Time Analysis of Icon Swap Set 1

1
Chewbaccary
950 posts Professional
For the sake of discussion, I wanted to try to calculate a rough expectation for the amount of time required to unlock the tokens for icon swap set 1.

ICON SWAPS PROGRESS (1 token)

- Score 20 goals with first owned players in Rivals
- Play 20 matches in FUT using at least one first owned player
-
ANALYSIS: These are very easy objectives and will naturally be completed by anyone who plays DR to unlock the other objectives, so I'm going to add no time for this segment. It is essentially a "free" token if you play online at all.

ICON SWAPS ONLINE (7 tokens)

- Win 3 DR matches using a full gold squad max 83 OVR squad rating
- Win 9 WL matches
- Win 3 DR matches using at least 7 first owned EPL starters
- Win 3 DR matches using at least 7 first owned Serie A starters
- Win 3 DR matches using at least 7 first owned La Liga starters
- Win 3 DR matches using at least 7 first owned Ligue One starters
- Win 3 DR matches using at least 7 first owned Bundesliga starters
-
ANALYSIS: The WL token requires 9 wins. If each match takes 15 minutes and you win all 9 on your first try, that's roughly 135 minutes of gameplay, or 2.25 hours. Since it's very hard to win every WL game, this is likely to take most people 3-5 hours at a minimum. The task of winning 3 DR games with a gold squad max 83 OVR should be easy to complete naturally in the process of playing DR, so we'll also call that a "free" token. The other 6 online tokens cannot be completed concurrently and require specific squads to finish. If we assume that each match takes 15 minutes, that's 45 minutes per token if you win every game you play. 45 minutes x 6 tokens = 270 minutes (4.5 hours). Add the minimum time from the WL objective (135 minutes) to the minimum time from the DR objectives (270 minutes) and it means you will spend a minimum of 405 minutes (6.75 hours) to complete the online icon tokens, and likely a lot more than that when you factor in losses and draws. A more realistic estimate for an average player would be something like 10-14 hours to complete all of these tokens.

ICON SWAPS SINGLE PLAYER (4 tokens)

- Win 6 SBs on min. World Class using a full gold squad max 83 OVR squad rating
- Win 5 SBs on min. World Class using 11 MLS starters
- Win 5 SBs on min. World Class using 11 CSL starters
- Win 5 SBs on min. World Class using 11 Eredvisie starters
-
ANALYSIS: The objective to win 6 SBs with a gold squad max 83 overall can be mostly completed while doing the Eredvisie portion of this, though it cannot be done with MLS or CSL because they lack gold defenders. We'll still call this a "free" token because it will essentially be finished while you do the Eredvisie portion (and if you're strapped for time that's the first step you should do). That leaves 3 tokens, each requiring you to win 5 matches. 3 x 5 matches x 15 minutes per match = 225 minutes. So, if you win every game then you can get all of the offline tokens in roughly 3.75 hours. If you struggle to win against the CPU on WC then this can stretch out considerably.

CONCLUSION:

Add the minimum time for the online objectives (6.75 hours) to the minimum time for the offline objectives (3.75 hours) and you get 10.5 hours as the absolute minimum time to unlock all of the tokens (possibly slightly lower due to rage quits). When you factor in the probability of losses in DR/WL/SB and the fact that games can drag due to replays, pauses, and extra time, it probably looks more like 15-16 hours of gameplay to unlock everything, and more than that if you're a weak player. Bear in mind that season 2 will have its own objectives, so if it follows the same general pattern then you may need to tack on another 12-15 hours to get the top items like Drogba or Butragueno. So overall you're looking at potentially ~30 hours of gameplay if you want Drogba.

People will say this is a "free" icon, but there is obviously a time cost, particularly if you're an exclusively online or offline player who doesn't want to delve into the other modes. 30 hours of gameplay for the most expensive reward is a time commitment roughly equivalent to playing 3-4 full WLs.

People will say the community is "entitled" for complaining about this promotion. Personally, I think the promotion is nice...as an addition what we already had. It gives people rewards for playing the game and incentive for trying new squads and modes. If you don't think it's good value, you can simply ignore it.

The problem for me is that this wasn't added as an addition to icon SBCs, but rather as a replacement for icon SBCs. There will be no individual icon SBCs in FUT 20. This change has been framed as a generous measure to help a larger portion of the player pool access icons, but it actually seems like a thinly-veiled measure to widen the paywall separating players for top-tier content, as you will no longer be able to build towards the likes of Gullit/Eusebio/Vieira/R10/R9/etc, and instead will have to settle for whatever icons EA offers you on their schedule, using their objectives. Overall, players have less agency and power in the process than they have in the past. This seems to be a deliberate strategy from EA, beginning with "icon sets" in FUT 19 and the refusal of PIM SBCs for the best players (R10, Gullit, Pele, etc). This year it has evolved into a more rigid system where you get what they say, how they say, when they say.

Comments

  • Chewbaccary
    950 posts Professional
    FYI, my math was a little off here. I accidentally added an extra segment when calculating the online objectives.

    The general argument is still the same though.
  • H_Mus
    443 posts Sunday League Hero
    It's not that bad. Most people play division rivals so it's really just playing with a different team than norm. Strong players should be able to win majority of games with any gold team so the ability to get an icon for no added effort (except building a first owner team) is pretty awesome.
  • Numberofluck27
    214 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    But.. most of the objective playing time you should have played anyways. So its not EXTRA playing time, only a different way of playing.
  • RTG20
    394 posts Sunday League Hero
    People who complain are people who don't play the game but like to sit there ruining the market for people who don't want to play through a web app looking at investment guides/videos

    There is 0 reason to complain about the implementation if you are someone who likes to play the game

    If you don't like to play the game well then that's another issue
  • IxToMxI
    5675 posts Big Money Move
    You didn’t overlay the fact the objectives are out for a month so your calculation should be offset to the ratio if total hours they are available for ;)
  • Orison
    48695 posts FIFA Cover Star
    H_Mus wrote: »
    It's not that bad. Most people play division rivals so it's really just playing with a different team than norm. Strong players should be able to win majority of games with any gold team so the ability to get an icon for no added effort (except building a first owner team) is pretty awesome.

    Strong players are in a division in which their opponents don't care about the objectives.

    I'm in div 2, there is legit no chance that I could win the majority of games while using a first owner team.

    Even if you sub off 3 players that leaves you with 4 players who aren't up to scratch. Good luck having that many weaknesses in your squad.
  • VENPATT
    207 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    30 hours in 30 days ...means hardly 1 hour per day..looks reasonable
  • Moe_86
    950 posts Professional
    I don’t think any of them worth the grinding to be honest
  • Ferrari_LFC10
    371 posts Sunday League Hero
    Orison wrote: »
    H_Mus wrote: »
    It's not that bad. Most people play division rivals so it's really just playing with a different team than norm. Strong players should be able to win majority of games with any gold team so the ability to get an icon for no added effort (except building a first owner team) is pretty awesome.

    Strong players are in a division in which their opponents don't care about the objectives.

    I'm in div 2, there is legit no chance that I could win the majority of games while using a first owner team.

    Even if you sub off 3 players that leaves you with 4 players who aren't up to scratch. Good luck having that many weaknesses in your squad.

    This.
  • Mmandras
    2086 posts Fans' Favourite
    It's not nearly as bad as season card objectives Zaha, Tolisso and that spanish dude.
  • ILevis
    787 posts Semi-Pro
    But 99% of the people play for that amount of time anyways, just maybe with a different team

    Also you are not considering the rewards you get in the other modes. If you do all the Rivals objectives in 1 week, thats safe 60k for rank 1 in Rivals. If you do them spread out you probably reach rank 2 or 3 multiple week. So its actually safe 100-150k for some people.

    9 wins in weekend league, thats another 50k

    Did all the squad battles challenges, congrats you earned yourself another at minimum another 30k in rewards


    So if you want to treat those objectives as something where people only play to get those icons, you should also account for the 200k coins you get for completing them. If you say the coins dont count because most people get those through playing anyways, thats exactly my point: Most people play for 30 hours anyways, so the icon objectives arent nearly as much of a hassle as you make them out to be
  • Knowlesdinho
    10574 posts Has That Special Something
    edited October 13
    RTG20 wrote: »
    People who complain are people who don't play the game but like to sit there ruining the market for people who don't want to play through a web app looking at investment guides/videos

    There is 0 reason to complain about the implementation if you are someone who likes to play the game

    If you don't like to play the game well then that's another issue

    This is ridiculous, as far as I can see it's mainly people in top divisions complaining and saying they will relegate themselves for easier objectives by beating players at lesser skill levels.

    Then there's those complaining about the time it will take, the same ones incidentally that complain about the time it takes to play WL for rubbish rewards YET play it every weekend religiously.

    I've barely seen one trader complain about these objectives.
  • Knowlesdinho
    10574 posts Has That Special Something
    I'm actually looking forward to this. I have a rtg planned based around Pirlo. I was about to buy the mid, but instead I'm going to work towards the base for my rtg instead which means I can build up more coins by trading to support me with the rest of the rtg.
  • deang07
    8236 posts League Winner
    cant look at this as bad its over a month go for the tokens u want.
    ffs wl is bad thats over 8 hours in 3 days.

    20 hours over a month is not out of order
  • Numlocked_
    1657 posts Play-Off Hero
    You lot forget that for the next month all those people play with players they don't want to play with. One month people are not playing the team they want to play. I don't mind a little grinding but having to do it with specific teams is kinda BS.

    The first owner thing is even worse. You depend on the pack luck they give? lol really?
  • Knowlesdinho
    10574 posts Has That Special Something
    Numlocked_ wrote: »
    You lot forget that for the next month all those people play with players they don't want to play with. One month people are not playing the team they want to play. I don't mind a little grinding but having to do it with specific teams is kinda BS.

    The first owner thing is even worse. You depend on the pack luck they give? lol really?

    It's hardly one month. I reckon I'll complete most of these this week and I work full time and have a family. I'm out most of today but later this aft I'm going to try and do most of the SB ones.
  • DonovanFan
    656 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Cool breakdown thanks man.
  • Mmandras
    2086 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited October 13
    Ok just compare it to the time you would earn million + coins (one big or two icons worth), or get rewards in the same coin ammount?

    Sure you don't want to play with first owner dross I get it, but everyone is in the same boat, just forfeit if you come across creditcard FC and SB are super easy with this year refresh spamming.

    Stop moanin' and get grindin'. OP cound easily grind a few games by the time he finished his analysis.
  • Senth6
    502 posts An Exciting Prospect
    I done the onlinds ones easy if u kept all ya packs stuff and not sold each player ud get the DR portion done in 1 sitting just keep ya best 4 players in the team and throw in paceiest guys for that league
  • Aguy9916
    841 posts Professional
    I like it a lot, it's making the game more geared towards playing for rewards than paying for rewards... added a new element of playing with what you've won which is welcomed and this will bring some amazing variety to some games when you meet people who are doing the same...

    So far I've really enjoyed completing the season objectives even though some were frustrating and I cant wait to get started on these. The game just played relatively with the same meta teams gets tedious very very quickly so all this stuff is very welcome to me.

    It's my first RTG this year so no FP spent, I was on a brand new club after a massive quit and delete last year so got very few reward packs and only bought the standard game... yet even I almost have enough in my club to make a team to do each objective, and I only started saving my first owners last week when I found out about this.... yes there will be some as always who spend loads and will end up with amazing teams for objectives and good luck to them.

    I'm looking forward to a week of objective grabbing with a load of useless dudes playing out of position, and I'm hoping I meet others doing the same 😂😂

    And to get an icon for it is just brilliant... well.done EA... first step towards making this game what it should be.
  • RTG20
    394 posts Sunday League Hero
    RTG20 wrote: »
    People who complain are people who don't play the game but like to sit there ruining the market for people who don't want to play through a web app looking at investment guides/videos

    There is 0 reason to complain about the implementation if you are someone who likes to play the game

    If you don't like to play the game well then that's another issue

    This is ridiculous, as far as I can see it's mainly people in top divisions complaining and saying they will relegate themselves for easier objectives by beating players at lesser skill levels.

    Then there's those complaining about the time it will take, the same ones incidentally that complain about the time it takes to play WL for rubbish rewards YET play it every weekend religiously.

    I've barely seen one trader complain about these objectives.

    @Knowlesdinho

    If they do that they're going to have a hell of a long climb to get back to Div 1, it's a lot of points to climb.

    If people want to sacrifice better rewards for a "free" icon then they have that choice, or they can try grind it out at higher division.

    I don't see a problem, I for one finally like the direction EA took.

    The 7 FO isn't that hard either, you can have a corner with 4 players from another league that you like hybrid with greens, then of your 7 FO only 4 have to be good, you sub off the other 3, I'm sure most people should have 4 USABLE players from the top 5 leagues, I've just smashed out the Serie A and EPL ones in 7 matches (drew 1)
    Numlocked_ wrote: »
    You lot forget that for the next month all those people play with players they don't want to play with. One month people are not playing the team they want to play. I don't mind a little grinding but having to do it with specific teams is kinda BS.

    The first owner thing is even worse. You depend on the pack luck they give? lol really?

    You don't have to play Champs with that team, only 3 rivals wins 5 times, that's like NOTHING, and above I broke down how easy it is to build around it.

    Squad battles portion is a joke, you just refresh for the low rating low chem teams, 15 games is 2 weeks if you don't wanna play for no points, I'll have it done by tomorrow.
  • lippyone
    1535 posts Play-Off Hero
    Do squad battles every week anyway so none of them really take up any extra time at all. The same with rivals too. It quite interesting playing with a different squad.

    They only a chore if you make them one.
  • Amdp9
    3154 posts National Call-Up
    @Chewbaccary i am so proud of you !
  • Great work OP
    :)
  • Daarky
    252 posts Sunday League Hero
    30 hours for 30 days, it's 1hour per day (best math ever)... so, i think it's really reasonable.
  • Knowlesdinho
    10574 posts Has That Special Something
    RTG20 wrote: »
    RTG20 wrote: »
    People who complain are people who don't play the game but like to sit there ruining the market for people who don't want to play through a web app looking at investment guides/videos

    There is 0 reason to complain about the implementation if you are someone who likes to play the game

    If you don't like to play the game well then that's another issue

    This is ridiculous, as far as I can see it's mainly people in top divisions complaining and saying they will relegate themselves for easier objectives by beating players at lesser skill levels.

    Then there's those complaining about the time it will take, the same ones incidentally that complain about the time it takes to play WL for rubbish rewards YET play it every weekend religiously.

    I've barely seen one trader complain about these objectives.

    @Knowlesdinho

    If they do that they're going to have a hell of a long climb to get back to Div 1, it's a lot of points to climb.

    If people want to sacrifice better rewards for a "free" icon then they have that choice, or they can try grind it out at higher division.

    I don't see a problem, I for one finally like the direction EA took.

    The 7 FO isn't that hard either, you can have a corner with 4 players from another league that you like hybrid with greens, then of your 7 FO only 4 have to be good, you sub off the other 3, I'm sure most people should have 4 USABLE players from the top 5 leagues, I've just smashed out the Serie A and EPL ones in 7 matches (drew 1)
    Numlocked_ wrote: »
    You lot forget that for the next month all those people play with players they don't want to play with. One month people are not playing the team they want to play. I don't mind a little grinding but having to do it with specific teams is kinda BS.

    The first owner thing is even worse. You depend on the pack luck they give? lol really?

    You don't have to play Champs with that team, only 3 rivals wins 5 times, that's like NOTHING, and above I broke down how easy it is to build around it.

    Squad battles portion is a joke, you just refresh for the low rating low chem teams, 15 games is 2 weeks if you don't wanna play for no points, I'll have it done by tomorrow.

    @RTG20 they don't care because they will probably already qualify for WL just by playing and the rewards proportionally are better for the effort in lower divisions.
  • Stone_cold_tea93
    1006 posts Professional
    I've nearly done it and only started yesterday. Just got 1 win with Bundesliga and 3 with Seris A then 1 with Squad Battles. Left the squad battles for last to make my final one nice and easy.

    The squad battles was the longest part. With Rivals I either got quits or quit myself when I saw I wouldn't win.

    It's a reasonable system. It's much better than having to spend millions on SBCs.
  • Retro_G
    29266 posts Player of the Year
    You need to take into account the amount of time it will take people to relegate themselves to lower divisions. :joy:
  • Mmandras
    2086 posts Fans' Favourite
    Retro_G wrote: »
    You need to take into account the amount of time it will take people to relegate themselves to lower divisions. :joy:

    Haha, this. It will be such a drag winning in div 6/5. I can't even force myself to start grinding.
  • Stevo_CT
    2985 posts National Call-Up
    Mmandras wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    You need to take into account the amount of time it will take people to relegate themselves to lower divisions. :joy:

    Haha, this. It will be such a drag winning in div 6/5. I can't even force myself to start grinding.

    It's not too bad, I'm in Div6 and already have 8 of the 12 tokens, approx 50% win/lose ratio.
    ps... I'm a crap player, so most will probably proceed quicker to attaining all the objective cards.
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