Manchester United Football Club

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  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 10
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    forearms wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    forearms wrote: »
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    if we had sancho, i think on form he would easily replace rashford ahead of greenwood

    Moving Martial to the left, and Greenwood central.

    Ole doesn't want to do that yet. It's about physicality leading the line despite him having the talent already for it. Give him another 6 months on the wing to continue bulking up then he can take over upfront.

    Greenwood already has better positioning for the ST position than Martial. He may need bulking up, but he would be fine there right now.

    This. I’ve seen little to nothing to indicate that Martial has a massive advantage on physical play over Greenwood. More often than not Martial’a hold up play suffers because defenders push him over. I think Greenwood would do just fine. And he’s got the advantage with his positioning to keep finding the pockets of space that Martial struggles to get into. I’m not saying Martial is/has been bad at ST, but it’s pretty obvious Greenwood is the clear option there and imo should be looked to play there next season at least. If we need the more physical presence, that’s where Ighalo or another back up option should come into play.

    Literally no one is doubting his ability to play there. He's going to be there for years to come. Technical ability wise he's ready now. Its only a question of when he's physically ready to start leading the line in the PL. I'd rather trust the word of someone who knows what it takes more than all of us in here put together. If he says Greenwood isn't quite ready for the #9 role due to his physicality and needs to stay on the wing a bit longer to continue bulking up, then I trust his judgement.

    It won't be much longer though, its a matter of time.

    I feel like it's more or less that he's trying to keep Martial happy by letting him play the position Martial wants to play. If we sign Sancho, I think Greenwood has to get a chance at 9 and have Martial, Rashford, Sancho competing for starting winger spots/back up ST.

    I guess my view is we've got a true and natural 9, without a doubt the most natural 9 on our team, playing at wing, and then we've got, imho and I get not everyone shares the same view, a winger playing ST. I see zero reasons that Greenwood shouldn't get a shot at his natural position next season. The kid played his way onto the bench from the reserves, played his way to a consistent sub, to cementing his place into the starting 11 and banging in goals, not even in his natural position... what more does the kid have to do to earn a shot at his natural position? I'm talking next season, not even saying this season. Let Martial finish out the season at ST, but Greenwood has earned his chance.

    I believe, and i get it's hypotheticals, we'd 100% get more goal contributions out of Greenwood at ST next season, than we would Martial at ST next season.

    You're missing the point. I'm not disputing the fact that he should be at 9 in the long term, or even the medium term. I'm talking about the very short term while he continues to bulk up. Ole has publicly made that very clear that that's what needs to happen before he's ready to lead the line in the PL. Ability wise he's already there, we just need to wait a bit longer for him to physically develop more. Starting him on the wing was a very smart move to integrate him into the team. I trust Ole's judgement regarding when he's physically strong enough to move to 9 from the wing. He knows better than we do on this.

    Like I say, it'll happen very soon, it's just a matter of time.

    That’s great. All I was doing is giving my view. The guy has done plenty to suggest that he deserves a shot at the ST role next season and hope he gets it. The kid may not absolutely need to bulk up all that much to be successful there, as long as he uses and positions his body correctly, which he already seems to be doing. I think if he gets a legitimately run at ST, I think he locks it down quickly. Yeah it’s smart to ease him in at RW, but he’s don’t the best there we’ve seen in quite some time in a very short time. He’s proven time in time again he’s comfortable at the senior level at the moment.

    Like I said I think keeping Martial at ST is more about OGS trying to keep Martial motivated because that’s where he claims to want to play, and we all know how difficult it seems to be to make the guy happy.

    The one thing I would say on the matter is for Mason, lockdown seems to have come at the perfect time to reduce the time needed physically before he can be moved to ST. I've brought it up before and its been discussed in here how he used that time to bulk up some and you can visibly see the difference, so I think Ole's estimated time before he moves him to 9 quite a few months back before lockdown may now have come down a lot. I don't think it will be much longer at all now, and rightly so like you say. Everyone knows he's ready ability wise already, that's the only part left, which shouldn't be long at all now.
    Post edited by Apollo on
  • TakeItSlow
    9360 posts League Winner
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 10
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.
  • TakeItSlow
    9360 posts League Winner
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.

    Ole a top level striker? Wasn't he just insane off the bench?
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.

    Ole a top level striker? Wasn't he just insane off the bench?

    Well done on completely missing the point.
  • TakeItSlow
    9360 posts League Winner
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.

    Ole a top level striker? Wasn't he just insane off the bench?

    Well done on completely missing the point.

    All I did was ask you a question :/ I never really knew if Ole was a sick striker cos I've only ever heard about him being insane off the bench.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 10
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.

    Ole a top level striker? Wasn't he just insane off the bench?

    Well done on completely missing the point.

    All I did was ask you a question :/ I never really knew if Ole was a sick striker cos I've only ever heard about him being insane off the bench.

    Sorry, a byproduct of talking to you a lot, misjudged the tone of the post. He was a quality striker, yes he was off the bench a lot but his finishing and movement was absolutely top class. He was a great striker. Whatever you (in general, not you personally) think of his other qualities, one of his strongest attributes is coaching forwards. He's brilliant at it.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    why does he need to bulk up to be moved to striker? Not like hes gonna be playing with his back to goal as a hold up man.

    As long as his coaching is good with movement etc then he should be your starting striker. He is absolutely elite off both feet which is incredibly rare to find in someone so young.

    He visibly needed to bulk up before lockdown to play at striker, he had a very slight frame before. Ole, the guy who's forgotten more about being a top level striker then we'll ever know said it publicly to the media on multiple occasions. He has bulked up some during lockdown and that's why we're talking about the timeline changing and being brought forward for him to be moved to striker. It's a matter of when, not if. The plan has always been for him to be at striker long term.

    No one is disputing his talent, he's absolutely phenomenal. I've on many occasions called him generational, a statement I stand by. We're just discussing the best timeline for his development that has so far been managed really well.

    Ole a top level striker? Wasn't he just insane off the bench?

    Well done on completely missing the point.

    All I did was ask you a question :/ I never really knew if Ole was a sick striker cos I've only ever heard about him being insane off the bench.

    Sorry, a byproduct of talking to you a lot, misjudged the tone of the post. He was a quality striker, yes he was off the bench a lot but his finishing and movement was absolutely top class. He was a great striker. Whatever you (in general, not you personally) think of his other qualities, one of his strongest attributes is coaching forwards. He's brilliant at it.

    I remember watching him play as well, but in case you're genuinely interested @TakeItSlow , nice little graph showing how good he was, he had a great all round game as the graph shows:

    AR8oqmB.png
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 10


    We have to be happy with that draw :D
  • Ahmer50x
    23756 posts Club Captain
    Apollo wrote: »


    We have to be happy with that draw :D

    Away to one of Olympiakos/Wolves/Sevilla/Roma if we get through that.

    Anybody but Wolves again please. It’s boring now.
  • yosef167
    1577 posts Play-Off Hero
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »


    We have to be happy with that draw :D

    Away to one of Olympiakos/Wolves/Sevilla/Roma if we get through that.

    Anybody but Wolves again please. It’s boring now.

    Sevelia are a good side and playing Nice football as well
    i wish if we also avoid them
  • ViVaWhom
    8992 posts League Winner
    arent the games in neutral grounds after we finish the current round?
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    yosef167 wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »


    We have to be happy with that draw :D

    Away to one of Olympiakos/Wolves/Sevilla/Roma if we get through that.

    Anybody but Wolves again please. It’s boring now.

    Sevelia are a good side and playing Nice football as well
    i wish if we also avoid them

    On the other hand it'd be great to get revenge against them
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    arent the games in neutral grounds after we finish the current round?

    Yeah
  • Ahmer50x
    23756 posts Club Captain
    edited July 10


    23m euros for Smalling from Roma in total then if he’s right. Not bad at all.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    Ahmer50x wrote: »


    23m euros for Smalling from Roma in total then if he’s right. Not bad at all.

    Hopefully he is right. Happy with that given it's an obligation and not an option.
  • Tornado31619
    21708 posts Club Captain
    I’d rather drink bleach than suffer for another 90 mins against Wolves
  • TakeItSlow
    9360 posts League Winner
    Looks like you will need top 4 for CL
  • forearms
    5141 posts Big Money Move
    I’d rather drink bleach than suffer for another 90 mins against Wolves

    It would look a lot different with the way the 3 midfielders pass through the lines. Seeing the difference yesterday when McTominay and Fred replaced Matic and (moved Pogba forward) reminded me of those matches. When they came in, it was a lot of sideways and backwards passing, with little progression.

    I'm seeing more clearly the reason we are still prioritizing another attack minded midfielder over a CB this upcoming window.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Looks like you will need top 4 for CL

    5th getting it was a safety net if needed, never the target. We're trying to finish as high as possible and I think we will get top 4. I think Leicester will drop out.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    forearms wrote: »
    I’d rather drink bleach than suffer for another 90 mins against Wolves

    It would look a lot different with the way the 3 midfielders pass through the lines. Seeing the difference yesterday when McTominay and Fred replaced Matic and (moved Pogba forward) reminded me of those matches. When they came in, it was a lot of sideways and backwards passing, with little progression.

    I'm seeing more clearly the reason we are still prioritizing another attack minded midfielder over a CB this upcoming window.

    Yep. We have no quality creative depth. We desperately need Grealish or VdB to replace Lingard/Pereira/Mata.
  • Tornado31619
    21708 posts Club Captain
    If we win our game whilst Leicester and Chelsea drop points in theirs, we’re third. I think Leicester will win and Chelsea get a draw.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 11
    If we win our game whilst Leicester and Chelsea drop points in theirs, we’re third. I think Leicester will win and Chelsea get a draw.

    Yeah not getting my hopes up for Leicester dropping points this match, they're against Bournemouth. If they do it would be a bonus, not expecting it. Chelsea have a tough game however and hopefully Deano can do United a favour.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain


    The change in narrative from not too long ago when it was we're not selling him, he'll be at Dortmund next season :smirk:
  • yosef167
    1577 posts Play-Off Hero
    Apollo wrote: »


    The change in narrative from not too long ago when it was we're not selling him, he'll be at Dortmund next season :smirk:

    Dortmund is not a team thats keeps them star players so no doubt they will sell and they want to sell more than we want to buy
    but these games is to keep the price high even after all the financial fall that caused by corona Virus.
    the Price tag and what we will pay will make this deal take so so long until an agreement will be made.
    United fans will need to be patient with it.
  • El_Nino
    5744 posts Big Money Move
    yosef167 wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »


    The change in narrative from not too long ago when it was we're not selling him, he'll be at Dortmund next season :smirk:

    Dortmund is not a team thats keeps them star players so no doubt they will sell and they want to sell more than we want to buy
    but these games is to keep the price high even after all the financial fall that caused by corona Virus.
    the Price tag and what we will pay will make this deal take so so long until an agreement will be made.
    United fans will need to be patient with it.

    I disagree with that massively, BVB would be more than happy to keep him, they’ll sell if the price is right I’m sure, they are a selling club, but there still a big club, by no means do they need to sell him, even in the current climate.
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    El_Nino wrote: »
    yosef167 wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »


    The change in narrative from not too long ago when it was we're not selling him, he'll be at Dortmund next season :smirk:

    Dortmund is not a team thats keeps them star players so no doubt they will sell and they want to sell more than we want to buy
    but these games is to keep the price high even after all the financial fall that caused by corona Virus.
    the Price tag and what we will pay will make this deal take so so long until an agreement will be made.
    United fans will need to be patient with it.

    I disagree with that massively, BVB would be more than happy to keep him, they’ll sell if the price is right I’m sure, they are a selling club, but there still a big club, by no means do they need to sell him, even in the current climate.

    In my opinion, based on the progression of his comments to the media, he's now accepted that he's going to leave and now he's simply trying to ensure that Dortmund get the biggest fee they can for him.
  • yosef167
    1577 posts Play-Off Hero
    El_Nino wrote: »
    yosef167 wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »


    The change in narrative from not too long ago when it was we're not selling him, he'll be at Dortmund next season :smirk:

    Dortmund is not a team thats keeps them star players so no doubt they will sell and they want to sell more than we want to buy
    but these games is to keep the price high even after all the financial fall that caused by corona Virus.
    the Price tag and what we will pay will make this deal take so so long until an agreement will be made.
    United fans will need to be patient with it.

    I disagree with that massively, BVB would be more than happy to keep him, they’ll sell if the price is right I’m sure, they are a selling club, but there still a big club, by no means do they need to sell him, even in the current climate.

    Dortmund will remain top Club they have been solding them best player everyyear.
    anyway we can both agree than an agreement is more about if United can reach the Fee that Dortmund ask for and then the player is for United.
    it will take really long so.
    all that based that Sancho does want the move as well. which is been reported to yes.

    Dortmund is top club but never tried to keep players to close the gap with Bayern and a United move for sancho should be step up in Career
    the proplem is the Fee which will just take it so long to be done which will hit other Transfer deals as United focus in 1 after 1
  • Apollo
    20080 posts Club Captain
    edited July 11
    There's an obscure source been tweeted by utdreport (no point posting it as I've never heard of them so have no idea if they're reliable), saying that Pereira has been told by the club he's going nowhere this summer. If they're right, and that's definitely a big if given the source, that seems to me to suggest what was already expected that Lingard is the one of the two who goes this summer. If we had to pick one to go, that would certainly be my choice of the order for them to go, Pereira has actually contributed a little bit this season (albeit not enough ofc). Let Lingard go this summer, Pereira next summer.
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