If he is open to leaving, he has to adhere to the contract he signed (in its latest, most current form). It is as simple as that, really.
It's very clear he signed the contract in good faith to help them out, and didn't expect to have it used against him.
I agree legally Barca are doing nothing wrong, but it's clear they gave taken advantage of the player every single opportunity they got.
He's only demanding it after being forced out of the club he wanted to be at, he has every right to insist on staying, or to ask for the wages he would've earned should they really want to force him out.
He has every right to insist on staying, as he signed a contract. However, he doesn’t have any right to insist on being paid the wages he agreed to get this/next season if he’s no longer at the club. That’s how contracts work. I understand that the pay cut/wage deferral was signed in good faith, but I doubt Barcelona had already planned to sell him at that point. Things change and selling FDJ stands to benefit them and improve them so of course they are going to have their own best interests at heart rather than stunt themselves just so that one player gets what he was “owed” morally.
Everyone understands WHY Barca are doing what they are doing for business purpose, but therein lies where Barca are the scummy ones, not FDJ. It's obvious he signed the contract as a favor to help them out financially but he clearly intended to see the contract out as it's dream club. Now Barca are attempting to force him out before they are forced to pay him his dues.
Anyone here in FDJ's position would feel completely ❤️❤️❤️❤️ over and absolutely fight it exactly as he's doing.
That's why I said if he is open to moving. If he is open to moving, it is perfectly fine and let's not pretend that United won't put him on stupid wages anyway.
No, there's a difference between "open to leaving" and "wanting to leave". If he went in there and demanded a transfer and still put up this fight over due wages....I could understand your stance more, but he's being forced out...that's the difference.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
Wouldn't touch Depay with a bargepole, poor decision if United re-sign him imo.
While I'm probably the minority of the fan base that believes he didn't get a fair shake due to constantly being shuffled around to different roles and never properly settling... even I don't want to re-sign him.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
I agree with what you're saying but I guess from his point of view he's thinking, i'm getting forced out of the club so I want the money I would have got.
Ideally he would just stay there it seems. If he does though he might end up playing 2nd fiddle just because the club will want to force him to move.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
Why are you finding it so hard to grasp? Seems you're in the minority (maybe the only one) with this viewpoint.
He took less, per agreement, to help Barcelona out, in return he gets that money later. They now want to unload him so they dont have to pay him what they agreed upon. That's garbage.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
I think it's more of a sense that when De Jong signed for them he signed a contract for €400k a week, then Covid happened and he agreed to help the club out and defer the wages he is entitled to on his current contract by signing a new contract with the agreement he will get those deferred wages over the next 4 years.
The key part is during the 2 year Covid period when he deffered the wages he was getting paid from what I estimate based on £17m owed €209k per week instead of €400k and €200k was paid by Nike. So for 2 years Barca weren't paying him €191k a week which he is entitled to, then signed a new contract to get what's owed to him over the 4 years which was the best way Barca could pay him back
I understand the moral side of it and that it is a bit cheeky of Barcelona to do. I'm just saying, he isn't entitled to it, as that is how contracts work. Maybe he should have had a clause written in that if he gets sold, he is entitled to it...
Otherwise there isn't a lot he can do, and he is effectively blackmailing Barcelona now by threatening to make their lives very difficult by staying at the club and throwing a spanner into their transfer works if they don't pay him the money he isn't actually contractually obliged to get if he leaves.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
No one's arguing the contract stuff which is the approach you're taking. Don't think anyone has disagreed with that. The whole argument is that Barca are the scummy ones in this situation by trying to capitalize on trying to get out of paying FDJ his future wages and the difference in what they owed him since he did them a favor. It's obvious he would prefer to stay, it's his dream club, but Barca are clearly playing games to force him out to get him off the books. Again, if you were in FDJ's shoes right now, zero chance you'd just accept it and walk away, you'd want your money too, especially if you don't want to leave and are being forced out.
I understand the moral side of it and that it is a bit cheeky of Barcelona to do. I'm just saying, he isn't entitled to it, as that is how contracts work. Maybe he should have had a clause written in that if he gets sold, he is entitled to it...#
Otherwise there isn't a lot he can do, and he is effectively blackmailing Barcelona now by threatening to make their lives very difficult if they don't pay him the money he isn't actually contractually obliged to get if he leaves.
Right but the moral side is what is being argued. LOL. Barca are the scummy party throughout this whole ordeal.
Don't understand the blackmailing angle either, he's contractually obligated to the club right now, both parties agreed on the contract. If he chooses to decline a move, Barca still has to honor the contract.
I'd be willing to wager though, that if it were United in this position and a United player was doing what FDJ is doing right now, which threatens to scupper a lot of United's transfer plans in the process, you wouldn't be taking the player's side. You'd want what is best for your club.
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
It just seems pointless to look at it from a greed standpoint, you could argue virtually every PL footballer is greedy, i.e Salah getting a bigger contract.
They have every right to get every penny they can from they're job, and if Barca want to force him out as it seems to be the case then he has every right to say no, unless they do it on his terms.
It's not like he's kicking up a fuss and refusing to play, he clearly wants to stay put, but is giving Barca an option if they are so desperate to get rid.
It's like say you work for an IT company and you were paid £60k a year. They were having a bad time during Covid and to survive and keep your job during the difficult time they asked you to accept a £35k salary for a couple of years with the promise you'll get the £50k you are owed after the 2 years over a 4 year period in addition to your salary going back to the normal £60k so you'll get £72.5k a year.
Then suddenly they are trying force you out after Covid (I know it's not the same with a normal job Vs football in this sense) and they are trying every trick they can to get you to quit and get another job so they don't have to pay you £50k owed wages, what would you do?
I'd be willing to wager though, that if it were United in this position and a United player was doing what FDJ is doing right now, which threatens to scupper a lot of United's transfer plans in the process, you wouldn't be taking the player's side. You'd want what is best for your club.
I really don't get this from you, you seem to be essentially the only person with this opinion too.
FDJ isn't scuppering anything, he simply wants to play the contract he's on, If Chelsea tried to force Havertz out and this was the situation I would 100% be behind the player.
I honestly don't get your viewpoint on this one at all.
I'm not trying to argue. Like I said, I couldn't care less about who "wins" this between Barcelona and FDJ. I am just playing the devil's advocate and presenting how I feel Barcelona see the situation. I'm looking at it from both sides.
FDJ: I agreed to help you out by taking a pay cut now and getting it back in future seasons. Now you want to sell me before I am owed that money. I don't like this. If you want me to leave, give me the money that I would have gotten if I didn't take the pay cut. Or I will stay.
Barca: You agreed to a paycut to help us out, thanks, that was helpful. However, it is in our best interest to sell you so that we can invest into the team and improve. Sorry, but we need to sell you. We don't owe you that money, because you signed a contract stating that you'd get the money in 22/23 and 23/24, but if you're not here, that contract no longer exists and United will be paying your wages.
I'd be willing to wager though, that if it were United in this position and a United player was doing what FDJ is doing right now, which threatens to scupper a lot of United's transfer plans in the process, you wouldn't be taking the player's side. You'd want what is best for your club.
I really don't get this from you, you seem to be essentially the only person with this opinion too.
FDJ isn't scuppering anything, he simply wants to play the contract he's on, If Chelsea tried to force Havertz out and this was the situation I would 100% be behind the player.
I honestly don't get your viewpoint on this one at all.
You would support the player even if it meant you couldn't register 2-3 players that you felt would propel you into title challengers? I don't believe you.
I certainly wouldn't. At the end of the day, these footballers are rich and have their lives sorted. I want what is best for the team and I'm not going to back a player effectively blocking the improvement of my club.
It's like say you work for an IT company and you were paid £60k a year. They were having a bad time during Covid and to survive and keep your job during the difficult time they asked you to accept a £35k salary for a couple of years with the promise you'll get the £50k you are owed after the 2 years over a 4 year period in addition to your salary going back to the normal £60k so you'll get £72.5k a year.
Then suddenly they are trying force you out after Covid (I know it's not the same with a normal job Vs football in this sense) and they are trying every trick they can to get you to quit and get another job so they don't have to pay you £50k owed wages, what would you do?
If they were transferring me to the same job that would effectively pay me that wage anyway, why would I care?
It's like say you work for an IT company and you were paid £60k a year. They were having a bad time during Covid and to survive and keep your job during the difficult time they asked you to accept a £35k salary for a couple of years with the promise you'll get the £50k you are owed after the 2 years over a 4 year period in addition to your salary going back to the normal £60k so you'll get £72.5k a year.
Then suddenly they are trying force you out after Covid (I know it's not the same with a normal job Vs football in this sense) and they are trying every trick they can to get you to quit and get another job so they don't have to pay you £50k owed wages, what would you do?
If they were transferring me to the same job that would effectively pay me that wage anyway, why would I care?
lmao... because you're coughing up 50k in this scenario? That's a nice car, nice lump in the savings, help the kids college funds, etc... I'm sorry, but I don't believe that in this scenario you'd let them force you out without a fight and walk away from 50k in this scenario just because you've got another 60-70k job lined up... ❤️❤️❤️❤️ that. lmfao. No chance you wouldn't care.
Rated E For Everyone.
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No, there's a difference between "open to leaving" and "wanting to leave". If he went in there and demanded a transfer and still put up this fight over due wages....I could understand your stance more, but he's being forced out...that's the difference.
Edit: Like, what if United were never in for him?
If FDJ wanted to leave Barca for Man Utd/Chelsea and demanded his 'owed' wages then he has no sympathy due to the way the new contract is done
If Barca wants to force FDJ out when he wants to stay then he has every right to say 'okay pay me my owed wages if you want me to leave because I signed this new contract thinking I'd get those wages back over the next 4 years here, if not I'll stay put'
Dutch ✅
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Exactly... and all signs and reliable reports are pointing to the latter
While I'm probably the minority of the fan base that believes he didn't get a fair shake due to constantly being shuffled around to different roles and never properly settling... even I don't want to re-sign him.
But in a roundabout way, isn't that greedy? As he will no doubt be getting obscene wages at United anyway. So not only will he get obscene wages at United if he moves, but he wants extra money on top of that from Barca that he is no longer contractually obliged to? So he would end up getting even more money than if he never moved in the first place?
That's my point.
It’s akin to an employee staying for their bonus.
He isn't owed them unless he stays though.
I don't get how that would be "greedy" when it's already been agreed upon. Its greedy from Barcelona trying to skate on what they owe him.
He's Dutch so absolutely nothing - Ten Hag
But they simply don't owe it to him if he leaves? Why are people finding that concept so hard to grasp?
I agree with what you're saying but I guess from his point of view he's thinking, i'm getting forced out of the club so I want the money I would have got.
Ideally he would just stay there it seems. If he does though he might end up playing 2nd fiddle just because the club will want to force him to move.
Why are you finding it so hard to grasp? Seems you're in the minority (maybe the only one) with this viewpoint.
He took less, per agreement, to help Barcelona out, in return he gets that money later. They now want to unload him so they dont have to pay him what they agreed upon. That's garbage.
I think it's more of a sense that when De Jong signed for them he signed a contract for €400k a week, then Covid happened and he agreed to help the club out and defer the wages he is entitled to on his current contract by signing a new contract with the agreement he will get those deferred wages over the next 4 years.
The key part is during the 2 year Covid period when he deffered the wages he was getting paid from what I estimate based on £17m owed €209k per week instead of €400k and €200k was paid by Nike. So for 2 years Barca weren't paying him €191k a week which he is entitled to, then signed a new contract to get what's owed to him over the 4 years which was the best way Barca could pay him back
Or I am wrong I don't know
Otherwise there isn't a lot he can do, and he is effectively blackmailing Barcelona now by threatening to make their lives very difficult by staying at the club and throwing a spanner into their transfer works if they don't pay him the money he isn't actually contractually obliged to get if he leaves.
I have no skin in this game and couldn't care less about Barcelona or FDJ. I'm just looking at it objectively.
Right but the moral side is what is being argued. LOL. Barca are the scummy party throughout this whole ordeal.
Don't understand the blackmailing angle either, he's contractually obligated to the club right now, both parties agreed on the contract. If he chooses to decline a move, Barca still has to honor the contract.
It just seems pointless to look at it from a greed standpoint, you could argue virtually every PL footballer is greedy, i.e Salah getting a bigger contract.
They have every right to get every penny they can from they're job, and if Barca want to force him out as it seems to be the case then he has every right to say no, unless they do it on his terms.
It's not like he's kicking up a fuss and refusing to play, he clearly wants to stay put, but is giving Barca an option if they are so desperate to get rid.
Then suddenly they are trying force you out after Covid (I know it's not the same with a normal job Vs football in this sense) and they are trying every trick they can to get you to quit and get another job so they don't have to pay you £50k owed wages, what would you do?
I really don't get this from you, you seem to be essentially the only person with this opinion too.
FDJ isn't scuppering anything, he simply wants to play the contract he's on, If Chelsea tried to force Havertz out and this was the situation I would 100% be behind the player.
I honestly don't get your viewpoint on this one at all.
FDJ: I agreed to help you out by taking a pay cut now and getting it back in future seasons. Now you want to sell me before I am owed that money. I don't like this. If you want me to leave, give me the money that I would have gotten if I didn't take the pay cut. Or I will stay.
Barca: You agreed to a paycut to help us out, thanks, that was helpful. However, it is in our best interest to sell you so that we can invest into the team and improve. Sorry, but we need to sell you. We don't owe you that money, because you signed a contract stating that you'd get the money in 22/23 and 23/24, but if you're not here, that contract no longer exists and United will be paying your wages.
You would support the player even if it meant you couldn't register 2-3 players that you felt would propel you into title challengers? I don't believe you.
I certainly wouldn't. At the end of the day, these footballers are rich and have their lives sorted. I want what is best for the team and I'm not going to back a player effectively blocking the improvement of my club.
If they were transferring me to the same job that would effectively pay me that wage anyway, why would I care?
lmao... because you're coughing up 50k in this scenario? That's a nice car, nice lump in the savings, help the kids college funds, etc... I'm sorry, but I don't believe that in this scenario you'd let them force you out without a fight and walk away from 50k in this scenario just because you've got another 60-70k job lined up... ❤️❤️❤️❤️ that. lmfao. No chance you wouldn't care.