Manchester United Football Club

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  • Keano
    9843 posts League Winner
    Couchy wrote: »
    Really is great news on Rashy. He’s not been right since the Pool match, much needed rest. The influence of SAF reigns again :joy: find it hilarious that all of our players have pulled out

    Top 4/CL is more important.
  • forearms
    3886 posts National Call-Up
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?
  • Tornado31619
    14039 posts Has That Special Something
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?

    Looks like a 433 to me. Shaw and Young as full-backs with Pogba playing higher than the other two.
  • forearms
    3886 posts National Call-Up
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?

    Looks like a 433 to me. Shaw and Young as full-backs with Pogba playing higher than the other two.

    But Lukaku has played on the RW less than 3 total times.
  • Couchy
    8419 posts League Winner
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?

    No, it’s a map of firstly our most used players and then their average position whilst on the field.

    I agree you need to see Mata and Lingards average position to get a fully accurate map but I think we all agree they won’t be that far to the right.
  • forearms
    3886 posts National Call-Up
    Couchy wrote: »
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?

    No, it’s a map of firstly our most used players and then their average position whilst on the field.

    I agree you need to see Mata and Lingards average position to get a fully accurate map but I think we all agree they won’t be that far to the right.

    Well, if that is the case, it doesnt have much relevance. Oh well.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.
  • Ahmer50x
    11943 posts Has That Special Something
    Not the best match to pick but:



    Shaw and Martial in the correct wide positions while Lingard drifts somewhat central.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    edited March 21
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    edited March 21
    Admittedly I placed more importance on that original diagram than should have been, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we all know by watching the games that we have a major problem on the RW that (imo) nothing but a genuine winger will fix. Griezmann would just paper over the flaws there.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    edited March 21
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.

    He does though... even when he "goes outside him", he's still inside the box more often than not when that happens, after receiving the ball from the touch line... so yes he still cuts in. He doesn't just sit wide and ping crosses in. He looks to get as close to the goal before having to cross/shoot by cutting in and running at defenders
  • Ahmer50x
    11943 posts Has That Special Something
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.

    He does though... even when he "goes outside him", he's still inside the box more often than not when that happens, after receiving the ball from the touch line... so yes he still cuts in. He doesn't just sit wide and ping crosses in. He looks to get as close to the goal before having to cross/shoot by cutting in and running at defenders

    Nobody is asking for a player to stay within 5 yards of the sideline at all times. We just want variety rather than only cutting in. Basically, a Martial for the right.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    edited March 21
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.

    He does though... even when he "goes outside him", he's still inside the box more often than not when that happens, after receiving the ball from the touch line... so yes he still cuts in. He doesn't just sit wide and ping crosses in. He looks to get as close to the goal before having to cross/shoot by cutting in and running at defenders

    Nobody is asking for a player to stay within 5 yards of the sideline at all times. We just want variety rather than only cutting in. Basically, a Martial for the right.

    That's literally what Tornado described yesterday... someone to stay wide to ping crosses in...

    That was before he described how Martial and Rashford “drift wide anyways”, and based on that logic there’s a bigger case to be made for Griez

    At the end of the day, Idc who we sign to an extent.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    edited March 21
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.

    He does though... even when he "goes outside him", he's still inside the box more often than not when that happens, after receiving the ball from the touch line... so yes he still cuts in. He doesn't just sit wide and ping crosses in. He looks to get as close to the goal before having to cross/shoot by cutting in and running at defenders

    I'm not trying to suggest he sits out wide and pings crosses in, until this post I haven't mentioned crossing once. The point I'm trying to make is that he's based a lot further out wide than say, Lingard or Mata are when they play on the right. He obviously isn't an old fashioned winger who just tries to get to the byline and lift a cross in to the back post, but he plays wide enough to stretch that side of the oppositions defence, and can beat his man on either side, which we don't have on the right. That's the point. He doesn't drift so far into the centre like Mata and to a lesser extent Lingard that we don't have an outlet on the left.

    Sancho for instance, isn't a old-fashioned winger as such (it's the easiest way to explain what I mean) - but as a winger he plays wide enough to cause the defence problems, and like Martial, can beat his man on either side. Even if Ole chooses someone else, whoever he picks needs to actually stay fairly wide and not be one-dimensional.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Therefore, Jadon Sancho. Not Dybala or Griezmann.

    Based on the description you gave on how we play yesterday, Griez is the best option. lmao.

    And that diagram is going to look like that when you're playing Lukaku on the RW. I'd like to see it with Lingard on RW.

    Lingard always drifts inside, Mata even more so. That's the problem and is why we need a proper winger. Yes Griezmann would be better than either of them as he's a better player but that's not the best solution to the problem. To get the best out of this system we need width on the right. We don't have it and Griezmann wouldn't supply it.

    But yall are acting like Martial stays wide. lol. I just goes wide to receive the ball and then runs in and cuts in. He doesn't just stay wide and ping crosses in like some of you keep saying you want from a RW.

    No he doesn't stay wide entirely, but he does predominantly stay out there. He doesn't just cut in at all, he gets the ball and he can beat his man either by going outside him, or by cutting inside. He often goes round the outside of defenders. He's got different dimensions to his attacking play. We need that on the other side, every option we have right now almost always cuts inside and leaves us with no one on the wing. Whoever we get in doesn't just need to sit on the wing, they can cut inside if the chance is there but they need to be comfortable with beating their man on the outside too. We currently lack that on the right and imo the only player who would give that of the names being discussed is Sancho. The others are little more than a sideways step. They're a less bad solution to the problem than we have right now, not a good one.

    He does though... even when he "goes outside him", he's still inside the box more often than not when that happens, after receiving the ball from the touch line... so yes he still cuts in. He doesn't just sit wide and ping crosses in. He looks to get as close to the goal before having to cross/shoot by cutting in and running at defenders

    Nobody is asking for a player to stay within 5 yards of the sideline at all times. We just want variety rather than only cutting in. Basically, a Martial for the right.

    100% this.
  • Tornado31619
    14039 posts Has That Special Something
    When I said Rashford “drifted out wide anyway”, I was on about his matches as a ST.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    When I said Rashford “drifted out wide anyway”, I was on about his matches as a ST.

    Exactly. You said he drifts wide when he’s at ST and then questioned about not having anyone in the middle when he does that. That’s perfect for Griez and Martial because both like to cut in and crash the box.
  • Retro_G
    25540 posts Player of the Year
    That's shocking from Courtois.
  • Tornado31619
    14039 posts Has That Special Something
    Don’t know how any Utd fan can say with a straight face that they wouldn’t mind a swap with Courtois if Real came back in for De Gea. If Dave leaves, we should be all over Oblak’s release clause.
  • HysxteriA
    3079 posts National Call-Up
    Anyone seeing these reports about Herrera and PSG?
  • Ahmer50x
    11943 posts Has That Special Something
    HysxteriA wrote: »
    Anyone seeing these reports about Herrera and PSG?

    We should beat whatever they’re offering. Herrera must be kept.
  • XxRichiexRichxX
    29574 posts Player of the Year
    Don’t know how any Utd fan can say with a straight face that they wouldn’t mind a swap with Courtois if Real came back in for De Gea. If Dave leaves, we should be all over Oblak’s release clause.

    Well every GK is prone to mistakes. Obviously that’s terrible but even Neuer when he was consistently being hailed as the best in the world still had awful errors.

    While I prefer Oblak without a doubt, Courtois is not as bad of an option as you’re implying.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    edited March 21
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    HysxteriA wrote: »
    Anyone seeing these reports about Herrera and PSG?

    We should beat whatever they’re offering. Herrera must be kept.

    I completely agree, we need him to stay. Hypothetically though, if he decided to go, we'd have to bring in a new starter. I've obviously advocated Pereira staying at the club, but even I don't think he's ready to be a regular starter. And Fred has had very few good games for us. Wouldn't want him starting on a regular basis either.
  • Tornado31619
    14039 posts Has That Special Something
    I’ll be honest, I wasn’t impressed by Courtois last season. But maybe I’m judging him based on anomalies such as Bournemouth at the Bridge.
  • Apollo
    8665 posts League Winner
    There's no keeper I'd rather at the club than De Gea, really hope he signs a new deal.
  • Couchy
    8419 posts League Winner
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    forearms wrote: »
    Couchy wrote: »
    This is brilliant and really shows how much that right side is lacking.


    So is this based on the 2 striker formations? As it shows, there isnt someone that would normally play the on the right, but we haven't played Martial when using a 2 striker formation, except one time I believe?

    No, it’s a map of firstly our most used players and then their average position whilst on the field.

    I agree you need to see Mata and Lingards average position to get a fully accurate map but I think we all agree they won’t be that far to the right.

    Well, if that is the case, it doesnt have much relevance. Oh well.

    Well if you combine it with actually watching United play then I guess you could understand it better
  • Tornado31619
    14039 posts Has That Special Something
    Apollo wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    HysxteriA wrote: »
    Anyone seeing these reports about Herrera and PSG?

    We should beat whatever they’re offering. Herrera must be kept.

    I completely agree, we need him to stay. Hypothetically though, if he decided to go, we'd have to bring in a new starter. I've obviously advocated Pereira staying at the club, but even I don't think he's ready to be a regular starter. And Fred has had very few good games for us. Wouldn't want him starting on a regular basis either.

    My preferred option, Ruben Neves, would likely be too expensive for this summer. Although surely we could still make an agreement with Wolves for next year?
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