Manchester United Football Club

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  • El_Nino
    7356 posts Big Money Move
    edited March 4
    Deano to have an absolute blinder of a month, every game finishes 0-0, go through against Milan after Deano saves every penalty and scores one.

    Dave comes straight back in regardless and launches the ball into his own net 3 games running.
  • Pxul_
    10279 posts Has That Special Something
    Keano wrote: »
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    Wijnaldum is overrated I barely notice he’s playing in our games. I’ve made my opinion about it very clear that I can’t wait for him to go. He can play anywhere in our midfield 3 which makes him useful as a versatile player but shouldn’t be a first choice starter for me.

    Thing is he fits your system, which is great. Thiago for example, doesn't fit your system as much so isn't 100% the player he can be due to your system not playing to what benefits him completely. Sometimes it's better to have the player that fits your system over one that doesn't, but quality wise isn't as good. Not saying Thiago should be benched, but as an example it fits of someone who does fit the system against someone who doesn't.

    Oh I don’t doubt that at all, however Thiago has yet to play in our ‘best’ team. Gini fits the system we’re playing at the moment. However, once hendo and fab return to the midfield I feel like we’ll see the best of Thiago.
  • Pxul_
    10279 posts Has That Special Something
    El_Nino wrote: »
    Deano to have an absolute blinder of a month, every game finishes 0-0, go through against Milan after Deano saves every penalty and scores one.

    Dave comes straight back in regardless and launches the ball into his own net 3 games running.

    And DDG starts every game until the end of the season😂
  • Shshj
    6517 posts Big Money Move
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Shshj wrote: »
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.

    The change is inevitable for me anyway, so it's a situation the club have to have been thinking about ever since Henderson was secured to stay this season.
  • Pietu
    8502 posts League Winner
    Keano wrote: »
    Shshj wrote: »
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.

    The change is inevitable for me anyway, so it's a situation the club have to have been thinking about ever since Henderson was secured to stay this season.

    Yeah, Henderson is the future. But I think United did the smart thing in not getting rid of Ddg this season because it's a completely different beast being a starter for United than for Sheffield United and it's smart to let him grow into that spot.
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Pietu wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Shshj wrote: »
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.

    The change is inevitable for me anyway, so it's a situation the club have to have been thinking about ever since Henderson was secured to stay this season.

    Yeah, Henderson is the future. But I think United did the smart thing in not getting rid of Ddg this season because it's a completely different beast being a starter for United than for Sheffield United and it's smart to let him grow into that spot.

    Oh for sure, but the transition period needs to be dealt with as well, if De Gea plays too much from now till the end of the season, then Henderson won't have had enough chances to do the change of guard (for me I'd loan/sell de gea this summer).
  • Pietu
    8502 posts League Winner
    Keano wrote: »
    Pietu wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Shshj wrote: »
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.

    The change is inevitable for me anyway, so it's a situation the club have to have been thinking about ever since Henderson was secured to stay this season.

    Yeah, Henderson is the future. But I think United did the smart thing in not getting rid of Ddg this season because it's a completely different beast being a starter for United than for Sheffield United and it's smart to let him grow into that spot.

    Oh for sure, but the transition period needs to be dealt with as well, if De Gea plays too much from now till the end of the season, then Henderson won't have had enough chances to do the change of guard (for me I'd loan/sell de gea this summer).

    Yeah I agree with that, this stretch of games that he gets now is his big chance and depending on how he does in those games, should decide how much gametime he gets this season. If he completely and utterly fails then I have no clue what you should do next season, but if he does well, then you need to get rid of Ddg, can't have him be a backup with those wages.
  • Ahmer50x
    27596 posts Player of the Year
    Shshj wrote: »
    Isn't De Gea on something ridiculous per week, and how long does he have left on his deal? If Henderson comes in and smashes it then you could have a massive dilemma on your hands.

    375k a week until 2023

    The way out is to loan him with us paying 2/3 of his wages for a year, hope he does well enough to convince someone to take him with a year left on his deal like Alexis.
  • Rand0m Hero
    1083 posts Professional
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I felt like I was watching Jose’s United today.

    It was worse.

    It was up there with the worst of LVG.

    Ole has made huge strides this season as a manager but he still struggles with finding a way to break down teams that do not allow room to counter. Klopp had the same issue and Poch as far as I know has still never figured out how to beat a team that sits deep. If Ole can figure that out, I think he takes United to the next level.

    Look who United has dropped points to, teams at the bottom of the table and they took the least amount of points from the big six, teams that are very hard to counter-attack. Midtable teams United seem to have good success against and a lot of that is Bruno in space creating chances.

    It’s not a manager thing against a low block. There is no brilliant system that drags two or three defenders away from the box. It’s player quality. I watched almost every game of MSN at Barca and they played 1-2’s until a defender fell asleep then they hit a through ball. That side had about 7 players who could play a quality final ball to set someone up. When you look at United currently maybe 3-4 players have the ability to do that and none of them play on the right side so the defense can ignore that side of the pitch. Even without that caliber of player United have the second most goals in the Prem. And they only trail City by 3 goals on level amount of games. This isn’t a defense of just Ole. I wish fans of all clubs were a bit less critical of their managers in this way. Like Poch for example. I think he’s a tactically savvy manager he just didn’t always have the horses at Spurs to get it done. Someone like Pep is generally praised as a tactical genius, which is mostly deserved, but all the Pep magic in the world isn’t winning the league at Spurs if the spending isn’t there.
  • Ahmer50x
    27596 posts Player of the Year
    I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I think we really missed Pogba yesterday.
  • Stlducks
    5425 posts Big Money Move
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I think we really missed Pogba yesterday.

    I actually think you have missed Pogba a few times recently. He opens up space for Bruno and is another option to play through balls.
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I think we really missed Pogba yesterday.

    I actually think you have missed Pogba a few times recently. He opens up space for Bruno and is another option to play through balls.

    100%, it would mean another man having to keep an eye on Pogba as well which as you say, gives Bruno an extra second to do what he needs to (or rashford, shaw etc).

    Hopefully he is back soon & can help us till the end of the season before moving on.
  • Stlducks
    5425 posts Big Money Move
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I felt like I was watching Jose’s United today.

    It was worse.

    It was up there with the worst of LVG.

    Ole has made huge strides this season as a manager but he still struggles with finding a way to break down teams that do not allow room to counter. Klopp had the same issue and Poch as far as I know has still never figured out how to beat a team that sits deep. If Ole can figure that out, I think he takes United to the next level.

    Look who United has dropped points to, teams at the bottom of the table and they took the least amount of points from the big six, teams that are very hard to counter-attack. Midtable teams United seem to have good success against and a lot of that is Bruno in space creating chances.

    It’s not a manager thing against a low block. There is no brilliant system that drags two or three defenders away from the box. It’s player quality. I watched almost every game of MSN at Barca and they played 1-2’s until a defender fell asleep then they hit a through ball. That side had about 7 players who could play a quality final ball to set someone up. When you look at United currently maybe 3-4 players have the ability to do that and none of them play on the right side so the defense can ignore that side of the pitch. Even without that caliber of player United have the second most goals in the Prem. And they only trail City by 3 goals on level amount of games. This isn’t a defense of just Ole. I wish fans of all clubs were a bit less critical of their managers in this way. Like Poch for example. I think he’s a tactically savvy manager he just didn’t always have the horses at Spurs to get it done. Someone like Pep is generally praised as a tactical genius, which is mostly deserved, but all the Pep magic in the world isn’t winning the league at Spurs if the spending isn’t there.

    I completely disagree and I think you contradicted yourself with the Barca comparison. Who do you think tells the players to play 1-2’s and make runs around and into the box? There is a lot of videos you can find online breaking down Pep or Klopps tactics to pull out defenders or have attackers make quick passes and runs in tight places. It’s not like these guys say “ok Salah and Mane just do whatever!”

    What is United’s tactical approach when the counter attacker does not work? There really is no plan B yet, if Ole can figure that out United would go next level. Right now if the counter is not there, you hope Bruno does something or you win a penalty/set piece.

    Same thing I said in the Spurs thread with our attack. We have no option outside counter or Kane/Son doing something at the moment. And trust me, as someone that watched every Poch game, he is not savvy with tactics. He was stubborn, predictable and relied on pressing and player stamina to win games. It worked a lot but he also was outclassed by managers in every key game.

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the money discussion? United have talent and have spent plenty. I agree it takes talented players but it’s not like United have midtable players here.

    I have said before I was wrong on Ole to start the season and he has made big strides as United’s manager. He just needs to figure out the B plan which separates the top managers and the good managers.
  • Tornado31619
    25487 posts Player of the Year
    And now our debt’s gone up. Yippee.
  • Rand0m Hero
    1083 posts Professional
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Stlducks wrote: »
    I felt like I was watching Jose’s United today.

    It was worse.

    It was up there with the worst of LVG.

    Ole has made huge strides this season as a manager but he still struggles with finding a way to break down teams that do not allow room to counter. Klopp had the same issue and Poch as far as I know has still never figured out how to beat a team that sits deep. If Ole can figure that out, I think he takes United to the next level.

    Look who United has dropped points to, teams at the bottom of the table and they took the least amount of points from the big six, teams that are very hard to counter-attack. Midtable teams United seem to have good success against and a lot of that is Bruno in space creating chances.

    It’s not a manager thing against a low block. There is no brilliant system that drags two or three defenders away from the box. It’s player quality. I watched almost every game of MSN at Barca and they played 1-2’s until a defender fell asleep then they hit a through ball. That side had about 7 players who could play a quality final ball to set someone up. When you look at United currently maybe 3-4 players have the ability to do that and none of them play on the right side so the defense can ignore that side of the pitch. Even without that caliber of player United have the second most goals in the Prem. And they only trail City by 3 goals on level amount of games. This isn’t a defense of just Ole. I wish fans of all clubs were a bit less critical of their managers in this way. Like Poch for example. I think he’s a tactically savvy manager he just didn’t always have the horses at Spurs to get it done. Someone like Pep is generally praised as a tactical genius, which is mostly deserved, but all the Pep magic in the world isn’t winning the league at Spurs if the spending isn’t there.

    I completely disagree and I think you contradicted yourself with the Barca comparison. Who do you think tells the players to play 1-2’s and make runs around and into the box? There is a lot of videos you can find online breaking down Pep or Klopps tactics to pull out defenders or have attackers make quick passes and runs in tight places. It’s not like these guys say “ok Salah and Mane just do whatever!”

    What is United’s tactical approach when the counter attacker does not work? There really is no plan B yet, if Ole can figure that out United would go next level. Right now if the counter is not there, you hope Bruno does something or you win a penalty/set piece.

    Same thing I said in the Spurs thread with our attack. We have no option outside counter or Kane/Son doing something at the moment. And trust me, as someone that watched every Poch game, he is not savvy with tactics. He was stubborn, predictable and relied on pressing and player stamina to win games. It worked a lot but he also was outclassed by managers in every key game.

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the money discussion? United have talent and have spent plenty. I agree it takes talented players but it’s not like United have midtable players here.

    I have said before I was wrong on Ole to start the season and he has made big strides as United’s manager. He just needs to figure out the B plan which separates the top managers and the good managers.

    The people who make those videos on Klopp and Pep also make videos on Ole’s tactics if you care to watch them. It’s easy to say everyone relies on a counter attack if you think everything looks like a counter. I don’t think Klopp is a different manager today than he was last year yet Liverpool are struggling to break down opposing sides this year. I wonder what’s different ?
  • Pughy30
    28684 posts Player of the Year
    I mean the Ole being a PE teacher is obviously a meme but I really don’t know tactically what managers in the league he’s better than?, maybe Scott Parker but there’s not many
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    I mean the Ole being a PE teacher is obviously a meme but I really don’t know tactically what managers in the league he’s better than?, maybe Scott Parker but there’s not many

    He's second in the league when most United fans thought we'd be 5th-6th due to not getting Sancho, bit of respect on his name if we're going to criticize him when he does wrong/the team under performs then he deserves the credit for when they perform & where they are in the table, to do one without the other would be unjust.
  • Pughy30
    28684 posts Player of the Year
    Keano wrote: »
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    I mean the Ole being a PE teacher is obviously a meme but I really don’t know tactically what managers in the league he’s better than?, maybe Scott Parker but there’s not many

    He's second in the league when most United fans thought we'd be 5th-6th due to not getting Sancho, bit of respect on his name if we're going to criticize him when he does wrong/the team under performs then he deserves the credit for when they perform & where they are in the table, to do one without the other would be unjust.

    He’s 2nd in the league with one of the best squads in the league, he’s done better than what I thought he would but if he left United right now let’s not act like Juve, Bayern, Madrid etc would be after him
  • Tornado31619
    25487 posts Player of the Year
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    I mean the Ole being a PE teacher is obviously a meme but I really don’t know tactically what managers in the league he’s better than?, maybe Scott Parker but there’s not many

    He's second in the league when most United fans thought we'd be 5th-6th due to not getting Sancho, bit of respect on his name if we're going to criticize him when he does wrong/the team under performs then he deserves the credit for when they perform & where they are in the table, to do one without the other would be unjust.

    He’s 2nd in the league with one of the best attacks in the league, he’s done better than what I thought he would but if he left United right now let’s not act like Juve, Bayern, Madrid etc would be after him

    Fixed it for you
  • Pughy30
    28684 posts Player of the Year
    I mean he’s taken over a defence which cost a hell of a lot, you can blame the owners for the money spent but it’s not like he’s taken over a club which is financially capped and he and to work with scraps.
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    I mean he’s taken over a defence which cost a hell of a lot, you can blame the owners for the money spent but it’s not like he’s taken over a club which is financially capped and he and to work with scraps.

    You realize last season we were one of the best defences in the league? he didn't inherit that, he worked on it, he signed AWB & Maguire which before we had them, we were awful defensively, he's helped improve shaw dramatically in helping him believe in himself etc...

    There's a difference between taking over a pre made defence & building one, last season he built one... now we're coming out a lot more & due to the substantial change in being further up the pitch we're finding ourselves more open... it's a change which the team need to get used too, as I said... your comment seems to make out he did none of that himself & that Jose & previous managers bought those players in, which isn't true, whilst also not giving Ole any plaudits for his work.
  • Ahmer50x
    27596 posts Player of the Year
    I think there’s a rather simple truth here between the two extremes.

    Ole is doing fine with what he has. Not great but not bad on the whole.

    The managerial Scott McTominay if that makes sense. Nothing wrong with that. Not like Sir Alex was a master tactician.
  • Pughy30
    28684 posts Player of the Year
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I think there’s a rather simple truth here between the two extremes.

    Ole is doing fine with what he has. Not great but not bad on the whole.

    The managerial Scott McTominay if that makes sense. Nothing wrong with that. Not like Sir Alex was a master tactician.

    Ye exactly he’s doing his job with what he’s been given. Look at his rivals this year, Chelsea and Liverpool have been a mess for various reasons, with that squad I’d say he’s where he should be and I definitely think he’ll get top 4
  • Ashy
    13584 posts Has That Special Something
    edited March 4
    Once Ole leaves it will be interesting to see where he goes next, if United want to win the league they will need to get someone else in, doesn't matter who they buy
  • El_Nino
    7356 posts Big Money Move
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I think there’s a rather simple truth here between the two extremes.

    Ole is doing fine with what he has. Not great but not bad on the whole.

    The managerial Scott McTominay if that makes sense. Nothing wrong with that. Not like Sir Alex was a master tactician.

    This is a fair comment I’d say. He’s doing what he should be doing, he’s being heavily carried by Bruno, but he’s still 2nd and no one thought he’d manage that, he’s definitely doing better than most expected, very much at the ‘okay’ level as you say.

    It’ll be interesting to see if he has another level in him or not.
  • Rand0m Hero
    1083 posts Professional
    While it’s true some managers are tactically subpar most are just limited by the quality of their team. There’s only so much style you can have when you are forced to run Fred and McTominay in midfield. That’s what I was getting at with my Barcelona example. That wasn’t even a Pep side. They won with Luis Enrique. They could’ve won without a manager. When you have 8 geniuses on the pitch you can just go outclass people.
  • Pughy30
    28684 posts Player of the Year
    While it’s true some managers are tactically subpar most are just limited by the quality of their team. There’s only so much style you can have when you are forced to run Fred and McTominay in midfield. That’s what I was getting at with my Barcelona example. That wasn’t even a Pep side. They won with Luis Enrique. They could’ve won without a manager. When you have 8 geniuses on the pitch you can just go outclass people.

    He isn’t forced to run Fred and McTominay be could play VDB there against a team like Palace to add creativity, pretty sure you don’t need two holding players against them
  • Keano
    19139 posts World Class
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    While it’s true some managers are tactically subpar most are just limited by the quality of their team. There’s only so much style you can have when you are forced to run Fred and McTominay in midfield. That’s what I was getting at with my Barcelona example. That wasn’t even a Pep side. They won with Luis Enrique. They could’ve won without a manager. When you have 8 geniuses on the pitch you can just go outclass people.

    He isn’t forced to run Fred and McTominay be could play VDB there against a team like Palace to add creativity, pretty sure you don’t need two holding players against them

    Mctominay & Fred are both b2b or 8's, neither are a holding mid or 6's, they're playing there for the energy they give & due to neither being 6's they help each other cope since our only real 6 doesn't have legs. When VDB played last he showed physically he isn't fit enough to play for whatever reason, he looked shattered after 50 minutes.
  • Rand0m Hero
    1083 posts Professional
    Keano wrote: »
    Pughy30 wrote: »
    While it’s true some managers are tactically subpar most are just limited by the quality of their team. There’s only so much style you can have when you are forced to run Fred and McTominay in midfield. That’s what I was getting at with my Barcelona example. That wasn’t even a Pep side. They won with Luis Enrique. They could’ve won without a manager. When you have 8 geniuses on the pitch you can just go outclass people.

    He isn’t forced to run Fred and McTominay be could play VDB there against a team like Palace to add creativity, pretty sure you don’t need two holding players against them

    Mctominay & Fred are both b2b or 8's, neither are a holding mid or 6's, they're playing there for the energy they give & due to neither being 6's they help each other cope since our only real 6 doesn't have legs. When VDB played last he showed physically he isn't fit enough to play for whatever reason, he looked shattered after 50 minutes.
    This is how I feel. I think VDB in the Pogba role paired with Matic would be interesting. I think Donny is more of a 10 than an 8 but if he had a solid ball winner paired with him there I think it could be interesting. He just hasn’t shown the fitness yet to be played consistently. And that’s just from what we’ve seen. Who knows what goes on in training.
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