Virgil van Dijk

1
SDoofus
4745 posts National Call-Up
ECzn1VdXoAArbw0.jpg

I think having individual player threads is potentially a good idea, so I am going to kick it off with a thread for recent CL, Super Cup, UEFA POTY and PL POTY winner, Virgil van Dijk.

Is he the best CB in the PL era?

Comments

  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    SDoofus wrote: »
    Is he the best CB in the PL era?

    Whilst he doesn't yet have the longevity or the trophy count of some of the PL greats i.e. Vidic, Terry and Ferdinand, I can't help but honestly believe that VVD is a superior player than all of them. I don't think any of those 3, or anyone else, quite measures up to VVD as an overall player. It is genuinely crazy how good this man is and it's a shame he didn't arrive at a big club earlier in his career, but I do think he has many, many years left.
  • Pugzilla
    15851 posts World Class
    Best to ever do it and the stats back that up. Future Ballon D’or winner (potentially multiple wins) and the trophy haul doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon. You couldn’t make a better CB in a lab.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Best to ever do it and the stats back that up. Future Ballon D’or winner (potentially multiple wins) and the trophy haul doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon. You couldn’t make a better CB in a lab.

    That's the thing, isn't it? He doesn't appear to have a single weakness, whereas pretty much every one of the PL's greatest CBs did have at least one weakness i.e. Terry and his pace, Vidic and his rash moments/the way he would sometimes let a player turn him inside out on the regular aka Torres. Ferdinand was quite poor at winning aerial duels, despite his height. Vidic and Rio complemented each other, though, but the point remains that VVD literally seems to be all strengths and no weaknesses. He even raises the level of the CB next to him.
  • Shshj
    3995 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    If you're ranking him on pure ability alone then yes, he's right up there with the best.

    But overall I would rank him just below the likes of Terry and Ferdinand. He needs to build a dynasty and earn that "legendary" status at Liverpool over a number of years like the others did
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited August 30
    I mean he’s great and all but I really don’t see what is going to be discussed in here that couldn’t just be talked about in the Liverpool thread.

    Also Terry> 😉(his pace wasn’t at all a weakness until he was 30+)

    Also if you were going to argue a weakness with him, he doesn’t seem the same leader that a lot of iconic CBS like Terry were.
    You could also argue his general ability on the ball is fairly average(but maybe I haven’t watched him enough to notice if he is better than I think).

    Regardless the best CB in the world atm, all be it competition for that position isn’t what it used to be.
  • ViVaWhom
    7896 posts League Winner
    for being the best, you would think he could manage a clean sheet this season
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    El_Nino wrote: »
    I mean he’s great and all but I really don’t see what is going to be discussed in here that couldn’t just be talked about in the Liverpool thread.

    Also Terry> 😉(his pace wasn’t at all a weakness until he was 30+)

    Also if you were going to argue a weakness with him, he doesn’t seem the same leader that a lot of iconic CBS like Terry were.
    You could also argue his general ability on the ball is fairly average(but maybe I haven’t watched him enough to notice if he is better than I think).

    Regardless the best CB in the world atm, all be it competition for that position isn’t what it used to be.

    Care to expand on this? Because that sounds utterly wrong. VVD is a massive leader for us.

    Edit: The ability on the ball comment is really wrong too. He has great technique, often playing the sort of passes Pogba gets praised for, plus he's got a good dribble in him too.
  • Apollo
    14269 posts Has That Special Something
    Shshj wrote: »
    If you're ranking him on pure ability alone then yes, he's right up there with the best.

    But overall I would rank him just below the likes of Terry and Ferdinand. He needs to build a dynasty and earn that "legendary" status at Liverpool over a number of years like the others did

    This. VVD is world class and the best CB in the world right now. But he just has to do it for longer to rank alongside those mentioned.
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited August 30
    SDoofus wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    I mean he’s great and all but I really don’t see what is going to be discussed in here that couldn’t just be talked about in the Liverpool thread.

    Also Terry> 😉(his pace wasn’t at all a weakness until he was 30+)

    Also if you were going to argue a weakness with him, he doesn’t seem the same leader that a lot of iconic CBS like Terry were.
    You could also argue his general ability on the ball is fairly average(but maybe I haven’t watched him enough to notice if he is better than I think).

    Regardless the best CB in the world atm, all be it competition for that position isn’t what it used to be.

    Care to expand on this? Because that sounds utterly wrong. VVD is a massive leader for us.

    Personally never seen this when on the pitch, not in the manner that the greats such as Terry ect did it anyway, might be wrong, as I say i haven’t watched him game in game out like I did with Terry. But he never struck me as a leader.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    El_Nino wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    I mean he’s great and all but I really don’t see what is going to be discussed in here that couldn’t just be talked about in the Liverpool thread.

    Also Terry> 😉(his pace wasn’t at all a weakness until he was 30+)

    Also if you were going to argue a weakness with him, he doesn’t seem the same leader that a lot of iconic CBS like Terry were.
    You could also argue his general ability on the ball is fairly average(but maybe I haven’t watched him enough to notice if he is better than I think).

    Regardless the best CB in the world atm, all be it competition for that position isn’t what it used to be.

    Care to expand on this? Because that sounds utterly wrong. VVD is a massive leader for us.

    Personally never seen this when on the pitch, not in the manner that the greats such as Terry ect did it anyway, might be wrong, as I say i haven’t watched him game in game out like I did with Terry. But he never struck me as a leader.

    What does he need to be doing on the pitch to come across as a leader?
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    The main thing with VVD now is consistency, he’s only been at this level for just over a year now(maybe two I can remember what he was like the year before last).

    To be compared with Terry/Rio ect ect he needs to do it for the next 5 years imo. Otherwise he’d fall short and be classed amongst players like Vidic/Torres, as good as anyone on there day ect but not the longevity of the true icons of the prem.
  • Apollo
    14269 posts Has That Special Something
    El_Nino wrote: »
    The main thing with VVD now is consistency, he’s only been at this level for just over a year now(maybe two I can remember what he was like the year before last).

    To be compared with Terry/Rio ect ect he needs to do it for the next 5 years imo

    Yep. Said similar above. He's obviously performing at a high enough level, he just needs to do it for longer.
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    SDoofus wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    I mean he’s great and all but I really don’t see what is going to be discussed in here that couldn’t just be talked about in the Liverpool thread.

    Also Terry> 😉(his pace wasn’t at all a weakness until he was 30+)

    Also if you were going to argue a weakness with him, he doesn’t seem the same leader that a lot of iconic CBS like Terry were.
    You could also argue his general ability on the ball is fairly average(but maybe I haven’t watched him enough to notice if he is better than I think).

    Regardless the best CB in the world atm, all be it competition for that position isn’t what it used to be.

    Care to expand on this? Because that sounds utterly wrong. VVD is a massive leader for us.

    Personally never seen this when on the pitch, not in the manner that the greats such as Terry ect did it anyway, might be wrong, as I say i haven’t watched him game in game out like I did with Terry. But he never struck me as a leader.

    What does he need to be doing on the pitch to come across as a leader?

    Tbh that’s the thing, it’s a hard thing to measure without watching him game in game out, when I’ve watched you guys he’s never seemed like the leader or organiser. But as I say if you watch him every game and say otherwise then your opinion is better than mine in this regard.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    He definitely spends all game shouting and organising the back line, etc. People go as far as to say he’s our real captain on the pitch.
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    Fair enough regarding being a leader, I haven’t seen it but that’s provably my own ignorance/lack of watching him. As others and I have said longevity is the biggie for him now.
  • Pugzilla
    15851 posts World Class
    El_Nino wrote: »
    Fair enough regarding being a leader, I haven’t seen it but that’s provably my own ignorance/lack of watching him. As others and I have said longevity is the biggie for him now.

    What about his peak (assuming last year was his peak and he will not improve on that season) compared to others peaks, Maldini, etc?

  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    Whilst I agree that longevity, etc is a big point to make, I feel it pulls away from what I am really asking.

    Put it this way, if you could bend time, and we've now got Rio, Vidic, Terry and VVD all the same age (or all at their peak age) in front of us, who is the best centre back of them all, ability-wise? Which one is the one to pick for your team? (bias/fond memories aside)
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited August 30
    SDoofus wrote: »
    Whilst I agree that longevity, etc is a big point to make, I feel it pulls away from what I am really asking.

    Put it this way, if you could bend time, and we've now got Rio, Vidic, Terry and VVD all the same age (or all at their peak age) in front of us, who is the best centre back of them all, ability-wise? Which one is the one to pick for your team? (bias/fond memories aside)

    I would take Vidic and Terry personally.
    Then VVD then Rio, I’m splitting hairs but if I had to that’s the order I’d go in.
  • Alex_cr
    4796 posts National Call-Up
    SDoofus wrote: »
    Whilst I agree that longevity, etc is a big point to make, I feel it pulls away from what I am really asking.

    Put it this way, if you could bend time, and we've now got Rio, Vidic, Terry and VVD all the same age (or all at their peak age) in front of us, who is the best centre back of them all, ability-wise? Which one is the one to pick for your team? (bias/fond memories aside)

    VVD all day long. Vindictive is not even in the discussion as far as I’m concerned.

    Another thing. This is 2 threads now I’ve seen comparing with Maldini. Maldini was essentially a left back! Yes he spent some of his later career at CB but I find it a really weird comparison.
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    Pugzilla wrote: »
    El_Nino wrote: »
    Fair enough regarding being a leader, I haven’t seen it but that’s provably my own ignorance/lack of watching him. As others and I have said longevity is the biggie for him now.

    What about his peak (assuming last year was his peak and he will not improve on that season) compared to others peaks, Maldini, etc?

    It’s really hard to compare because of the lack of quality at CB atm, alongside different attackers and different play, so it’s tough, personally as I said I’d rate prime Vidic/Terry and a few other like Maldini over current prime VVD. But as I said I’m splitting hairs to do so.
  • TakeItSlow
    7182 posts Big Money Move
    I swear mods said yesterday no to these threads. Stop cluttering the forum.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    edited August 30
    It honestly boggles my mind to think that someone can rate Vidic over VVD. Vidic was a ticking time bomb. I can't imagine VVD getting rinsed over and over again by the same player. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as good without Rio next to him, and vice versa. The perfect foil for each other, whereas VVD literally seems to have the best of both of them, and neither of their weaknesses.

    Terry is the real debate, imo, and for me, VVD's sheer pace is what puts his nose in front.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    I swear mods said yesterday no to these threads. Stop cluttering the forum.

    Not really the same, though, is it? Stay on topic or just leave the thread if you can't discuss it nicely.
  • Alex_cr
    4796 posts National Call-Up
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It honestly boggles my mind to think that someone can rate Vidic over VVD. Vidic was a ticking time bomb. I can't imagine VVD getting rinsed over and over again by the same player. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as good without Rio next to him, and vice versa. The perfect foil for each other, whereas VVD literally seems to have the best of both of them, and neither of their weaknesses.

    Terry is the real debate, imo, and for me, VVD's sheer pace is what puts his nose in front.

    I would go as far as to say that he is better at what Vidic was good at and nearly as good as Rio at what he was good at. He’s almost both players in one.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    Winning the UEFA POTY and potentially winning the Ballon d'Or in the era of Messi and Ronaldo, as a CB, wow...
  • El_Nino
    2905 posts Fans' Favourite
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It honestly boggles my mind to think that someone can rate Vidic over VVD. Vidic was a ticking time bomb. I can't imagine VVD getting rinsed over and over again by the same player. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as good without Rio next to him, and vice versa. The perfect foil for each other, whereas VVD literally seems to have the best of both of them, and neither of their weaknesses.

    Terry is the real debate, imo, and for me, VVD's sheer pace is what puts his nose in front.
    Not sure VVD is any faster than Terry was in his late Twenties tbf, Terry slowed down a lot at his early to mid 30s but earlier on he was relatively fast.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up
    El_Nino wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It honestly boggles my mind to think that someone can rate Vidic over VVD. Vidic was a ticking time bomb. I can't imagine VVD getting rinsed over and over again by the same player. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as good without Rio next to him, and vice versa. The perfect foil for each other, whereas VVD literally seems to have the best of both of them, and neither of their weaknesses.

    Terry is the real debate, imo, and for me, VVD's sheer pace is what puts his nose in front.
    Not sure VVD is any faster than Terry was in his late Twenties tbf, Terry slowed down a lot at his early to mid 30s but earlier on he was relatively fast.

    What was his peak pace stat on FIFA? ;)
  • Alex_cr
    4796 posts National Call-Up
    El_Nino wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It honestly boggles my mind to think that someone can rate Vidic over VVD. Vidic was a ticking time bomb. I can't imagine VVD getting rinsed over and over again by the same player. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as good without Rio next to him, and vice versa. The perfect foil for each other, whereas VVD literally seems to have the best of both of them, and neither of their weaknesses.

    Terry is the real debate, imo, and for me, VVD's sheer pace is what puts his nose in front.
    Not sure VVD is any faster than Terry was in his late Twenties tbf, Terry slowed down a lot at his early to mid 30s but earlier on he was relatively fast.

    He definitely wasn’t. What was remarkable about Terry was his ability to read the game from such an early age. Guy never had pace.
  • SDoofus
    4745 posts National Call-Up




    Both crazy examples of his pace.
  • TakeItSlow
    7182 posts Big Money Move
    SDoofus wrote: »
    TakeItSlow wrote: »
    I swear mods said yesterday no to these threads. Stop cluttering the forum.

    Not really the same, though, is it? Stay on topic or just leave the thread if you can't discuss it nicely.

    He’s the best CB in the world, doesn’t need to be discussed. Just creating a thread for the sake of it.
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