Manchester United Football Club

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  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain
    Retro_G wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    Stupid mistakes leading to goals costing us mate.

    Yep. Maguire hasn't been perfect but he's definitely helped improve us. Hopefully now it looks like Williams has rightfully claimed the LB spot as his own we now have a settled back 4 which will help things even further.
  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain
    Retro_G wrote: »

    :lol:
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    100000% the fullbacks and McT’s form prior to injury have had a bigger impact than Maguire.

    It's actually quite impressive how you don't see the point I made the other day about you incessantly criticising Maguire. In this case it's not direct criticism but refuting praise, but it's the same premise. It's endless and a lot of it is completely unjustified.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    Ahmer50x wrote: »

    Your point?
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    edited January 17
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    :lol:
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    100000% the fullbacks and McT’s form prior to injury have had a bigger impact than Maguire.

    It's actually quite impressive how you don't see the point I made the other day about you incessantly criticising Maguire. In this case it's not direct criticism but refuting praise, but it's the same premise. It's endless and a lot of it is completely unjustified.

    I didn’t even say anything negative about Maguire. All I said is that Mctominay and the fullbacks have had a bigger impact on our defensive performances. What is so unjustified about saying that?! Lmfao
  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    :lol:
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    100000% the fullbacks and McT’s form prior to injury have had a bigger impact than Maguire.

    It's actually quite impressive how you don't see the point I made the other day about you incessantly criticising Maguire. In this case it's not direct criticism but refuting praise, but it's the same premise. It's endless and a lot of it is completely unjustified.

    I didn’t even say anything negative about Maguire. All I said is that Mctominay and the fullbacks have had a bigger impact on our defensive performances. What is so unjustified about saying that?! Lmfao
    Apollo wrote:
    and a lot of it
  • Retro_G
    33020 posts National Team Captain
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    Stupid mistakes leading to goals costing us mate.

    Yep. Maguire hasn't been perfect but he's definitely helped improve us. Hopefully now it looks like Williams has rightfully claimed the LB spot as his own we now have a settled back 4 which will help things even further.

    Maguire brings a calmness, organization to that backline. We seen what happened in the derby when he was missing.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    :lol:
    Apollo wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    I'm anticipating the counter argument so I'm getting ahead of it - Maguire isn't the only one to cause that improvement, AWB and Williams have both helped with that, but the notion you hear a lot on social media and a bit here that Maguire hasn't improved our defence is completely wrong imo. He's definitely helped us improve.

    100000% the fullbacks and McT’s form prior to injury have had a bigger impact than Maguire.

    It's actually quite impressive how you don't see the point I made the other day about you incessantly criticising Maguire. In this case it's not direct criticism but refuting praise, but it's the same premise. It's endless and a lot of it is completely unjustified.

    I didn’t even say anything negative about Maguire. All I said is that Mctominay and the fullbacks have had a bigger impact on our defensive performances. What is so unjustified about saying that?! Lmfao
    Apollo wrote:
    and a lot of it

    What.
  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain


    Sky have just reported that the above has been accepted :o
  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain
  • Ahmer50x
    25773 posts Player of the Year
    Don’t believe Sky.

    That fee is too low.
  • Southgatology
    1549 posts Play-Off Hero
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    AWB: 22
    Lindelof: 25
    Maguire: 26
    Williams: 19

    All young-ish players on long term contracts too :blush:

    Second lowest xGA in the league after Liverpool atm and we're probably 2-3 years from seeing the peak of these guys' careers

    Just laughable that people can’t admit Maguire has improved that defence massively. Yes he was overpriced and not worth £80m but that’s not his problem.

    You guys need to actually watch Maguire sometimes rather than the ball! He instructs players so much on positioning and movement.
  • Southgatology
    1549 posts Play-Off Hero
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Don’t believe Sky.

    That fee is too low.

    Yeah I was going to say that’s an absolute bargain
  • Pxul_
    9905 posts League Winner
    That fee is exactly the same there’s just more in add ons (which I’m assuming will be easy to hit).
  • Teh Zombz
    4567 posts National Call-Up
    he's going to get injured isn't he?
  • UM4R
    4405 posts Moderator
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    AWB: 22
    Lindelof: 25
    Maguire: 26
    Williams: 19

    All young-ish players on long term contracts too :blush:

    Second lowest xGA in the league after Liverpool atm and we're probably 2-3 years from seeing the peak of these guys' careers

    Just laughable that people can’t admit Maguire has improved that defence massively. Yes he was overpriced and not worth £80m but that’s not his problem.

    You guys need to actually watch Maguire sometimes rather than the ball! He instructs players so much on positioning and movement.

    its just a shame about his own positioning and movement. :lol:

    The point is very simple the money we paid, we could've and should've got better . Price is his not his fault, but performance-wise I'm struggling to think of a game where I've thought yeah Maguire is a top level cb
  • Southgatology
    1549 posts Play-Off Hero
    UM4R wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    AWB: 22
    Lindelof: 25
    Maguire: 26
    Williams: 19

    All young-ish players on long term contracts too :blush:

    Second lowest xGA in the league after Liverpool atm and we're probably 2-3 years from seeing the peak of these guys' careers

    Just laughable that people can’t admit Maguire has improved that defence massively. Yes he was overpriced and not worth £80m but that’s not his problem.

    You guys need to actually watch Maguire sometimes rather than the ball! He instructs players so much on positioning and movement.

    its just a shame about his own positioning and movement. :lol:

    The point is very simple the money we paid, we could've and should've got better . Price is his not his fault, but performance-wise I'm struggling to think of a game where I've thought yeah Maguire is a top level cb

    I’m sorry but that is just laughable. As I said earlier just watch Maguire occasionally instead of the ball and you will see what he does.

    And If you think his own positioning and movement is suspect go watch the last two Wolves games and watch how many times he tackles Traore.
  • ComptonLAX94
    3091 posts National Call-Up
    He'll score a Hattrick and they'll demand 29mil more :D
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    edited January 17
    UM4R wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    AWB: 22
    Lindelof: 25
    Maguire: 26
    Williams: 19

    All young-ish players on long term contracts too :blush:

    Second lowest xGA in the league after Liverpool atm and we're probably 2-3 years from seeing the peak of these guys' careers

    Just laughable that people can’t admit Maguire has improved that defence massively. Yes he was overpriced and not worth £80m but that’s not his problem.

    You guys need to actually watch Maguire sometimes rather than the ball! He instructs players so much on positioning and movement.

    its just a shame about his own positioning and movement. :lol:

    The point is very simple the money we paid, we could've and should've got better . Price is his not his fault, but performance-wise I'm struggling to think of a game where I've thought yeah Maguire is a top level cb

    Stop man... it's completely unjustified

    And agree with the last bit he’s honestly have 2-3 great standout games this season for us imho and even then I don’t see a world class CB. I truly don’t get it. I genuinely don’t believe he gets much better than where he’s currently at and he’s not even remotely world class for me
    UM4R wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »

    AWB: 22
    Lindelof: 25
    Maguire: 26
    Williams: 19

    All young-ish players on long term contracts too :blush:

    Second lowest xGA in the league after Liverpool atm and we're probably 2-3 years from seeing the peak of these guys' careers

    Just laughable that people can’t admit Maguire has improved that defence massively. Yes he was overpriced and not worth £80m but that’s not his problem.

    You guys need to actually watch Maguire sometimes rather than the ball! He instructs players so much on positioning and movement.

    its just a shame about his own positioning and movement. :lol:

    The point is very simple the money we paid, we could've and should've got better . Price is his not his fault, but performance-wise I'm struggling to think of a game where I've thought yeah Maguire is a top level cb

    I’m sorry but that is just laughable. As I said earlier just watch Maguire occasionally instead of the ball and you will see what he does.

    And If you think his own positioning and movement is suspect go watch the last two Wolves games and watch how many times he tackles Traore.

    I’m going to post this and just leave it at that on the Maguire situation

    What's laughable is the bias there seems to be towards wanting to paint Maguire as this savior to our backline

    Dude... I watch a lot of our players off the ball and he's right. Maguire has been caught out several times this season... it may not always end up in a negative situation, but we've definitely conceded a couple of goals because he was caught out and was never able to recover, most recent that I can think of off the top of my head is Arsenal when he was the ONLY one that was out of line being about a yard or two behind the rest of the backline. Don't think Maguire had even 1 tackle vs Troare last game, and he had just the one that I recall in the first game after Williams forced Traore to turn away from him right into Maguire. lol. Regardless that's a small sample size when over the course of the season he's been caught out of position several times. Also, I just watched the extended highlights to both those games and it should be noted that not once in any clips have I seen Maguire directing the backline telling them where to position themselves, etc.

    And before you, or the other 3 jump down my throat I'm not excusing Lindelof either, they've both been caught out several times this season. But that leads me to question where this massive impact is that Maguire has supposedly had. Maguire's been dribbled past 5 times this season which is more than the rest of our CB's combined (lindelof hasn't been dribbled past), which were mostly due to his lack of mobility and positioning. The biggest impact that Maguire's had this season is he's good in the air, that's honestly about it. The rest of his defensive game hasn't been any better than what we didn't already have... except for sure Phil Jones.

    The criticism of Maguire isn't anything to do with his price, it's honestly a response of how some of you paint him as the second coming of Ferdinand or anyone of that caliber. I truly don't understand what some of you see in the guy. Again, this isn't me making a case for Lindelof being better than him...neither are good enough for the standards we should be striving for. Both Lindelof and Maguire a few levels below what we should have at the back, what we used to have, and I can honestly see both replaced within the next 3-4 seasons.

    There's the post Apollo wanted to respond to with his previous comment.

    Also in looking at these stats, Fred's been dribbled past 54 times this season.... like wtf lmfao. McT has only been dribbled by 12 times.

  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    If this is true he directly replaces Young’s salary on the books, which is perfect imo. that’s a fair salary for a player of his caliber in today’s inflated market.

  • Ahmer50x
    25773 posts Player of the Year
    Quite happy with those wages.

    No more Alexis’!
  • Apollo
    20659 posts Club Captain
    @XxRichiexRichxX You've said your final piece, I'll add my response and then we can leave it there.
    Apollo wrote:
    and a lot of it is completely unjustified.

    A lot ≠ all of it. He's not above criticism, but a lot of your criticism is unwarranted.

    You are justified in some instances with your criticism because he hasn't been perfect. He has made some mistakes. But as I've said to you before you've wrongly blamed Maguire on several occasions for other defenders in the back line's mistakes, seemingly simply because you don't like him.

    I literally said that AWB and Williams have also contributed to the improvement in defence before you even brought it up, its obvious that they've played a big part. My gripe is with a significant chunk of people on social media and with you and Umar who are underplaying the improvement that having Maguire has made to our defence. He's definitely made the defence better and I'm fed up of him being wrongly called out by some of our fanbase so I'll keep pointing that out when you next criticise him, as that will inevitably happen again.

    In my opinion, personal gripes with not wanting to sign a player should be abandoned the minute the player signs the contract. You didn't want him, that's absolutely fine. But he's a Man Utd player now and the fanbase should be getting behind him. Not trying to pick him apart every game because you didn't want him in the first place.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    33592 posts National Team Captain
    But one bad error vs Watford and we should be looking at benching him apparently. (Not including the “error” that was truly a foul vs Everton)

  • Keano
    17745 posts World Class
    edited January 17
    Maguire has improved the defence alongside AWB and Williams... he isnt a 80m player but he doesnt decide his price and he was an upgrade however much if slight or major over what we had (be it due to injury prone, not good on the ball etc), the defence has improved which is on all of them and the GK.

    Simple as that, now lets not go back and forth as per usual when nobody will change their views.
  • Ahmer50x
    25773 posts Player of the Year
  • Keano
    17745 posts World Class
    Ahmer50x wrote: »

    Also a Saturday... we know business doesn't get sorted on a Saturday here...
  • Pxul_
    9905 posts League Winner
    Keano wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »

    Also a Saturday... we know business doesn't get sorted on a Saturday here...

    Does business get sorted any day here😂
  • Ahmer50x
    25773 posts Player of the Year
    James Maddison remains United’s priority target to play at No10, meaning Fernandes is likely to be deployed as a No8 and pivot alongside Scott McTominay in what would be Solskjaer’s ideal midfield three next season.
    McTominay---Bruno
    Maddison

    That'd be a quality midfield 3 if Bruno adapts well to the league and we can actually do a deal for Madders
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