Manchester United Football Club

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  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Pietu wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    De Gea
    Dalot - Lindelof - Maguire - Wan Bissaka
    McTominay
    Fred - Pogba
    Mata
    Sanchez - Martial

    Gomes and Mata fighting for the 10 spot. Rashford is great in the inside left channel isolating a defender 1v1, but rarely gets that chance, he's pretty ineffectual beyond that. Regardless, that 11 in some form, mixed in with Gomes, Greenwood and Rashford looks pretty good to me. I'd rather just play Wan Bissaka at LB like Azpilicueta used to do, and let Dalot basically play as a winger, especially against defensive teams.

    I am ready to pilloried for that XI, but that combination of players would make me 10x more confident than the crap we saw at the weekend.

    Do you support United?

    Notice how he always avoids this question :lol:

    What's the relevance of the question?

    I mean it’s a pretty simple “yes or no” answer.....

    Not sure. I watch pretty much all their games, tired of them playing crap, but dislike the team and manager so when they lose it's like - 'okay, they're at least one step closer to sacking the manager, getting rid of the vast majority of the not good enough players, and being a team I like again.'

    So your a glory hunter. Got it

    I guess so. I'm more of a football fan than fan of a specific team.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I’d rather Pressy get made captain than ever see Alexis play for United again

    For what reason? Alexis barely played under this apparently expansive new manager, Lingard has played consistently in such a great attacking side that Ole has built, and hasn't scored or assisted this year.

    Everyone in here doesn't want Lingard to start, that's one of the few things Ole has done wrong. But Sanchez shouldn't be at the club and has been absolutely abysmal every chance he has been given, he needs to be sold and Ole is absolutely right to not be playing him. He is finished at this level.

    I'll remember this when he goes to Serie A and starts playing well under a decent manager.

    "But.. but.. but.. Serie A is slower, of course he'll do well! He can't handle the physicality of the Premier League!"

    Yeah, right. Maybe a manager who isn't obsessed with how fast players are might be able to get something out of him. Instead you've got three roadrunners in attacking positions with no ability to retain the ball in tight spaces. Good job!

    I hate to tell you this, but Ole wasn't the manager who signed him and Sanchez was abysmal under Jose as well.

    Just ignore him. He’s got the football IQ of an olive and is best left to himself

    I could say the same to you...

    AWB & Shaw can't cross or dribble 1v1.
    Daniel James & Rashford are terrible at quick interplay in tight spaces.
    Lingard has no eye for a pass and basic technical skills are lacking.
    Ole has only shown he knows how to counter attack to create chances, no idea when you dominate the ball.

    Disagree with any of those?

    I don’t understand why you believe EVERY team HAS to play like Pep’s system to succeed...

    Not every team has to play like Pep's team, but they need some sort of idea in controlled possession, even Klopp doesn't solely rely on counter pressing to create chances. They don't have creative midfielders but they have creative full backs. Ole is happy with having neither!

    But again you’re looking at the top 2 teams currently in the league and suggesting we have to mirror them to succeed...both teams that have “their team” and have had plenty of time to implement their system. Both managers of which struggled throughout their first season with their club...OGS has had half a season and some change. Don’t think any United fan is expecting instant success and recognize it’ll take a little time to iron things out. We know it’s not always going to be pretty. We know there are holes in the squad that need to be fixed and that we need more creative players.

    As for the fullback issue that you love to bang on week in and week out. AWB isn’t the worst crosser, and not the best, but he’s young enough to work on it and improve. Shaw is a pretty damn good crosser. Don’t understand your criticism of Shaw. You seem to be obsessed with his body type more than anything.

    Whatever mate, if you think Shaw is 'a pretty damn good crosser' then there's almost no point. Also, my suggested line-up is nothing like City or Liverpool's set-up, but taking from what the best two teams in the world are doing is probably a good idea.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Apollo wrote: »
    One of the best performances in terms of chance creation against a low block, post-Fergie. Zlatan might've missed a ton of chances, but by god he created loads too.

    At this point you don't even seem to be making a point anymore. Literally everyone in here knows that we struggle breaking down teams that are sat back; no one wants to see Lingard starting at 10 in those games as we all know we need more creativity against these types of teams to break them down. No one is arguing that it was the right decision to start Lingard yesterday.

    For the record, do you actually support United?

    You need to drop more than just Lingard. Mata and Sanchez are both much more adept at unlocking tight defences. Angel Gomes too. Full backs that can cross/dribble also helps, but people are enamoured with Wan Bissaka and Shaw who are both crap at both. Deep midfielders that can commit and dribble past players help too, but Fred is nowhere near the team either. Players like James, Rashford and JLingz are useless in these games and the manager plays them.

    :lol: Mata gets plenty of chances and often goes missing. Sanchez and Fred have had plenty of chances and proven they are just give away machines at this point. Sanchez often forgets he’s an attacker and will frequently drop so deep that he’s running into Pogba.

    Shaw is actually a great crosser and while he’s no Marcelo, he’s a decent dribbler. AWB is a decent dribbler and needs to work on his cross, but he’s no so bad that he needs to be replaced by someone else.
  • Apollo
    14146 posts Has That Special Something
    Apollo wrote: »
    One of the best performances in terms of chance creation against a low block, post-Fergie. Zlatan might've missed a ton of chances, but by god he created loads too.

    At this point you don't even seem to be making a point anymore. Literally everyone in here knows that we struggle breaking down teams that are sat back; no one wants to see Lingard starting at 10 in those games as we all know we need more creativity against these types of teams to break them down. No one is arguing that it was the right decision to start Lingard yesterday.

    For the record, do you actually support United?

    You need to drop more than just Lingard. Mata and Sanchez are both much more adept at unlocking tight defences. Angel Gomes too. Full backs that can cross/dribble also helps, but people are enamoured with Wan Bissaka and Shaw who are both crap at both. Deep midfielders that can commit and dribble past players help too, but Fred is nowhere near the team either. Players like James, Rashford and JLingz are useless in these games and the manager plays them.

    :lol: Mata gets plenty of chances and often goes missing. Sanchez and Fred have had plenty of chances and proven they are just give away machines at this point. Sanchez often forgets he’s an attacker and will frequently drop so deep that he’s running into Pogba.

    Shaw is actually a great crosser and while he’s no Marcelo, he’s a decent dribbler. AWB is a decent dribbler and needs to work on his cross, but he’s no so bad that he needs to be replaced by someone else.

    Okay, whatever you want to tell yourself. Mata, Sanchez and Fred have had plenty of chances and Luke Shaw & Wan Bissaka are good dribblers and crossers.

    and I'm the troll? Delusion like that is why the club has sank into mediocrity.

    Clearly every single United fan in here is wrong and you're the only one capable of forming an accurate assessment of the club's players and playing style. 🙄 The fact that just about every United fan in here, as well as a fair few rival fans, disagree with nearly everything you've said about the club should tell you something about the opinions you're coming out with in here.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I’d rather Pressy get made captain than ever see Alexis play for United again

    For what reason? Alexis barely played under this apparently expansive new manager, Lingard has played consistently in such a great attacking side that Ole has built, and hasn't scored or assisted this year.

    Everyone in here doesn't want Lingard to start, that's one of the few things Ole has done wrong. But Sanchez shouldn't be at the club and has been absolutely abysmal every chance he has been given, he needs to be sold and Ole is absolutely right to not be playing him. He is finished at this level.

    I'll remember this when he goes to Serie A and starts playing well under a decent manager.

    "But.. but.. but.. Serie A is slower, of course he'll do well! He can't handle the physicality of the Premier League!"

    Yeah, right. Maybe a manager who isn't obsessed with how fast players are might be able to get something out of him. Instead you've got three roadrunners in attacking positions with no ability to retain the ball in tight spaces. Good job!

    I hate to tell you this, but Ole wasn't the manager who signed him and Sanchez was abysmal under Jose as well.

    Just ignore him. He’s got the football IQ of an olive and is best left to himself

    I could say the same to you...

    AWB & Shaw can't cross or dribble 1v1.
    Daniel James & Rashford are terrible at quick interplay in tight spaces.
    Lingard has no eye for a pass and basic technical skills are lacking.
    Ole has only shown he knows how to counter attack to create chances, no idea when you dominate the ball.

    Disagree with any of those?

    I don’t understand why you believe EVERY team HAS to play like Pep’s system to succeed...

    Not every team has to play like Pep's team, but they need some sort of idea in controlled possession, even Klopp doesn't solely rely on counter pressing to create chances. They don't have creative midfielders but they have creative full backs. Ole is happy with having neither!

    But again you’re looking at the top 2 teams currently in the league and suggesting we have to mirror them to succeed...both teams that have “their team” and have had plenty of time to implement their system. Both managers of which struggled throughout their first season with their club...OGS has had half a season and some change. Don’t think any United fan is expecting instant success and recognize it’ll take a little time to iron things out. We know it’s not always going to be pretty. We know there are holes in the squad that need to be fixed and that we need more creative players.

    As for the fullback issue that you love to bang on week in and week out. AWB isn’t the worst crosser, and not the best, but he’s young enough to work on it and improve. Shaw is a pretty damn good crosser. Don’t understand your criticism of Shaw. You seem to be obsessed with his body type more than anything.

    Whatever mate, if you think Shaw is 'a pretty damn good crosser' then there's almost no point. Also, my suggested line-up is nothing like City or Liverpool's set-up, but taking from what the best two teams in the world are doing is probably a good idea.

    Lmao. You commented in the last page [once again] comparing him to the LFC pair by basically saying their crosses are better because “they have more whip”...wasn’t aware there is just 1 way to cross a ball.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited August 26
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    I’d rather Pressy get made captain than ever see Alexis play for United again

    For what reason? Alexis barely played under this apparently expansive new manager, Lingard has played consistently in such a great attacking side that Ole has built, and hasn't scored or assisted this year.

    Everyone in here doesn't want Lingard to start, that's one of the few things Ole has done wrong. But Sanchez shouldn't be at the club and has been absolutely abysmal every chance he has been given, he needs to be sold and Ole is absolutely right to not be playing him. He is finished at this level.

    I'll remember this when he goes to Serie A and starts playing well under a decent manager.

    "But.. but.. but.. Serie A is slower, of course he'll do well! He can't handle the physicality of the Premier League!"

    Yeah, right. Maybe a manager who isn't obsessed with how fast players are might be able to get something out of him. Instead you've got three roadrunners in attacking positions with no ability to retain the ball in tight spaces. Good job!

    I hate to tell you this, but Ole wasn't the manager who signed him and Sanchez was abysmal under Jose as well.

    Just ignore him. He’s got the football IQ of an olive and is best left to himself

    I could say the same to you...

    AWB & Shaw can't cross or dribble 1v1.
    Daniel James & Rashford are terrible at quick interplay in tight spaces.
    Lingard has no eye for a pass and basic technical skills are lacking.
    Ole has only shown he knows how to counter attack to create chances, no idea when you dominate the ball.

    Disagree with any of those?

    I don’t understand why you believe EVERY team HAS to play like Pep’s system to succeed...

    Not every team has to play like Pep's team, but they need some sort of idea in controlled possession, even Klopp doesn't solely rely on counter pressing to create chances. They don't have creative midfielders but they have creative full backs. Ole is happy with having neither!

    But again you’re looking at the top 2 teams currently in the league and suggesting we have to mirror them to succeed...both teams that have “their team” and have had plenty of time to implement their system. Both managers of which struggled throughout their first season with their club...OGS has had half a season and some change. Don’t think any United fan is expecting instant success and recognize it’ll take a little time to iron things out. We know it’s not always going to be pretty. We know there are holes in the squad that need to be fixed and that we need more creative players.

    As for the fullback issue that you love to bang on week in and week out. AWB isn’t the worst crosser, and not the best, but he’s young enough to work on it and improve. Shaw is a pretty damn good crosser. Don’t understand your criticism of Shaw. You seem to be obsessed with his body type more than anything.

    Whatever mate, if you think Shaw is 'a pretty damn good crosser' then there's almost no point. Also, my suggested line-up is nothing like City or Liverpool's set-up, but taking from what the best two teams in the world are doing is probably a good idea.

    Lmao. You commented in the last page [once again] comparing him to the LFC pair by basically saying their crosses are better because “they have more whip”...wasn’t aware there is just 1 way to cross a ball.

    There isn't one way to cross a ball, Jordi Alba doesn't really whip his crosses much, instead he's incredibly accurate at finding people in the box with a pass along the groudn, Shaw isn't good at that either. He gets the ball out wide, takes a touch, then either takes one touch out to his left and tries to fire it through the defender which rarely works but gets a lot of corners (which are never scored), or he just turns back and passes inside. He's absolutely useless. He makes about 2 over/underlapping runs a game, so he'll occasionally get into good positions and gets assists, but nowhere near regularly enough.
  • Couchy
    9505 posts League Winner
    Pietu wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    De Gea
    Dalot - Lindelof - Maguire - Wan Bissaka
    McTominay
    Fred - Pogba
    Mata
    Sanchez - Martial

    Gomes and Mata fighting for the 10 spot. Rashford is great in the inside left channel isolating a defender 1v1, but rarely gets that chance, he's pretty ineffectual beyond that. Regardless, that 11 in some form, mixed in with Gomes, Greenwood and Rashford looks pretty good to me. I'd rather just play Wan Bissaka at LB like Azpilicueta used to do, and let Dalot basically play as a winger, especially against defensive teams.

    I am ready to pilloried for that XI, but that combination of players would make me 10x more confident than the crap we saw at the weekend.

    Do you support United?

    Notice how he always avoids this question :lol:

    What's the relevance of the question?

    I mean it’s a pretty simple “yes or no” answer.....

    Not sure. I watch pretty much all their games, tired of them playing crap, but dislike the team and manager so when they lose it's like - 'okay, they're at least one step closer to sacking the manager, getting rid of the vast majority of the not good enough players, and being a team I like again.'

    So your a glory hunter. Got it

    I guess so. I'm more of a football fan than fan of a specific team.

    Perhaps people will realise now your opinion is worth nothing to actual football fans.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Yep, you heard it here first guys. Robertson and Trent aren't actually that good at crossing the ball, they just put lots of crosses in so of course they will get assists! Nothing to do with the types of crosses they put in or the area they put them into, it's just volume! Let's forget about Liverpool, what about Kimmich, is he a good crosser is he just volume? Do tell! I think it's because quite often his crosses are whipped in with a lot of pace into areas where the keeper doesn't feel like he can come out for it and defenders are scared to touch it, but maybe it's just the volume of crosses instead!

    What a moronic statement, and I apologise in advance for saying that, but I really can't articulate how braindead I think that argument is, in any other way.

    Again... I never said they are bad crossers... that was addresses your "finding a player" statement. So keep on twisting words.

    But if they don't consistently find a player, why are they good crossers? It's because of the types of cross they put in, the types of cross that are hard to defend and will eventually yield results. Certain crosses are better than others, so being able to cross it like Kimmich, Trent, Mendy is a very valuable weapon offensively, Man Utd have one of those players in Dalot, but he was replaced for a baby Giraffe!
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Yep, you heard it here first guys. Robertson and Trent aren't actually that good at crossing the ball, they just put lots of crosses in so of course they will get assists! Nothing to do with the types of crosses they put in or the area they put them into, it's just volume! Let's forget about Liverpool, what about Kimmich, is he a good crosser is he just volume? Do tell! I think it's because quite often his crosses are whipped in with a lot of pace into areas where the keeper doesn't feel like he can come out for it and defenders are scared to touch it, but maybe it's just the volume of crosses instead!

    What a moronic statement, and I apologise in advance for saying that, but I really can't articulate how braindead I think that argument is, in any other way.

    Again... I never said they are bad crossers... that was addresses your "finding a player" statement. So keep on twisting words.

    But if they don't consistently find a player, why are they good crossers? It's because of the types of cross they put in, the types of cross that are hard to defend and will eventually yield results. Certain crosses are better than others, so being able to cross it like Kimmich, Trent, Mendy is a very valuable weapon offensively, Man Utd have one of those players in Dalot, but he was replaced for a baby Giraffe!

    I think it's pretty clear from this season that spamming crosses from the fullbacks aren't a priority. See my previous comment regarding the fact that it's less about the fullbacks being in a position to cross, and more about the wingers sitting on the line to receive the ball and they are often the ones doing the crossing.

    But again, you're suggesting ultimately that we have to mirror LFC or City to succeed. That's what you're hung up on at the end of the day. Not everyone has to spam crosses in from fullbacks the way LFC do to succeed. Hell City don't even do that and they succeed due to the number of creative players they have in the midfield and the attack. We've already stated repeatedly that we lack that and it remains to be addressed. Again, United fans don't expect instant success. We know top 4 isn't a guarantee and it requires work.

    But your Football Manager suggestion is hardly the answer. Sanchez, Mata, and Fred have had more than enough chances to have an impact and cement their spots in the starting 11 and have all ultimately proven not good enough.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Back on it with the Fred, Sanchez and Mata have had 'more than enough chances' yet other players are allowed to play equally as bad, more often, and it's fine. Also, I wasn't aware having good crossers out wide was exclusive to Liverpool.

    You can hang on your hat on technically limited players Rashford, James, Lingard, McTominay, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Pereira, but time will in all likelihood prove me right.
  • HysxteriA
    3201 posts National Call-Up
    Still think some points raised by Norwich are fairly valid although some a bit far fetched. I'm a united fan and I do fully agree with the mediocrity point. I'm a united supported and have been since I was in nappies. The team is a far cry of top 4 and I don't think we will get that this season unless Gomes is brought in.

    Ole is insistent on playing lingard as our number 10 (who has 2 assists for the calender year btw) and refuses to acknowledge the fact that pace is not the answer to teams like palace and wolves.

    We have zero creativity up top and lingard is laughable. Watching him run around like a headless chicken all game makes me shout at the TV to be frank.

    We need intelligent players, and we have one, pogba. Work ethic can only get you so far which again, Ole seems to be banging on about. We have a serious lack of quality in the team.

    The defence is better granted. But again, DDG is still making silly errors as shown in the palace game.

    I'm happy with Martials work ethic and his overall performances he's been a breath of fresh air in comparison to last season.

    Rashford is just same old Rashford taking ridiculous free kicks and shooting from any angle he can. It's annoying to watch at times. But I think that may show the frustration on his part from the lack of penetration we have for teams that sit back.

    Graham S made this point on Sky a while back against teams sitting back we will struggle against and he was absolutely right.

    I question Ole's squad selections more than anything. Not having Gomes on the bench is an absolute joke. But then to use lingard as a 10 is even worse. He's matured and reached his potential which lets be honest would actually struggle getting in mid table team like Ham, Wolves or Everton.

    Bottom line:
    We aren't good enough. Nothing during the transfer window has given me any confidence things will change due to Judge and Woodward and the overall mentality from the board. Oles decision making is questionable, he's not tactically good enough to be challenging Pep, Klopp and Poch. I'm confident we won't get top 4. Which means no champions League again, which then means Pogba will most likely want out. And players also less attracted to the club. We aren't going on the right direction. This wasn't the rebuild that was promised and as much as I worship Ole, I don't think he is the man to be challenging for titles.

    The biggest thing for me through all of this is why the HELL is Gomes not used after repeatedly bad performances from all our number 10's.
  • ViVaWhom
    7846 posts League Winner
    HysxteriA wrote: »
    The team is a far cry of top 4.

    this i can not agree with AT ALL, we are far cry from top 2 thats for sure but not top 4
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Yeah the Gomes thing is baffling. I love Mata and think he's still good enough but Gomes I think can be better. I think he looks much more ready than Greenwood. Ole commenting on his size at the back end of last season just made me roll my eyes at the old fashioned manager it seems United have appointed.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    HysxteriA wrote: »
    The team is a far cry of top 4.

    this i can not agree with AT ALL, we are far cry from top 2 thats for sure but not top 4

    Arsenal will be at least 7-8 points clear of you this season, probably more, imo. Depends far away you consider that many points to be.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Back on it with the Fred, Sanchez and Mata have had 'more than enough chances' yet other players are allowed to play equally as bad, more often, and it's fine. Also, I wasn't aware having good crossers out wide was exclusive to Liverpool.

    You can hang on your hat on technically limited players Rashford, James, Lingard, McTominay, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Pereira, but time will in all likelihood prove me right.

    Because at the end of the day, those "equally as bad, more often, and it's fine" (even though it's not true) players that you speak of have delivered more, have been more effective, etc more often than the players you are banging on about.

    And again, never said having good crossers was exclusive to LFC, we do have pretty good crossers of the ball, they just aren't with our fullbacks like you keep banging on about how they should be.

    And Rashford has a role on a winger and I've said all summer long he's best on the wing. James shouldn't be starting and I think most every fan in here and said that he's not ready to start and we still hope to bring in another winger next summer. Lingard again every fan has said shouldn't be starting. McTominay- a few of us have said he's the easiest midfielder to replace next season. AWB - more than happy there. Pereira-isn't even a starter atm.
  • Apollo
    14146 posts Has That Special Something
    edited August 26
    @HysxteriA No one is disputing the Lingard point and we've all been saying it for a while. We need the extra creativity at 10 and Lingard doesn't provide it. In tricky away games where we need to play on the counter I could understand the logic for picking him, but in games against teams who we know are going to sit back we need creativity to break them down and that's not Lingard. He's only tried Lingard there so far. Ole needs to pick someone else at 10, we all want to see Gomes but even Pereira is more creative than Lingard and would be an improvement. Any of the alternatives would give us some much needed creativity to help Pogba. Hopefully Gomes comes through asap but until he does Ole needs to pick one of Pereira or Mata.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Back on it with the Fred, Sanchez and Mata have had 'more than enough chances' yet other players are allowed to play equally as bad, more often, and it's fine. Also, I wasn't aware having good crossers out wide was exclusive to Liverpool.

    You can hang on your hat on technically limited players Rashford, James, Lingard, McTominay, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Pereira, but time will in all likelihood prove me right.

    Because at the end of the day, those "equally as bad, more often, and it's fine" (even though it's not true) players that you speak of have delivered more, have been more effective, etc more often than the players you are banging on about.

    And again, never said having good crossers was exclusive to LFC, we do have pretty good crossers of the ball, they just aren't with our fullbacks like you keep banging on about how they should be.

    And Rashford has a role on a winger and I've said all summer long he's best on the wing. James shouldn't be starting and I think most every fan in here and said that he's not ready to start and we still hope to bring in another winger next summer. Lingard again every fan has said shouldn't be starting. McTominay- a few of us have said he's the easiest midfielder to replace next season. AWB - more than happy there. Pereira-isn't even a starter atm.

    Rashford, Martial and Lingard were absolutely as useless as Mata and Sanchez were at the end of last season. Martial and Lingard were more in & out because of injuries, but Sanchez & Mata were also in and out of the team. Then everyone likes to say Rashford was playing injured, yet no real mention of it by the manager or player, it just sounds like an excuse for him playing terribly tbh. Fred was also pretty good against PSG and was dropped soon after, and has been barely used by Ole at all.

    Also, you only have two good crossers imo, Rashford and Dalot
  • Apollo
    14146 posts Has That Special Something
    Back on it with the Fred, Sanchez and Mata have had 'more than enough chances' yet other players are allowed to play equally as bad, more often, and it's fine. Also, I wasn't aware having good crossers out wide was exclusive to Liverpool.

    You can hang on your hat on technically limited players Rashford, James, Lingard, McTominay, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Pereira, but time will in all likelihood prove me right.

    Because at the end of the day, those "equally as bad, more often, and it's fine" (even though it's not true) players that you speak of have delivered more, have been more effective, etc more often than the players you are banging on about.

    And again, never said having good crossers was exclusive to LFC, we do have pretty good crossers of the ball, they just aren't with our fullbacks like you keep banging on about how they should be.

    And Rashford has a role on a winger and I've said all summer long he's best on the wing. James shouldn't be starting and I think most every fan in here and said that he's not ready to start and we still hope to bring in another winger next summer. Lingard again every fan has said shouldn't be starting. McTominay- a few of us have said he's the easiest midfielder to replace next season. AWB - more than happy there. Pereira-isn't even a starter atm.

    It's really not worth arguing the point anymore @XxRichiexRichxX . It's not getting us anywhere
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    I think we are all frustrated by some of the personnel choices. Gomes should at least be on the bench. Hopefully whenever he does get his chance he locks it down.

    And I don’t disagree with everything Mark says, but there’s a lot he spouts that are just extreme.

    And I agree I don’t think Top 4 is a far cry, but it won’t be easy either. Can’t have a repeat of the goalless nonsense at the end of the last season. Have to be more clinical. I still believe Greenwood would be our best number 9. Martial’s played well tbf though. And Gomes has to lock down the number 10 or at the very least Pereira. Both would offer more than Lingard.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Thoughts on this?

    2018/19
    Games in which Mata started or played more than 60 mins:
    P17 W10 D6 L1
    PpG- 2.12

    Games where neither Mata started nor played 60 mins:
    P21 W9 D3 L9
    PpG- 1.43

    Under Ole Last season
    Games in which Mata started or played more than 60 mins:
    P9 W5 D4 L0
    PpG- 2.11

    Games where neither Mata started nor played 60 mins:
    P12 W7 D0 L5
    PpG- 1.75

    Vs Top 6 sides last season
    Games in which Mata started or played more than 60 mins:
    P3 W0 D3 L0
    PpG- 1

    Games where neither Mata started nor played 60 mins:
    P7 W1 D1 L5
    PpG- 0.57

    Vs All Other sides last season
    Games in which Mata started or played more than 60 mins:
    P14 W10 D3 L1
    PpG- 2.36

    Games where neither Mata started nor played 60 mins:
    P14 W8 D2 L4
    PpG- 1.86

    Season before that:
    With Mata-
    P23 W17 D3 L3
    PpG- 2.35

    Without Mata
    P15 W8 D3 L4
    PpG- 1.8


    Saw it on Redcafe. Interesting...
  • Apollo
    14146 posts Has That Special Something
    edited August 26
    Actually, **** it.
    Then everyone likes to say Rashford was playing injured, yet no real mention of it by the manager or player, it just sounds like an excuse for him playing terribly tbh.

    Utter BS. You want a mention of it by the manager or player. Here's the injury that started it:
    Ole Gunnar Solskjaer questioned Liverpool’s tactics towards Manchester United forward Marcus Rashford as the England international suffered an ankle injury that will sideline him for the visit to Crystal Palace on Wednesday.

    The United star was one of a number of casualties as Solskjaer was forced to use all three of his substitutes in the opening 42 minutes, the first time since 2015 that has happened in a Premier League game.

    Rashford actually completed the full 90 minutes although his manager later admitted he should have taken him off first, before Ander Herrera, Juan Mata and substitute Jesse Lingard were all forced off through injuries.

    “I think you can’t say ‘targeted’ but you can say there were quite a few fouls on him, definitely,” said Solskjaer.

    “And normally I would take him off after five minutes, because whoever it was went straight through him. His ankle blew up straight away but he wanted to run it off.

    “And then I couldn't take him off with Juan and Jesse going off, so we're hoping he's not done too much damage.”

    ...with the additional three players lost in the first half – plus Rashford already rated doubtful – Solskjaer may conceivably have lost half a dozen players for midweek.

    “Rashy was kicked in the ankle and did it straight away. We should have taken him off straight away, so we were playing with 10 and half but the atmosphere made up for it, and Rashy's attitude made up for it as well.

    That is the injury that he was carrying for ages afterwards.
    Rashford, Martial and Lingard were absolutely as useless as Mata and Sanchez were at the end of last season. Martial and Lingard were more in & out because of injuries, but Sanchez & Mata were also in and out of the team.

    You want proof about the lack of fitness at the end of last season. Lets see what Rashford himself has to say about the squads **** fitness levels because of Mourinho compared to now under Ole.
    Sky Sports wrote:
    Rashford insists that, after a pre-season without a major tournament for most of the squad, the players' fitness is far better than it was at this stage last year, and that the team have taken strides in terms of training intensity.

    "It's been good. It's been tough, but as a team I feel we've taken a lot of strides forward, so it's been worth it."

    Asked how the pre-season differs to that under Mourinho, Rashford said: "I'd say the intensity change, from how we were towards the end of last season, to where we are now. It's so clear to see the difference in terms of intensity, especially without the ball. That's where we've taken a lot of strides forward.

    "It definitely feels different. For starters, physically we're at a much better position than we were this time last year, going into the season. We're already three or four steps ahead of where we were last season, and now it's about putting the fundamentals down about how we're going to play."

    The squad having **** fitness levels because of Mourinho caused the injury problems after a couple of months of Ole's much higher fitness demands for pressing the opposition. He had to abandon the press altogether because of it. He spent the summer sorting out the squad's fitness so it doesn't happen again, and has been very publicly documented by several players and the manager. The increased fitness is clear to see on the pitch.

    That and the injury problems are the reasons why the squad's levels dropped off at the end of the season. Sanchez however was very consistent whenever he played. He was consistently abysmal under both Mourinho and Ole and needs to be moved on.

    You're twisting facts to fit your agenda about Ole, the fitness problems affecting performances, and Sanchez. The evidence is undeniable and clear to see. Can this just be ended now rather than continuing this farce. It's ridiculous.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Back on it with the Fred, Sanchez and Mata have had 'more than enough chances' yet other players are allowed to play equally as bad, more often, and it's fine. Also, I wasn't aware having good crossers out wide was exclusive to Liverpool.

    You can hang on your hat on technically limited players Rashford, James, Lingard, McTominay, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Pereira, but time will in all likelihood prove me right.

    Because at the end of the day, those "equally as bad, more often, and it's fine" (even though it's not true) players that you speak of have delivered more, have been more effective, etc more often than the players you are banging on about.

    And again, never said having good crossers was exclusive to LFC, we do have pretty good crossers of the ball, they just aren't with our fullbacks like you keep banging on about how they should be.

    And Rashford has a role on a winger and I've said all summer long he's best on the wing. James shouldn't be starting and I think most every fan in here and said that he's not ready to start and we still hope to bring in another winger next summer. Lingard again every fan has said shouldn't be starting. McTominay- a few of us have said he's the easiest midfielder to replace next season. AWB - more than happy there. Pereira-isn't even a starter atm.

    Rashford, Martial and Lingard were absolutely as useless as Mata and Sanchez were at the end of last season. Martial and Lingard were more in & out because of injuries, but Sanchez & Mata were also in and out of the team. Then everyone likes to say Rashford was playing injured, yet no real mention of it by the manager or player, it just sounds like an excuse for him playing terribly tbh. Fred was also pretty good against PSG and was dropped soon after, and has been barely used by Ole at all.

    Also, you only have two good crossers imo, Rashford and Dalot

    Exactly all of them got their chances during the awful run of performances last season and as you said they were all equally as bad, but yet Martial, Rashford, etc all still delivered prior to the bad run of the games while Sanchez and Mata failed to take advantage of the others bad form...so why should they be starting over the guys that actually produced something before the bad run?

    Fred was good against PSG and dropped after because the guy constantly gave away possession. His passing and ball control were among the worst of our midfielders and no doubt gave the ball away more than any of our current midfielders. Also, OGS said a few days ago he’s expecting a “big season” from Fred, so he’ll no doubt continue to get his chances.

  • Shshj
    3929 posts National Call-Up
    This isn't meant as bait, but just out of interest. If Ole was to go now, who would you want United to go for?
  • Pughy30
    25591 posts Player of the Year
    Imagine Poch would be the bookies favourite if Ole was sacked today
  • Pietu
    1759 posts Play-Off Hero
    He is just a Sanchez and Jose fan. I don't know if you lot watch Sky Sports on YouTube but he reminds me of this AdvancedEdition dude who on every United video last season said how Jose is the answer and how bar from Alexis there isn't any quality and then once he got sacked he thought you would fall out of top 6 and then went quiet once you actually played better under Ole. Wouldn't surprise me if he was the same dude.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31653 posts National Team Captain
    Shshj wrote: »
    This isn't meant as bait, but just out of interest. If Ole was to go now, who would you want United to go for?

    Poch or Blanc for me.
  • Keano
    12682 posts Has That Special Something
    Shshj wrote: »
    This isn't meant as bait, but just out of interest. If Ole was to go now, who would you want United to go for?

    No clue tbh, Poch could be persuaded *if* he had the say on transfers as he seems to be intent on trying to fight Levy over it which I get... but overall I think the Poch stuff would've happened in the summer if it was to happen, can't see him coming in the next 2-3 years now, he'll be snapped up elsewhere if Levy isn't careful.
  • MarkFromNorwich
    2931 posts Fans' Favourite
    Yes, he got kicked against Liverpool, wasn't aware that this one knock was the reason for the next 3 months of poor form (no mention of him carrying an injury in those next three months).

    Oh, and a player praises new manager that consistently plays him, what a surprise! Also, what does fitness have to do with being able to break teams down when you're dominating possession? Why has this problem already shown itself three games into the new season where United struggled to break down low block defences despite the fitness work?

    The last two performances are eerily reminiscent of last season's performances, the fitness obviously isn't to blame, so what is?
  • Keano
    12682 posts Has That Special Something
    Yes, he got kicked against Liverpool, wasn't aware that this one knock was the reason for the next 3 months of poor form (no mention of him carrying an injury in those next three months).

    Oh, and a player praises new manager that consistently plays him, what a surprise! Also, what does fitness have to do with being able to break teams down when you're dominating possession? Why has this problem already shown itself three games into the new season where United struggled to break down low block defences despite the fitness work?

    The last two performances are eerily reminiscent of last season's performances, the fitness obviously isn't to blame, so what is?

    The point is on the Rashford praising the new manager... is that his word means 1000x more than yours or mine & is more solid to be used as "proof" than me, you, @Apollo or anyone else spouting what we think as if it's fact.
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