
    The only issue I have with the ESL is the lack of relegation/promotion. I mean, let’s face it. This sort of alternative league was inevitable. Money talks.

    Genuinely not sure why there’s so much outrage now from leading sporting figures and politicians on this, yet they didn’t bat an eyelid when Abramovic and the City owners spent hundreds of millions immediately after arriving. Now their fans want sympathy after selling their soul all those years ago?

    Football was gone a long time ago. Teams finishing 3rd and 4th play in the CHAMPIONS League, 3rd placed Champions League group stage teams get rewarded by dropping into the Europa. The majority of European Leagues have a maximum of 2 teams that can win their respective titles.

    I wouldn’t take any notice of Neville and Carra. Won’t be long before they jump ship when they have a shot of earning more money elsewhere.


  • Springveldt
    7120 posts Big Money Move
    Fifapayne wrote: »
    Hibee wrote: »
    Fifapayne wrote: »
    DSM1988 wrote: »
    Fifapayne wrote: »

    How would it be impossible? Did you see who won the super bowl this year?
    Most teams have won a super bowl or made it to the Super Bowl...

    Because 2 seasons before winning the Premier League, Leicester were playing in the Championship. So in a world without promotion and relegation, Leicester would never have got promoted to then win the title in their second season there.

    But if it was just one league..wouldn’t they just stay in that league regardless of were they finish and eventually they can win a title?

    How could you have just 1 league though? Each league in England has over 20 teams. 4 leagues. The whole idea is that smaller teams can dream of doing a Leicester. That’s what football is all about for many fans.

    NBA
    NHL
    MLB
    All have several leagues below them as well.
    Example,baseball
    Player would go

    High school < college < single A< Double A<triple A< MLB
    (In total there is 11 leagues and 120 teams)(not including obviously high school and college)

    And each level has its own fan bases.
    I think the difference is —the baseball players ultimate goal is to play on a TOP MLB team.


    Edit - I think another difference is...
    Everyone grows up rooting for a pro team
    Example, Green Bay packers...or a baseball team from that area Chicago Cubs or something. But they also root for their smaller teams ( a south Hampton or something if you wish) but the athletes mind ...he doesn’t wish that south Hampton can win a super bowl. He dreams to play for Green Bay and win a super bowl...if this makes sense?
    It’s the ultimate achievement
    That's the essential difference though, the athlete in this case can't dream of playing for South Hampton (whoever they are :)) in the NFL simply because they have no way of getting there. He can only dream of playing for the Packers since the NFL is a closed shop, this is totally alien to sports fans in Europe.

    A kid from Merseyside can grow up a Tranmere Rovers fan and dream of playing for them in the Premier League since they have a route to get there. They don't need to dream of playing for Liverpool.

    When I used to play Football Manager I would always have at least one of my saves with me taking Albion Rovers all the way to winning the Champions League.
  • DSM1988
    570 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited April 2021
    IraqBruin wrote: »
    EPL:
    Stories do not stop at that though, many of the big teams now were not "big teams" 20 years ago or 10 years ago while others have never won league titles recently or at all. Last year's was Liverpool's first since the inception of the premiership if I am not mistaken.

    My perception is that this is about the CL including small leagues as opposed to more teams from big leagues, these clubs do not want to play non big-5 market clubs.

    Absolutely, there's loads of stories. My own club Ipswich got promoted to the Premier League, finished 5th, then beat Inter Milan in Europe and got relegated in the next season. I wouldn't want the possibility of that happening again to be taken away.

    But you're right, this is about a UCL replacement not a Premier League replacement, it'll only become the later if no compromise can be found and the clubs are kicked out.
  • Izzy2K17
    14036 posts Has That Special Something
    Leaving this gem here
    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMe9q7e9Q/
  • All4fun1991
    2996 posts National Call-Up
    edited April 2021
    They’re just greedy...I maybe old timer but football died in the early 2000’s...I enjoyed football the most in the 90’s we all wanted to be professional footballers when we were growing up....I’ve been to many football grounds over the years and you just have to look around the stands to understand what football means to generations of families...They want to privatise the game and next would be the players which is already happening with rogue agents.
  • TwoZebras
    6741 posts Big Money Move
    It's kinda funny without the ESL there's like 4-5 teams that probably wouldn't have qualified for this seasons CL

  • TwoZebras
    6741 posts Big Money Move
    Apparently Chelsea are about to withdraw from the super league

    This is crazy
  • WryLucky
    6983 posts Big Money Move
    TwoZebras wrote: »
    Apparently Chelsea are about to withdraw from the super league

    This is crazy

    City too
  • TDOF
    9002 posts League Winner
    Wasn't there a report yesterday saying all "founding members" signed a 23 year deal?

    If they signed a contract i doubt they'll let them out easily.
  • Mrhey31
    3009 posts National Call-Up
    edited April 2021
    Fifapayne wrote: »
    Hibee wrote: »
    It’s no surprise that so many Americans are all for this. They have grown up with the franchise system so it’s perfectly normal to them. If it goes ahead I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of those clubs eventually move city, like they do in America when there is more profit to be made.

    Quite glad that I support a Scottish team so am pretty far removed from it all. We will still have 18k passionate fans watching our home games regardless of what goes on elsewhere. Do see a bit of irony though, with the amount of English fans calling the likes of Scotland tinpot etc, because we don’t have the sky tv money. The arrival of the EPL created a crazy amount of snobbery, especially among younger fans who know no different. Looks like many of you may also be watching a second fiddle league in the future.
    Was going to say the same, this thread it seems to be American's who are all for this as it's what they are used to.

    If it does go ahead I think they will eventually give a tiny slither of the pie (maybe the crust with no filling) to the domestic leagues and FIFA/EUFA to keep them happy. I hope not though, I hope the domestic leagues kick them out and leave them to play with themselves. Let's see how interested people are when it's December and you have AC Milan vs Spurs for 12th place and no domestic cups/rivalries to look forward to. For a lot of the founder clubs their season will essentially be over by November.

    Can't wait till the first "franchise" decides that those "legacy fans" are no longer important and decide to move to a new city with a better climate to attract better players, that'll be fun.

    You act like American teams move cities all the time?

    Maybe because they do. Just counted the moves of the highest pro teams in the USA. 65 moves! So yeah they move a lot.

    Let me say that in a way you understand: I can not name any ANY team in Europe that has moved their club to a different city or country...... not 1
  • DSM1988
    570 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited April 2021
    I believe they signed memorandums of understanding, or something of that nature, not a contract.
  • TwoZebras
    6741 posts Big Money Move
    Hahahaha lasted two days
  • IraqBruin
    2242 posts Fans' Favourite
    KhansCats wrote: »
    Fifapayne wrote: »

    What rules ?
    You’ve not stated any..
    As far as my knowledge, no rules are changed close to half time or end game.
    (Assuming your talking football and not soccer) but again I don’t see rule changes in either.

    Clock stoppage in the last minutes of the half (NBA) or game (College BB)
    Two minute warning/free time out (NFL)
    Runner starts on 2nd base in extra innings (MLB)

    Just a few examples.
    The clock management inside two minutes in the NFL is different, you stop the clock by stepping out inside the two minute but the clock restarts if outside it. It prolongs the two minutes ( in real time) and generates the comeback stories that would never happen if stepping out of bounds did not act like a time out in terms of stopping the clock from running, that is manufactured drama.

    Different rules for off the ball fouls in the NBA depending on the time.

    I do not remember the exact detail since it is an ugly sport to me but I think in MLB baseball the setup for outfielders changes in the late innings (but I could be wrong)
  • TDOF
    9002 posts League Winner
    DSM1988 wrote: »
    I believe they signed memorandums of understanding, or something of that nature, not a contract.
    TDOF wrote: »
    Wasn't there a report yesterday saying all "founding members" signed a 23 year deal?

    If they signed a contract i doubt they'll let them out easily.

    well atletico owners saying perez lied and they didnt sign anything lol
  • DSM1988
    570 posts An Exciting Prospect
    TDOF wrote: »

    well atletico owners saying perez lied and they didnt sign anything lol

    Wouldn't be like him, would it? Ha
  • IraqBruin
    2242 posts Fans' Favourite
    DSM1988 wrote: »
    IraqBruin wrote: »
    EPL:
    Stories do not stop at that though, many of the big teams now were not "big teams" 20 years ago or 10 years ago while others have never won league titles recently or at all. Last year's was Liverpool's first since the inception of the premiership if I am not mistaken.

    My perception is that this is about the CL including small leagues as opposed to more teams from big leagues, these clubs do not want to play non big-5 market clubs.

    Absolutely, there's loads of stories. My own club Ipswich got promoted to the Premier League, finished 5th, then beat Inter Milan in Europe and got relegated in the next season. I wouldn't want the possibility of that happening again to be taken away.

    But you're right, this is about a UCL replacement not a Premier League replacement, it'll only become the later if no compromise can be found and the clubs are kicked out.
    You can talk about Manchester United without SAF (if you include their 1974 relegation after Busby) if you want or Arsenal before Graham and After Wenger as far as the league is concerned.

    The travesty of the whole situation is the johnny come lately attitude (or recency bias) towards sports in general and football in particular, fans are not just fans because of winning
  • bullettoot
    702 posts Semi-Pro
    People understand one thing, the government, the courts, Uefa, Fifa. All want to make an example out of the Superleague, they don’t care about you, about me, about football, small or big clubs. If the Superleague branches out, that means that all of us at one point will want to branch out and not abide to laws, rules etc. This is taking power from institutions and cutting them out. Didn’t Fifa and Uefa have strict policies that Governments shouldn’t meddle in football operations. Why the sudden change of heart. This isn’t a bad thing. I really hope they succeed.
  • Boffa
    1704 posts Play-Off Hero
    Finally it's over for now.
    But imo there has to be some concequences for the clubs that made this mess.
  • truegunn3r
    13726 posts World Class
    edited April 2021
    Ben wrote: »
    truegunn3r wrote: »
    Ben wrote: »
    truegunn3r wrote: »
    If it happens, no more football for me. This is the EPL and not the NBA

    It’s already happened,,,,no backing out now.
    No it hasn’t. Signing on a piece of paper means nothing. The bans and implications set by UEFA and the FA are quite imposing

    What do you mean signing means nothing? Do you know what a contract is?
    What you saying now mate? Signing a piece of paper means nothing. If you want to get out you get out
  • IraqBruin
    2242 posts Fans' Favourite
    TDOF wrote: »
    DSM1988 wrote: »
    I believe they signed memorandums of understanding, or something of that nature, not a contract.
    TDOF wrote: »
    Wasn't there a report yesterday saying all "founding members" signed a 23 year deal?

    If they signed a contract i doubt they'll let them out easily.

    well atletico owners saying perez lied and they didnt sign anything lol
    Any word from Perez (Real Madrid) and the Italians ?
    It always has been their idea from the get go if I am not misconceiving.
  • TwoZebras
    6741 posts Big Money Move
    So happy right now!

    Love that everyone in Europe united to protest this

    Even became a fan of Boris for a couple of minutes
  • BFC CLARETTRICK
    1283 posts Professional
    Football just sucks as a whole now football clubs sold out to foreign owners who run our clubs as just a business and owners that don't actually care about football at all this super league proposal has proven that once and for all.

    I feel like there's way too much money going around in the sport and football won't recover from this and the so called "big 6" can get stuffed from now on they may pull out of this super league but they've shown their full intention that they only care about money and people won't forget it either.

    Football needs to fold and restart from scratch with clubs fully owned by the fans with full transfer caps at all times, wage caps etc lessons need to be learnt from all this never trust a business man with lots of money.

  • FifaTraderNM
    258 posts Sunday League Hero
    I am for the super league. Would be a change of scenery. Greed has always been there. I think they knew it wouldnt pass. This is some sort of distraction or bluf. They made UEFA make some changes and are probably going to get more money now. I also think this was just testing the water and the real push might come later in a few years.
  • truegunn3r
    13726 posts World Class
    edited April 2021
    Ex-players, governments, associations and especially FANS made this possible and beat these money hungry owners. This could start something new. Maybe the Glazers, Kroenke’s, Sheikhs and all other sugar daddy’s might start selling up knowing there’s not much more they can get out of football.
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