Manchester United Football Club

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  • Ahmer50x
    17103 posts World Class
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Let's face it, any fan of the club the player is at will be bias towards them, any other fan won't be & will be bias the other way. You can't judge a player on 1 game in a league, he can show signs of being amazing, but if the consistency isn't there, then he'll be an average player/squad player. Reason Maguire/Pepe are different is Maguire has played in the Prem at Hull & Leicester beforehand.... Pepe hasn't. Not to say maguire won't flop in a diferent system/team, but there is evidence of how he handles the league/players in that league & such.

    Rashford isn't an elite talent off of what basis? Sure his dribbling isn't on Martials level, but at the same time he's 21... has more goals than some great strikers at his age & is leading the line (along with Martial) but United, a lot of other 21 year olds who're considered to be great for the future are still in their u23s or on the bench 80% of the time.

    Rashfords consistency is an issue at times, but the end of last season he was playing game after game with a knock, that's why i won't judge him on that... anyone else tried playing on when you're injured & mentally you know you are? it's awful.

    Either way I hope Rashford & Martial both do well, they're both elite in their own right, Martial has what Rashford doesn't & vise versa, it could be a great partnership if they can link up properly.

    Put so many points across so well.

    A question for you, does Rashford get in a league winning side at City or Liverpool? Absolutely not. Which is my point, for me to be truly elite you’re in that upper bracket of players who are helping teams win titles. Look at Sterling for example.

    Rashford in my opinion will never be striker who wins you a title, think about RVP for example. Literally elite at everything, Rashford has inconsistent finishing, doesn’t head the ball and I don’t particularly rate his dribbling.

    That’s why I don’t think he’ll ever be elite, for me Martial has all the tools to become elite as a number 9.

    It’s bizarre people think I’m just bashing united players when I’m singing Martial and Greenwood’s praises :lol: jeeez.

    Rashford is 21. You act like he's in his prime with your comparisons, you can't possible compare Rashford to RVP at his peak, Rashford has years to develop before you can even bring him into a comparison like that. He has plenty of time to improve and has already proven that he can score goals in the Premier League and against top teams. He's only going to get better and is likely to get his best goal return this season under Ole if he stays fit, who is building his attack around him and Martial. Not many players out there are good enough that a manager is prepared to build their attack around them at such a young age.

    Rashford has more Prem goals by age 21 than RvP had by age 25.

    Not very fair to compare an injury ridden season with one who’s had 0 injury problems.

    Rashford’s goal scoring is mid table striker level for United despite consistently getting 1600+ minutes per season. RVP in an injury ridden season scored more than Rashford ever has in a single season.

    In my opinion Martial scores more league goals than Rashford this season and Rashford doesn’t get above 15 league goals.

    Rashford is playing on the wing this season in Ole's 4231. Martial is leading the line, him scoring more goals than Rashford is expected when he's the one playing as the striker.

    They rotated a lot. I watched the highlights back and in the first half Rashford was so lazy tracking back. Specifically when Chelsea put a couple balls into the box from the right and almost scored from them.

    Ole said it was tactical. Rashford was told to stay high and not cover too much so enable the rapid counters. Worked a treat.
  • TakeItSlow
    7088 posts Big Money Move
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Let's face it, any fan of the club the player is at will be bias towards them, any other fan won't be & will be bias the other way. You can't judge a player on 1 game in a league, he can show signs of being amazing, but if the consistency isn't there, then he'll be an average player/squad player. Reason Maguire/Pepe are different is Maguire has played in the Prem at Hull & Leicester beforehand.... Pepe hasn't. Not to say maguire won't flop in a diferent system/team, but there is evidence of how he handles the league/players in that league & such.

    Rashford isn't an elite talent off of what basis? Sure his dribbling isn't on Martials level, but at the same time he's 21... has more goals than some great strikers at his age & is leading the line (along with Martial) but United, a lot of other 21 year olds who're considered to be great for the future are still in their u23s or on the bench 80% of the time.

    Rashfords consistency is an issue at times, but the end of last season he was playing game after game with a knock, that's why i won't judge him on that... anyone else tried playing on when you're injured & mentally you know you are? it's awful.

    Either way I hope Rashford & Martial both do well, they're both elite in their own right, Martial has what Rashford doesn't & vise versa, it could be a great partnership if they can link up properly.

    Put so many points across so well.

    A question for you, does Rashford get in a league winning side at City or Liverpool? Absolutely not. Which is my point, for me to be truly elite you’re in that upper bracket of players who are helping teams win titles. Look at Sterling for example.

    Rashford in my opinion will never be striker who wins you a title, think about RVP for example. Literally elite at everything, Rashford has inconsistent finishing, doesn’t head the ball and I don’t particularly rate his dribbling.

    That’s why I don’t think he’ll ever be elite, for me Martial has all the tools to become elite as a number 9.

    It’s bizarre people think I’m just bashing united players when I’m singing Martial and Greenwood’s praises :lol: jeeez.

    Rashford is 21. You act like he's in his prime with your comparisons, you can't possible compare Rashford to RVP at his peak, Rashford has years to develop before you can even bring him into a comparison like that. He has plenty of time to improve and has already proven that he can score goals in the Premier League and against top teams. He's only going to get better and is likely to get his best goal return this season under Ole if he stays fit, who is building his attack around him and Martial. Not many players out there are good enough that a manager is prepared to build their attack around them at such a young age.

    Rashford has more Prem goals by age 21 than RvP had by age 25.

    Not very fair to compare an injury ridden season with one who’s had 0 injury problems.

    Rashford’s goal scoring is mid table striker level for United despite consistently getting 1600+ minutes per season. RVP in an injury ridden season scored more than Rashford ever has in a single season.

    In my opinion Martial scores more league goals than Rashford this season and Rashford doesn’t get above 15 league goals.

    Rashford is playing on the wing this season in Ole's 4231. Martial is leading the line, him scoring more goals than Rashford is expected when he's the one playing as the striker.

    They rotated a lot. I watched the highlights back and in the first half Rashford was so lazy tracking back. Specifically when Chelsea put a couple balls into the box from the right and almost scored from them.

    Ole said it was tactical. Rashford was told to stay high and not cover too much so enable the rapid counters. Worked a treat.

    Really?! Could’ve conceded 2 goals by doing that. I’m surprised he actually did that, not sure if that shows inept tactical knowledge. We’ll see in the coming weeks.
  • Ahmer50x
    17103 posts World Class
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Let's face it, any fan of the club the player is at will be bias towards them, any other fan won't be & will be bias the other way. You can't judge a player on 1 game in a league, he can show signs of being amazing, but if the consistency isn't there, then he'll be an average player/squad player. Reason Maguire/Pepe are different is Maguire has played in the Prem at Hull & Leicester beforehand.... Pepe hasn't. Not to say maguire won't flop in a diferent system/team, but there is evidence of how he handles the league/players in that league & such.

    Rashford isn't an elite talent off of what basis? Sure his dribbling isn't on Martials level, but at the same time he's 21... has more goals than some great strikers at his age & is leading the line (along with Martial) but United, a lot of other 21 year olds who're considered to be great for the future are still in their u23s or on the bench 80% of the time.

    Rashfords consistency is an issue at times, but the end of last season he was playing game after game with a knock, that's why i won't judge him on that... anyone else tried playing on when you're injured & mentally you know you are? it's awful.

    Either way I hope Rashford & Martial both do well, they're both elite in their own right, Martial has what Rashford doesn't & vise versa, it could be a great partnership if they can link up properly.

    Put so many points across so well.

    A question for you, does Rashford get in a league winning side at City or Liverpool? Absolutely not. Which is my point, for me to be truly elite you’re in that upper bracket of players who are helping teams win titles. Look at Sterling for example.

    Rashford in my opinion will never be striker who wins you a title, think about RVP for example. Literally elite at everything, Rashford has inconsistent finishing, doesn’t head the ball and I don’t particularly rate his dribbling.

    That’s why I don’t think he’ll ever be elite, for me Martial has all the tools to become elite as a number 9.

    It’s bizarre people think I’m just bashing united players when I’m singing Martial and Greenwood’s praises :lol: jeeez.

    Rashford is 21. You act like he's in his prime with your comparisons, you can't possible compare Rashford to RVP at his peak, Rashford has years to develop before you can even bring him into a comparison like that. He has plenty of time to improve and has already proven that he can score goals in the Premier League and against top teams. He's only going to get better and is likely to get his best goal return this season under Ole if he stays fit, who is building his attack around him and Martial. Not many players out there are good enough that a manager is prepared to build their attack around them at such a young age.

    Rashford has more Prem goals by age 21 than RvP had by age 25.

    Not very fair to compare an injury ridden season with one who’s had 0 injury problems.

    Rashford’s goal scoring is mid table striker level for United despite consistently getting 1600+ minutes per season. RVP in an injury ridden season scored more than Rashford ever has in a single season.

    In my opinion Martial scores more league goals than Rashford this season and Rashford doesn’t get above 15 league goals.

    Rashford is playing on the wing this season in Ole's 4231. Martial is leading the line, him scoring more goals than Rashford is expected when he's the one playing as the striker.

    They rotated a lot. I watched the highlights back and in the first half Rashford was so lazy tracking back. Specifically when Chelsea put a couple balls into the box from the right and almost scored from them.

    Ole said it was tactical. Rashford was told to stay high and not cover too much so enable the rapid counters. Worked a treat.

    Really?! Could’ve conceded 2 goals by doing that. I’m surprised he actually did that, not sure if that shows inept tactical knowledge. We’ll see in the coming weeks.

    I probably agree that it was somewhat reckless but he called it "risk and reward football" and we won 4-0 so hard to complain.

    Certainly beats Mourinho asking Rashford and Lingard to play as auxiliary wingbacks in a back 7 :joy:
  • Keano
    12647 posts Has That Special Something
    Risk vs reward, this time it paid off, it may not next time but thats the whole point of it, play riskier to give yourself a chance at getting an easier/quicker goal.
  • Wyojasond
    11116 posts Has That Special Something
    Couchy wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Welcome back @Couchy i'm sure it'll be fun with the state this thread gets in seeing you get involved :trollface:.

    I’m a changed man @Keano. I’m just here to talk some football :sweat_smile:

    tenor.gif?itemid=8145440
  • Sellish
    8855 posts League Winner
    edited August 13
    Retro_G wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    <3 Everyone who thought Maguire was an awful signing are going to look stupid come the end of the season, if he can keep this form going.


    Who thought he was an awful signing!? :smiley:

    @XxRichiexRichxX has been moaning about Maguire for weeks, saying he was no better than Smalling. A few others weren't keen on his signing.

    I think @Sellish was just as negative. Might have said he’d rather no CB signing than Maguire for 80m?

    Correct mate.

    I still stand by it. But now he is here and I hope he proves me wrong but it takes more then 1 game.
  • Couchy
    9505 posts League Winner
    Couchy wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Welcome back @Couchy i'm sure it'll be fun with the state this thread gets in seeing you get involved :trollface:.

    I’m a changed man @Keano. I’m just here to talk some football :sweat_smile:

    tenor.gif?itemid=8145440

    giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51ad3bbb467537c07247e6db3beabb939115ee877c6&rid=giphy.gif
  • Pxul_
    7680 posts League Winner
    I bet you guys are looking forward for me beating takeitslow in fpl this week 😂
  • Tornado31619
    16297 posts World Class
    edited August 13
    ...maybe. 😉
  • Pietu
    1740 posts Play-Off Hero
    Couchy wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Welcome back @Couchy i'm sure it'll be fun with the state this thread gets in seeing you get involved :trollface:.

    I’m a changed man @Keano. I’m just here to talk some football :sweat_smile:

    tenor.gif?itemid=8145440

    giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51ad3bbb467537c07247e6db3beabb939115ee877c6&rid=giphy.gif

    They are taking the hobbits to isengard!
  • forearms
    4668 posts National Call-Up
    Was worried some injury or bad transfer news had happened when I saw the 138 new posts.

    Just more ridiculous arguing.


    Any news about lineup/shape for Wolves? Really interested to see how Ole picks the squad.
  • Apollo
    14109 posts Has That Special Something
    forearms wrote: »
    Any news about lineup/shape for Wolves? Really interested to see how Ole picks the squad.

    No actual news about it. We discussed what we'd like to see yesterday I think, but way too early to know anything official from the club.
  • Wyojasond
    11116 posts Has That Special Something
    Couchy wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Welcome back @Couchy i'm sure it'll be fun with the state this thread gets in seeing you get involved :trollface:.

    I’m a changed man @Keano. I’m just here to talk some football :sweat_smile:

    tenor.gif?itemid=8145440

    giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51ad3bbb467537c07247e6db3beabb939115ee877c6&rid=giphy.gif

    tenor.gif?itemid=4706094
  • Tornado31619
    16297 posts World Class
    I don’t think Wolves will be that sharp on the counter TBH. Sure, they created some decent chances the other day, but Jiménez and especially Jota were poor.
  • Wyojasond
    11116 posts Has That Special Something
    Wolves against top 6, and Wolves against the rest of the league are two different animals though 🤷‍♂️

    I think it’s a good test to see where you guys really are.
  • Keano
    12647 posts Has That Special Something
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    I bet you guys are looking forward for me beating takeitslow in fpl this week 😂

    I’ll support whoever has more United players :D
  • Ahmer50x
    17103 posts World Class


    This is pretty unnecessary but I love it :lol:
  • WelshWizard
    731 posts An Exciting Prospect
    edited August 13
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Let's face it, any fan of the club the player is at will be bias towards them, any other fan won't be & will be bias the other way. You can't judge a player on 1 game in a league, he can show signs of being amazing, but if the consistency isn't there, then he'll be an average player/squad player. Reason Maguire/Pepe are different is Maguire has played in the Prem at Hull & Leicester beforehand.... Pepe hasn't. Not to say maguire won't flop in a diferent system/team, but there is evidence of how he handles the league/players in that league & such.

    Rashford isn't an elite talent off of what basis? Sure his dribbling isn't on Martials level, but at the same time he's 21... has more goals than some great strikers at his age & is leading the line (along with Martial) but United, a lot of other 21 year olds who're considered to be great for the future are still in their u23s or on the bench 80% of the time.

    Rashfords consistency is an issue at times, but the end of last season he was playing game after game with a knock, that's why i won't judge him on that... anyone else tried playing on when you're injured & mentally you know you are? it's awful.

    Either way I hope Rashford & Martial both do well, they're both elite in their own right, Martial has what Rashford doesn't & vise versa, it could be a great partnership if they can link up properly.

    Put so many points across so well.

    A question for you, does Rashford get in a league winning side at City or Liverpool? Absolutely not. Which is my point, for me to be truly elite you’re in that upper bracket of players who are helping teams win titles. Look at Sterling for example.

    Rashford in my opinion will never be striker who wins you a title, think about RVP for example. Literally elite at everything, Rashford has inconsistent finishing, doesn’t head the ball and I don’t particularly rate his dribbling.

    That’s why I don’t think he’ll ever be elite, for me Martial has all the tools to become elite as a number 9.

    It’s bizarre people think I’m just bashing united players when I’m singing Martial and Greenwood’s praises :lol: jeeez.

    Rashford is 21. You act like he's in his prime with your comparisons, you can't possible compare Rashford to RVP at his peak, Rashford has years to develop before you can even bring him into a comparison like that. He has plenty of time to improve and has already proven that he can score goals in the Premier League and against top teams. He's only going to get better and is likely to get his best goal return this season under Ole if he stays fit, who is building his attack around him and Martial. Not many players out there are good enough that a manager is prepared to build their attack around them at such a young age.

    Rashford has more Prem goals by age 21 than RvP had by age 25.

    Not very fair to compare an injury ridden season with one who’s had 0 injury problems.

    Rashford’s goal scoring is mid table striker level for United despite consistently getting 1600+ minutes per season. RVP in an injury ridden season scored more than Rashford ever has in a single season.

    In my opinion Martial scores more league goals than Rashford this season and Rashford doesn’t get above 15 league goals.

    Rashford is playing on the wing this season in Ole's 4231. Martial is leading the line, him scoring more goals than Rashford is expected when he's the one playing as the striker.

    They rotated a lot. I watched the highlights back and in the first half Rashford was so lazy tracking back. Specifically when Chelsea put a couple balls into the box from the right and almost scored from them.

    Ole said it was tactical. Rashford was told to stay high and not cover too much so enable the rapid counters. Worked a treat.

    Really?! Could’ve conceded 2 goals by doing that. I’m surprised he actually did that, not sure if that shows inept tactical knowledge. We’ll see in the coming weeks.

    Did it loads last season as well. Teams don't cover it and bomb on with FBs all game. it's pure risk and reward and he does adjust it but vs top sides he risked it all last season with splits STs or wingers and was very successful early on. Teams who sit will be a completely different test.

    Rashford will be LF in that channel he likes, him and Martial will rotate as he likes that area as well. Martial will largely be ST and has more goal scoring instinct. Let's not forget we will counter loads and iso CBs with fast players and Rashford is on Pens he will add to his tally quite a bit from them.

    Every single goal involved a counter-attack. Think the only inept one in question is Lampard. Especially with the basic failure of his block having no compactness. Ole switch to 4-4-1-1 and got Rashford to track and switch to driving through the space Chelsea left in the middle to create the rest of the goals from counters rather than direct passing. If anything he deserves credit for making the defensive change and figuring out a way to use it to improve his attack.
    Post edited by WelshWizard on
  • WelshWizard
    731 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Rashford is 21! Know what comes with age and experience? Consistency.

    Our issue has been Martial and Rashford get in the team and are playing every week since in major roles, Other teams have the luxury to easy them in and one I hope we have with Greenwood. One of their best spells before Ole was job sharing LW not starting every game. Martial has always been clinical and was on for 15-20 goals from LW last season, It's his work rate that was in question not his ability, vs Chelsea was the first time I seen him press and actually look like he didn't mind doing it, even in pre-season he did it but it didn't look right. His goal vs Chelsea he makes the run in front of the defender these are thing we haven't seen from him.

    I was in the camp of Rashford can't be a clinical ST and we should get him RW but since Ole he has been lethal and is picking the right shots and going for the right angles, he always had the technique but decision making and getting in the right positions was weak. Still work to do and when teams cut our space to use pace it will be a test especially with us lacking creativity but It's going to be interesting.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    31652 posts National Team Captain
    edited August 13
    Couchy wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    <3 Everyone who thought Maguire was an awful signing are going to look stupid come the end of the season, if he can keep this form going.


    Who thought he was an awful signing!? :smiley:

    @XxRichiexRichxX has been moaning about Maguire for weeks, saying he was no better than Smalling. A few others weren't keen on his signing.

    Oh no @XxRichiexRichxX... surely you don’t think he’s in the same bracket as Smalling!?
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    Retro_G wrote: »
    <3 Everyone who thought Maguire was an awful signing are going to look stupid come the end of the season, if he can keep this form going.


    Who thought he was an awful signing!? :smiley:

    Ffs he’s had one game for you, you need to actually stop.

    So I guess I’m just supposed to ignore every other game he’s played in his career!? :joy: as evidenced above, I’ve rated Maguire very highly since his Hull days.

    You gonna answer whether you think Pepe is an ‘elite talent’?

    I'm not trying to start another argument and I won't respond to any further arguments that stem from this comment, only making this comment to give my point of view is all.

    I mean you can go back and read any of my comments. I said repeatedly that for the money being paid, I'd rather run Smalling and go "big" for another CB alternative next summer. I said that the main upgrades that Maguire has on Smalling is heading and his ball control, maybe slightly better positioning, but not enough of an upgrade imo that warranted spending the amount of money we did. Outside of aerial stats and Maguire's longballs, and a few more interceptions, Smallings stats were pretty much on par with Maguire. iirc all United's CB's had better tackling stats than Maguire last season. Also, pace going after Maguire worries me because the guy turns like a freight train. Overall I never denied that he was an improvement, just imo not an 80m improvement on what we had.

    Currently I just find Maguire incredibly overrated, arguably not even LCFC's best CB last season, and hes massively overhyped due to being English and because he banged in a header during the WC. He was not a top 5 CB in the league last season, certainly not a top 10-15 CB in the world, I hated the fee we paid for him because it meant that we won't go after finding a better option next season because I think there are better options that will be available.

    With that being said, I've stated that he does complement Lindelof well, never argued that. I've said I wouldn't have been annoyed so much if we had paid 50m or so because that's where he's valued including inflation, nationality, etc. And I've stated that I do in fact hope to be proven wrong and that he does play at a high level, the level he played this past Sunday, consistently throughout his time with us.
  • Sellish
    8855 posts League Winner

    He is smiling again
  • Tornado31619
    16297 posts World Class
    If we didn’t break the market, then somebody else would have. City or another top club would have paid 75m for Ake or Diop and we would have been looking at 100m+ for Maguire. Arsenal were linked with Upamecano prior to signing Luiz, and his release clause is something stupid like 80m.
  • Sellish
    8855 posts League Winner
    Someone know where to get either full highlights or the full game when we played Liverpool at home 15/16 season? Would love to get it in HD.
    Martial debut, Blind's maybe best game for us and that Herrera celebration. Would love to see all that again.
  • Pxul_
    7680 posts League Winner
    Keano wrote: »
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    I bet you guys are looking forward for me beating takeitslow in fpl this week 😂

    I’ll support whoever has more United players :D

    I have 2 one on the bench
  • Tornado31619
    16297 posts World Class
    Who?
  • Apollo
    14109 posts Has That Special Something
    Keano wrote: »
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    I bet you guys are looking forward for me beating takeitslow in fpl this week 😂

    I’ll support whoever has more United players :D

    Does that mean when it's the week with our team's fixture that you'll want my team to win if I have more United players than your team? :trollface:
  • Pxul_
    7680 posts League Winner
    Who?

    One must never reveal his secrets 😂
  • Ahmer50x
    17103 posts World Class
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    Keano wrote: »
    Pxul_ wrote: »
    I bet you guys are looking forward for me beating takeitslow in fpl this week 😂

    I’ll support whoever has more United players :D

    I have 2 one on the bench

    This means you either took a hit or wildcarded already.

    Gashtastic.
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