He hasn't been any better than the other wingers though, he's had end product, but even then Sterling has had less game time, and Rashford has had equal end product in what I assume has been less game time.
He's been comfortably better than Grealish, that's it.
If he was a Chelsea player there's no way you'd be backing him like you are doing.
He's had a good knack of getting the ball in the net and that's a credit to him, it's important, especially in international football, but it doesn't mean he's been good.
I literally just defended Kane in the England thread and have throughout the tournament, who trust me I hate far more than even Mount.
If you asked England fans most would say Saka has had a decent tournament so far.
If Bellingham and Kane play as well as they did today then we can trouble France. The former in particular is having a breakout tournament, that’s two clinics he’s put on against Iran and Senegal now.
I’d like to see a little more from Foden. He’s contributing to goals which is great but I also think the game can pass him by, someone with his talent can easily have an effect similar to Bellingham.
Win on Saturday and the country will lose its collective mind again. Come on.
If Bellingham and Kane play as well as they did today then we can trouble France. The former in particular is having a breakout tournament, that’s two clinics he’s put on against Iran and Senegal now.
I’d like to see a little more from Foden. He’s contributing to goals which is great but I also think the game can pass him by, someone with his talent can easily have an effect similar to Bellingham.
Win on Saturday and the country will lose its collective mind again. Come on.
Don’t believe we will play the same against France. Let’s be honest if giroud griezzman or mbappe gets that chance Pickford saved them it’s a goal.
Tonight proved even more all the stupid calls for switches in the wide positions and midfield and defence don’t make a difference.
Saka grealish rashford foden are all very similar level
Pickford pope and ramsdale too.
Imo the only guranteed starters are Kane rice Bellingham and shaw
Anyone else doesn’t matter as ling as they see game time
So if we lose I don’t want to see any nonsense about it x person should have started etc
Southgate doing what Southgate does: beating the teams we’re better than. Good to see
We’re definitely underdogs vs France but I think there is a chance we beat them. Won’t be gutted if we lose as it’s expected but as long as we play well I’d say it’s been a decent tournament for us. No shame in losing to the World Champions and the favourites for this tournament
If we sit back and let France do their thing and lose I'll be annoyed and Southgate out, because once again once we come up against a bigger nation we curl up into a ball and let them beat us.
If we take it to them and give them a good game and lose to the better side, Mbappe turns up etc then it is what it is.
If we sit back and let France do their thing and lose I'll be annoyed and Southgate out, because once again once we come up against a bigger nation we curl up into a ball and let them beat us.
If we take it to them and give them a good game and lose to the better side, Mbappe turns up etc then it is what it is.
If we go for it and lose 3-0 people will be annoyed too
If we sit back and let France do their thing and lose I'll be annoyed and Southgate out, because once again once we come up against a bigger nation we curl up into a ball and let them beat us.
If we take it to them and give them a good game and lose to the better side, Mbappe turns up etc then it is what it is.
If we go for it and lose 3-0 people will be annoyed too
I’m genuinely so surprised that people have such an issue with our style of play. I’ve never known us to play good football under any manager
I just want to be competitive for once, we normally get completely outplayed.
When did we last get completely outplayed? In tournament football I mean
Italy in the euros, I think we had 1 attempt on target in that game. And Croatia where we had two shots on targets with one of those being a freekick.
Ironically, the exact same thing happened. We scored early and attempted to park the bus in both games. And that Croatia team was aging and went to extra time in almost all their games yet still showed more than us.
Southgate out awfully quiet right now. Will be loud once we lose to France though.
Been away boys what’s the crack
Do you expect people to be complaining after a 3-0 win and a good performance. The way we play against France will obviously change peoples minds. If we just sit off the entire game dont counter attack and deservedly lose then I will happily be saying Southgate out again. Losing to France isnt an issue they are a great team if I see us play with fear again then I will say Southgate out.
Imagine if this was TAA getting beat over and over again.
Might as well play him as he has attacking threat.
Agreed @VVD4 people watch Trent with a microscope and when he does even a tiny defensive mistake you'll hear that Trent is awful at defending, being brainless is really easy.
Southgate out awfully quiet right now. Will be loud once we lose to France though.
Been away boys what’s the crack
Do you expect people to be complaining after a 3-0 win and a good performance. The way we play against France will obviously change peoples minds. If we just sit off the entire game dont counter attack and deservedly lose then I will happily be saying Southgate out again. Losing to France isnt an issue they are a great team if I see us play with fear again then I will say Southgate out.
Well that’s the issue is that you can’t just be flakey after every performance if we do well you don’t complain and if we don’t you do. Be consistent. The guys only lost two tournament games and those were against good teams in late stages. We had one draw against a decent US team in the group stage and everyone was on his back
I just want to be competitive for once, we normally get completely outplayed.
When did we last get completely outplayed? In tournament football I mean
Italy in the euros, I think we had 1 attempt on target in that game. And Croatia where we had two shots on targets with one of those being a freekick.
Ironically, the exact same thing happened. We scored early and attempted to park the bus in both games. And that Croatia team was aging and went to extra time in almost all their games yet still showed more than us.
I wouldn’t say we got outplayed against Italy personally. We scored, tried to grind out the result by playing defensive football and ultimately lost on pens. Teams searching for an equaliser will often start dominating the game but I wouldn’t say that means they were outplaying them. I hope we don’t go to park the bus until closer to the end of the game this time though. A late goal for us could be the best thing for us
I wouldn’t say we got outplayed against Italy personally. We scored, tried to grind out the result by playing defensive football and ultimately lost on pens. Teams searching for an equaliser will often start dominating the game but I wouldn’t say that means they were outplaying them. I hope we don’t go to park the bus until closer to the end of the game this time though. A late goal for us could be the best thing for us
You had four shots in total over the course of two hours of football. Literally half an hour between shots. There's going defensive and then there's giving up and parking the bus, especially against a historically defensive team.
Craziest thing in that final that sticks out to me is that MARCO VERRATI wins a header at the back post in the lead up to the goal. The man's 5ft nothing.
I wouldn’t say we got outplayed against Italy personally. We scored, tried to grind out the result by playing defensive football and ultimately lost on pens. Teams searching for an equaliser will often start dominating the game but I wouldn’t say that means they were outplaying them. I hope we don’t go to park the bus until closer to the end of the game this time though. A late goal for us could be the best thing for us
You had four shots in total over the course of two hours of football. Literally half an hour between shots. There's going defensive and then there's giving up and parking the bus, especially against a historic defensive team.
That doesn't equate to being outplayed, though. It was a deliberate tactic that would have been championed if we won the penalty shootout.
Similar to Real Madrid parking the bus against Liverpool in the CL final. We "outplayed" them and destroyed them on xG, but all the plaudits went to Real Madrid for their game-plan. Did we outplay them or did Real Madrid actually outplay us?
If we had won that game, they would have been criticised for it, rather than celebrated, so it is a very fine line and very fickle.
If Kane had passed instead of shooting against Croatia and Saka scored his penalty against Italy, the narrative would be extremely different and Southgate would have a reputation for winning things ugly, but still winning things, which a lot of top managers have been celebrated for in the past (Simone, Conte, Ancelotti, Mourinho, etc).
Mourinho's CL win with Inter is deemed a masterclass, but he did exactly what everyone is criticising Southgate for. The only difference is the Inter players scored that one chance they needed, whereas we fumbled. That's not really on the manager, it is on the players. (and a bit of luck).
I can’t see GS changing from the 433 at this point but would anyone play a 343 instead because of Mbappe? Not only trying to defend him with two people but also take advantage of him never tracking back.
Poland had all kinds of space because he walks back. Imagine what TAA and Saka could do constantly having room on the right with only one defender between them.
Southgate out awfully quiet right now. Will be loud once we lose to France though.
Been away boys what’s the crack
Do you expect people to be complaining after a 3-0 win and a good performance. The way we play against France will obviously change peoples minds. If we just sit off the entire game dont counter attack and deservedly lose then I will happily be saying Southgate out again. Losing to France isnt an issue they are a great team if I see us play with fear again then I will say Southgate out.
Well that’s the issue is that you can’t just be flakey after every performance if we do well you don’t complain and if we don’t you do. Be consistent. The guys only lost two tournament games and those were against good teams in late stages. We had one draw against a decent US team in the group stage and everyone was on his back
It's not being flaky looking at the bigger picture. I think we have played well for the most part in this tournament. If we show we haven't learnt anything when we play France what's the point. This doesn't mean win the game it means don't lose the exact same way we have been. If we don't i think it's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy.
Southgate out awfully quiet right now. Will be loud once we lose to France though.
Been away boys what’s the crack
Do you expect people to be complaining after a 3-0 win and a good performance. The way we play against France will obviously change peoples minds. If we just sit off the entire game dont counter attack and deservedly lose then I will happily be saying Southgate out again. Losing to France isnt an issue they are a great team if I see us play with fear again then I will say Southgate out.
Well that’s the issue is that you can’t just be flakey after every performance if we do well you don’t complain and if we don’t you do. Be consistent. The guys only lost two tournament games and those were against good teams in late stages. We had one draw against a decent US team in the group stage and everyone was on his back
It's not being flaky looking at the bigger picture. I think we have played well for the most part in this tournament. If we show we haven't learnt anything when we play France what's the point. This doesn't mean win the game it means don't lose the exact same way we have been. If we don't i think it's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy.
So what happens if we attack France/play like we have been playing and get smashed 3-0 as a result?
100% we will get people saying that we should have played a more conservative way to maximise our chances of progressing to the next round and that Southgate was naive to think we could win by playing good football.
Realistically speaking, our best hope of progression is to Mourinho the game. That doesn’t guarantee it will work, but it certainly improves our chances.
The Italians were absolutely shook in the opening twenty minutes then you downed tools and stopped trying to get a second. Outplayed or not, it was a weird tactic to implement so sudden.
I will be pissed if we change to a 3atb given how well the 433 has served us. I don't think I've ever seen us attack well using that formation and all it does is invite extra pressure and inevitably more chances to the opposition.
I'd like to think Southgate has learned from the euros. It's all well and good setting up defensively but you still need to carry some attacking threat and can't just spend the entire game camped in your half, you're going to concede.
I don't think France are that much better than us, we can attack them and win the game. Mbappe is not a god. Midfield wise, I think we're better. Front 3 is not much worse and our defence is more reliable than there's even if they have better individuals.
I think it all depends on who the options are, going out to France would continue the theme of doing what is expected and nothing more.
Southgate atleast has the players in good spirits etc, he's basically OGS at this point, there never feels much there tactically but he's clearly got the squad harmony going well.
If quality managers like Poch and Tuchel want the job you absolutely give it to them over Southgate should he lose to France, if it's only the usual terrible international manager candidates, then who knows if there's even any point in changing.
Rated E For Everyone.
Comments
I literally just defended Kane in the England thread and have throughout the tournament, who trust me I hate far more than even Mount.
If you asked England fans most would say Saka has had a decent tournament so far.
Been away boys what’s the crack
I’d like to see a little more from Foden. He’s contributing to goals which is great but I also think the game can pass him by, someone with his talent can easily have an effect similar to Bellingham.
Win on Saturday and the country will lose its collective mind again. Come on.
Don’t believe we will play the same against France. Let’s be honest if giroud griezzman or mbappe gets that chance Pickford saved them it’s a goal.
Tonight proved even more all the stupid calls for switches in the wide positions and midfield and defence don’t make a difference.
Saka grealish rashford foden are all very similar level
Pickford pope and ramsdale too.
Imo the only guranteed starters are Kane rice Bellingham and shaw
Anyone else doesn’t matter as ling as they see game time
So if we lose I don’t want to see any nonsense about it x person should have started etc
We’re definitely underdogs vs France but I think there is a chance we beat them. Won’t be gutted if we lose as it’s expected but as long as we play well I’d say it’s been a decent tournament for us. No shame in losing to the World Champions and the favourites for this tournament
If we take it to them and give them a good game and lose to the better side, Mbappe turns up etc then it is what it is.
If we go for it and lose 3-0 people will be annoyed too
I’m genuinely so surprised that people have such an issue with our style of play. I’ve never known us to play good football under any manager
When did we last get completely outplayed? In tournament football I mean
Italy in the euros, I think we had 1 attempt on target in that game. And Croatia where we had two shots on targets with one of those being a freekick.
Ironically, the exact same thing happened. We scored early and attempted to park the bus in both games. And that Croatia team was aging and went to extra time in almost all their games yet still showed more than us.
Do you expect people to be complaining after a 3-0 win and a good performance. The way we play against France will obviously change peoples minds. If we just sit off the entire game dont counter attack and deservedly lose then I will happily be saying Southgate out again. Losing to France isnt an issue they are a great team if I see us play with fear again then I will say Southgate out.
Agreed @VVD4 people watch Trent with a microscope and when he does even a tiny defensive mistake you'll hear that Trent is awful at defending, being brainless is really easy.
Well that’s the issue is that you can’t just be flakey after every performance if we do well you don’t complain and if we don’t you do. Be consistent. The guys only lost two tournament games and those were against good teams in late stages. We had one draw against a decent US team in the group stage and everyone was on his back
I wouldn’t say we got outplayed against Italy personally. We scored, tried to grind out the result by playing defensive football and ultimately lost on pens. Teams searching for an equaliser will often start dominating the game but I wouldn’t say that means they were outplaying them. I hope we don’t go to park the bus until closer to the end of the game this time though. A late goal for us could be the best thing for us
Craziest thing in that final that sticks out to me is that MARCO VERRATI wins a header at the back post in the lead up to the goal. The man's 5ft nothing.
That doesn't equate to being outplayed, though. It was a deliberate tactic that would have been championed if we won the penalty shootout.
Similar to Real Madrid parking the bus against Liverpool in the CL final. We "outplayed" them and destroyed them on xG, but all the plaudits went to Real Madrid for their game-plan. Did we outplay them or did Real Madrid actually outplay us?
If we had won that game, they would have been criticised for it, rather than celebrated, so it is a very fine line and very fickle.
If Kane had passed instead of shooting against Croatia and Saka scored his penalty against Italy, the narrative would be extremely different and Southgate would have a reputation for winning things ugly, but still winning things, which a lot of top managers have been celebrated for in the past (Simone, Conte, Ancelotti, Mourinho, etc).
Mourinho's CL win with Inter is deemed a masterclass, but he did exactly what everyone is criticising Southgate for. The only difference is the Inter players scored that one chance they needed, whereas we fumbled. That's not really on the manager, it is on the players. (and a bit of luck).
Poland had all kinds of space because he walks back. Imagine what TAA and Saka could do constantly having room on the right with only one defender between them.
Walker as RCB to cover Mbappe with TAA.
I know. But he should for the attack.
> I know. But he should for the attack.
against mbappe?
It's not being flaky looking at the bigger picture. I think we have played well for the most part in this tournament. If we show we haven't learnt anything when we play France what's the point. This doesn't mean win the game it means don't lose the exact same way we have been. If we don't i think it's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy.
So what happens if we attack France/play like we have been playing and get smashed 3-0 as a result?
100% we will get people saying that we should have played a more conservative way to maximise our chances of progressing to the next round and that Southgate was naive to think we could win by playing good football.
Realistically speaking, our best hope of progression is to Mourinho the game. That doesn’t guarantee it will work, but it certainly improves our chances.
No they weren’t.
With Walker helping him. TAA just because he’s the best crosser on the team and will have plenty of space to cross.
I'd like to think Southgate has learned from the euros. It's all well and good setting up defensively but you still need to carry some attacking threat and can't just spend the entire game camped in your half, you're going to concede.
I don't think France are that much better than us, we can attack them and win the game. Mbappe is not a god. Midfield wise, I think we're better. Front 3 is not much worse and our defence is more reliable than there's even if they have better individuals.
You’re the FA - it’s Saturday night and England have just lost to France. Do you stick with Southgate or begin the hunt for his successor?
If you’re making a change, who’s your top target?
Southgate atleast has the players in good spirits etc, he's basically OGS at this point, there never feels much there tactically but he's clearly got the squad harmony going well.
If quality managers like Poch and Tuchel want the job you absolutely give it to them over Southgate should he lose to France, if it's only the usual terrible international manager candidates, then who knows if there's even any point in changing.