Discussion - How is Lag Compensation Not Handicapping?

AngryHawk
294 posts Sunday League Hero
This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

Comments

  • CFCHenri
    4099 posts National Call-Up
    It ruins gameplay and I don’t see why this issue isn’t talked about a bit more. So evident in friendlies when both teams have the same exact players in positions and chem styles, yet mine feels slow and sluggish in transition to any action after switching to them.

    Have to cap my download speed on my router to experience decent to good gameplay after that painful gameplay experience
  • AngryHawk
    294 posts Sunday League Hero
    I know there's a lot of European players that don't know what I'm talking about, but if you guys had to play one WL in North America you'd probably be asking why we're even playing this game, it's that bad.
  • Theomanny
    2356 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited February 27
    AngryHawk wrote: »
    This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

    How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

    I disagree with the point where why would people play with 4g.

    Most 4g are better and sometimes more stable than a loaded household BB.

    I Play on 4g ee Uk and u can get 20mb-40mb in different locations. Most 4g players just connect wired straight to their ps4. Yes gameplay is not perfect but manageable most times if u play between 8pm-1am or early mornings.

    Get somewhat better gameplay than my super fast fibre loaded with family gadgets and all. Even when less busy still ❤️❤️❤️❤️.
  • AngryHawk
    294 posts Sunday League Hero
    Theomanny wrote: »
    AngryHawk wrote: »
    This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

    How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

    I disagree with the point where why would people play with 4g.

    Most 4g are better and sometimes more stable than a loaded household BB.

    I Play on 4g ee Uk and u can get 20mb-40mb in different locations. Most 4g players just connect wired straight to their ps4. Yes gameplay is not perfect but manageable most times if u play between 8pm-1am or early mornings.

    Get somewhat better gameplay than my super fast fibre loaded with family gadgets and all. Even when less busy still ❤️❤️❤️❤️.

    I feel like you're contradicting your statement. I agree sometimes a dedicated a line can be better than a family connection if you have 5 ppl streaming at the same time, however even if that many things going on a 4g connection should never outduel a Fiber connection. Plus this is the only game this happens on (at least I haven't heard of it happening on others)
  • TDOF
    7105 posts Big Money Move
    I’ve mentioned this in my thread that i made a while back on it

    There should be a way that matchmaking only matches you against people with the same internet connectivity

    4G plays only against 4G
    WiFi plays only against WiFi
    Ethernet plays only against Ethernet

    It wouldn’t fix it fully, but it would decrease it against most opponents
  • Cosmic99
    575 posts An Exciting Prospect
    My console is wired to a 4g dedicated router and has a better ping than a landline in my area which is fibre to the exchange then copper to individual households, my ping is normally around 30ms and doesn't really change no matter what time of day it is.
    The 4g you are on about is used for the disconnect glitch where people will run it off their phone. That's a completely separate issue.

    Outside of major cities the UK infrastructure is really poor, I'd imagine the US is the same if not worse add to this kids playing on wifi and there's a lot of variables to take into account.

    No one outside of EA knows exactly how they run their network but they do use some of the best servers available....I sound like an EA apologist which I'm definitely not but the point I'm trying to make is it's not as black and white as you might think.
  • Damo_Suzuki
    2578 posts Fans' Favourite
    Yes it is handicapping, one player gets a massive advantage and the best player doesn't win.

    Completely ruins fifa if you want to play competitively or just challenge yourself and renders the whole thing a pointless card collecting game as the card stats aren't relevant to how they will perform in game consistently.
  • TDOF
    7105 posts Big Money Move
    Cosmic99 wrote: »
    My console is wired to a 4g dedicated router and has a better ping than a landline in my area which is fibre to the exchange then copper to individual households, my ping is normally around 30ms and doesn't really change no matter what time of day it is.
    The 4g you are on about is used for the disconnect glitch where people will run it off their phone. That's a completely separate issue.

    Outside of major cities the UK infrastructure is really poor, I'd imagine the US is the same if not worse add to this kids playing on wifi and there's a lot of variables to take into account.

    No one outside of EA knows exactly how they run their network but they do use some of the best servers available....I sound like an EA apologist which I'm definitely not but the point I'm trying to make is it's not as black and white as you might think.

    The servers they use are Amazon servers which are 30 tick rate servers....

    There are games that have 120 tick rate servers which would change a lot. @Cosmic99
  • Some people claim that good connection gives an advantage and refuse to accept bad ping matches in WL.

    Some people claim that bad connection gives an advantage and that high ping is the way to go.

    You can't have both kids.
  • D0lvl
    3968 posts National Call-Up


    It’s just a way to even the playing field by giving the inferior Internet connection players a chance.

    Like @TDOF said, just make the option to only match “like connection” available to us North American players.



  • Noo
    1880 posts Fans' Favourite
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.
  • WomboCombo
    484 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited February 27
    Theomanny wrote: »
    AngryHawk wrote: »
    This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

    How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

    I disagree with the point where why would people play with 4g.

    Most 4g are better and sometimes more stable than a loaded household BB.

    I Play on 4g ee Uk and u can get 20mb-40mb in different locations. Most 4g players just connect wired straight to their ps4. Yes gameplay is not perfect but manageable most times if u play between 8pm-1am or early mornings.

    Get somewhat better gameplay than my super fast fibre loaded with family gadgets and all. Even when less busy still ❤️❤️❤️❤️.


    Almost nobody in the world has internet as slow as 20mb-40mb lmao, that's like airport wifi? What an insane statement, seriously, just stop and read that utter bullcrap, "Most 4g are better and more stable than household BB" LOL, no, not even close??? Most household BB is at least 100 mb, and that's considered a very slow speed, many many are on 500 mb - 1000 mb, in fact that range is becoming the standard in many developed countries like the US, Korea, most of Europe, etc.

    So no your crappy 20mb 4g is not even comparable to 90% of houses with BB even if 5 people are streaming to twitch and gaming online at the same time.

    Just really an absurd thing to say, and yes I know speed and delay are different things, but household BB should get lower ping the vast majority of the time. obviously there's always exceptions, but "most" people aren't exceptions
  • Cosmic99
    575 posts An Exciting Prospect
    WomboCombo wrote: »
    Theomanny wrote: »
    AngryHawk wrote: »
    This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

    How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

    I disagree with the point where why would people play with 4g.

    Most 4g are better and sometimes more stable than a loaded household BB.

    I Play on 4g ee Uk and u can get 20mb-40mb in different locations. Most 4g players just connect wired straight to their ps4. Yes gameplay is not perfect but manageable most times if u play between 8pm-1am or early mornings.

    Get somewhat better gameplay than my super fast fibre loaded with family gadgets and all. Even when less busy still ❤️❤️❤️❤️.


    Almost nobody in the world has internet as slow as 20mb-40mb lmao, that's like airport wifi? What an insane statement, seriously, just stop and read that utter bullcrap, "Most 4g are better and more stable than household BB" LOL, no, not even close??? Most household BB is at least 100 mb, and that's considered a very slow speed, many many are on 500 mb - 1000 mb, in fact that range is becoming the standard in many developed countries like the US, Korea, most of Europe, etc.

    So no your crappy 20mb 4g is not even comparable to 90% of houses with BB even if 5 people are streaming to twitch and gaming online at the same time.

    Just really an absurd thing to say, and yes I know speed and delay are different things, but household BB should get lower ping the vast majority of the time. obviously there's always exceptions, but "most" people aren't exceptions

    You do realise the speed is almost irrelevant don't you? Ping and jitter are far more important
  • WomboCombo
    484 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited February 27
    Cosmic99 wrote:
    You do realise the speed is almost irrelevant don't you? Ping and jitter are far more important
    Just really an absurd thing to say, and yes I know speed and delay are different things, but household BB should get lower ping the vast majority of the time. obviously there's always exceptions, but "most" people aren't exceptions

    I don't know, do I?

    Now the fun part: Are you going to sit there and say most 4g networks outperform the latency of most high speed household internets? Because that is hilariously false.

    Seriously, you guys are bordering psychotic here. No, 4g is in no way comparable to high speed fiber internets, not in speed, not in latency, just no. My ping is 21 MS and 20 ms is very average for fiber connections. Your 30ms 4g is fine for what it does and I'm sure its more than good enough for Fifa but no its not better than most home broadband lmao
  • IraqBruin
    1621 posts Play-Off Hero
    Noo wrote: »
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.
    I do not know how it works but my understanding is this:

    Good X
    Better Y

    Can not improve X but can throttle Y to X somehow.

    Of course I do not know what I am talking about but that is how I understood these things every time I read them, and I do not know what X and Y values would mean anyway.
  • Theomanny
    2356 posts Fans' Favourite
    WomboCombo wrote: »
    Theomanny wrote: »
    AngryHawk wrote: »
    This isn't a thread to say each game is decided before kickoff, this is civilized discussion regarding lag compensation. There's been numerous discussions regarding poor connection players getting an advantage, why else would some users decide to play on 4g?

    How is this not handicapping or balancing? This allows lower tier teams/players to sometimes get an advantage against the better skilled player with the better connection.

    I disagree with the point where why would people play with 4g.

    Most 4g are better and sometimes more stable than a loaded household BB.

    I Play on 4g ee Uk and u can get 20mb-40mb in different locations. Most 4g players just connect wired straight to their ps4. Yes gameplay is not perfect but manageable most times if u play between 8pm-1am or early mornings.

    Get somewhat better gameplay than my super fast fibre loaded with family gadgets and all. Even when less busy still ❤️❤️❤️❤️.


    Almost nobody in the world has internet as slow as 20mb-40mb lmao, that's like airport wifi? What an insane statement, seriously, just stop and read that utter bullcrap, "Most 4g are better and more stable than household BB" LOL, no, not even close??? Most household BB is at least 100 mb, and that's considered a very slow speed, many many are on 500 mb - 1000 mb, in fact that range is becoming the standard in many developed countries like the US, Korea, most of Europe, etc.

    So no your crappy 20mb 4g is not even comparable to 90% of houses with BB even if 5 people are streaming to twitch and gaming online at the same time.

    Just really an absurd thing to say, and yes I know speed and delay are different things, but household BB should get lower ping the vast majority of the time. obviously there's always exceptions, but "most" people aren't exceptions

    U r the clueless one mate. Most Uk bb and network are way slower than u think. Most people are still on low speed in thw uk due to bb infrastructure.

    And gaming is not always about how fast ir network is lol. Fifa doesn’t need massive speed. U can play fifa on 1mb upload and download mate 😂
  • CFCHenri
    4099 posts National Call-Up
    Noo wrote: »
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.

    It means the first. Lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay matching the poorer connections but the experience isn’t the same. For instance, a poor connection might get 30ms to the server, my good connection is 14ms, now my 14ms connection to the dedicated server during a game will mimic that of the poorer connection so it becomes like 30ms now but it tells me it’s still 14ms. That’s the most simple way I can explain it.
  • CFCHenri
    4099 posts National Call-Up
    edited February 27
    I remember facing an opponent from Mexico, router says I’m pinging to the Mexico server (live in Virginia) with over 80ms ping but I still decided to play the match. I was surprised I got matched up with someone there. His gameplay experience was utterly poor, mine wasn’t the best but I won all 50/50s, auto-tackles from my CPU AI were on-point, I could turn without hassle I mean his players were struggling to control the ball. He quit after 3-0, 2 headers from Lautaro that entered me into D1 in October. I thought he was bad, just a tad bit higher skill rating.
  • Enzfut
    343 posts Sunday League Hero
    Why is it that other online games which require quick reaction time have sussed it out but not EA with FIFA?
  • TwoZebras
    6665 posts Big Money Move
    TDOF wrote: »
    I’ve mentioned this in my thread that i made a while back on it

    There should be a way that matchmaking only matches you against people with the same internet connectivity

    4G plays only against 4G
    WiFi plays only against WiFi
    Ethernet plays only against Ethernet

    It wouldn’t fix it fully, but it would decrease it against most opponents

    This would make sense, but EA would never go for it
  • Cosmic99
    575 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited February 27
    Enzfut wrote: »
    Why is it that other online games which require quick reaction time have sussed it out but not EA with FIFA?

    That's the $1.15bn dollar question
  • Noo
    1880 posts Fans' Favourite
    CFCHenri wrote: »
    Noo wrote: »
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.

    It means the first. Lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay matching the poorer connections but the experience isn’t the same. For instance, a poor connection might get 30ms to the server, my good connection is 14ms, now my 14ms connection to the dedicated server during a game will mimic that of the poorer connection so it becomes like 30ms now but it tells me it’s still 14ms. That’s the most simple way I can explain it.

    Thanks for answering. Most people just like to throw claims about and not actually pad them out with detail. Makes it easier to just blame the game. Or just don't know what they are talking about.


    So in your example you would likely be getting equal responsiveness to your opponent, but this is worse responsiveness thank you are used to if you match a connection equal to yours? Right?
  • CFCHenri
    4099 posts National Call-Up
    Noo wrote: »
    CFCHenri wrote: »
    Noo wrote: »
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.

    It means the first. Lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay matching the poorer connections but the experience isn’t the same. For instance, a poor connection might get 30ms to the server, my good connection is 14ms, now my 14ms connection to the dedicated server during a game will mimic that of the poorer connection so it becomes like 30ms now but it tells me it’s still 14ms. That’s the most simple way I can explain it.

    Thanks for answering. Most people just like to throw claims about and not actually pad them out with detail. Makes it easier to just blame the game. Or just don't know what they are talking about.


    So in your example you would likely be getting equal responsiveness to your opponent, but this is worse responsiveness thank you are used to if you match a connection equal to yours? Right?
    Yes, exactly that.
  • Vezzo
    1370 posts Professional
    Inb4 they close the thread and warn you.

    Ontopic - I agree with you completely.
  • BigH82
    630 posts An Exciting Prospect
    When they sort this can they input software to detect when someone has been div one for two months then as if by magic there div 5 or 6 banging out objectives
  • Noo
    1880 posts Fans' Favourite
    CFCHenri wrote: »
    Noo wrote: »
    CFCHenri wrote: »
    Noo wrote: »
    I've asking this question before on threads on this topic and haven't received an answer.

    Are you saying that lag compensation means that player with the better connection gets poorer gameplay responsiveness than their opponent, who is using a poor connection?

    Or

    Are you saying that lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay than they are used to, matching the poorer connections responsiveness, and therefore both players get similar (or same) responsiveness?

    Or

    Something else.

    It means the first. Lag compensation results in the player with better connection having poorer gameplay matching the poorer connections but the experience isn’t the same. For instance, a poor connection might get 30ms to the server, my good connection is 14ms, now my 14ms connection to the dedicated server during a game will mimic that of the poorer connection so it becomes like 30ms now but it tells me it’s still 14ms. That’s the most simple way I can explain it.

    Thanks for answering. Most people just like to throw claims about and not actually pad them out with detail. Makes it easier to just blame the game. Or just don't know what they are talking about.


    So in your example you would likely be getting equal responsiveness to your opponent, but this is worse responsiveness thank you are used to if you match a connection equal to yours? Right?
    Yes, exactly that.

    So your never at an actual disadvantage compared to your opponent in terms of responsiveness. Just that you haven't got it as smooth as you're used to.

    The difficulty I have with this thread is it makes out like having poor connection is an advantage. Seems counterintuitive and doesn't match my experience. Also if it was true then people would abuse it as the META which also isn't the case.

    I'm unconvinced.
  • RadioShaq
    17576 posts Moderator
    Closing this as it’s getting into handicap and moderation with a reminder of the rules.

    Don't discuss Scripting, Handicap, Momentum, Dynamic Difficult Adjustment or similar. The FIFA team have confirmed these don't exist on numerous occasions. Discussions around these topics or anything similar such as RNG are never productive and will be removed.
This discussion has been closed.