How can the average player beat the 4231 Sheep? Geniune Question

1
Salvatori
683 posts An Exciting Prospect
edited July 13
So WL, usual fare. I will end up on 15 wins, but thats by the by. Played 21 so far and in there a mix of:

Easy wins - i have a super team and sometimes that just shows
Absolute spankings - Sometimes matchmaking aint kind. I am a G3 player so G1 or Elite just destroy me and thats cool
Lagfests - Few this weekend where it was pretty clear a one side connection decided the game - both in my favour and not. It is what it is
Great games - Actually a good 5 or 6 this weekend where i enjoyed it. In those i would say i am 3 - 3. Good game of fifa with no broken mechanics, just 2 decent matched players and sometimes i win, sometimes i lose

Then there is the worst:

4231 sheep - Every single time this WL i have faced a 4231 player with clearly Drop back and 1/1 with fast build up, i lose. Sometimes i lose 5 or 6 nil because every time they attack via a through ball to wide CAMs, my defenders dont track it, or they are just in behind because of it. Meanwhile my patient build up play is useless against them with everyone back behind the ball. If i dont lose 5 nil (usualy i give up at 3 in these games as its so obvious), then its worse - i smash them all game but still get beat.

My last game a great case in point. Here are the full time stats:

c78aa5543c8a3499fb53cbad4968750d.png


Personally, i always ignore shot counts - mean nothing. He brought on Ibra and spammed long shots so he could aim corners at him. But the possession shows that whilst it was hardly a totally one sided game, i was better. But more than that is the pass completion rate. I mean this guy had a 72% completion rate (it was actual 69% at 90mins!) - shows exactly his style. Try through balls all the time.

Yet i lose this game on pens. Sorry for the length, but here are the 4 goals in the game:

Me - Ok, there is an argument this is a first time shot abuse, but its a FK routine i use often. Short, pop it off then smash it. I will happily admit there is good fortune in this going in off Carlos's 2 star WF :D But this guys defense approach was constant foul me, so i have no issue with scoring a goal like this



Him - 81 mins and its his first corner as you see at the start, that says something. I clear the first one, but it always goes to an opponent when i do. Ok maybe not the best initial tackle attempt on Zlat, but then he spams a long shot to get another corner, and scores it when my man on the line is about as usefull as a parking cone



So now to ET, and from my own goal kick, i take the time to work a move. Dunno how many passes, but i think this counts as a decent goal, playing fifa the proper way? I mean his defending is not great but i think its reasonably well worked?



Now to his - Ok, so you could call this well worked, its not a bad move........but its how 90% of 4231 sheep score against me at the moment - through balls that my AI defenders wont track. As per usual player switching does me zero favours.......but these through balls man



SO at the end of that absolute essay....... What is the advice for non Elite players on how to do better against these clowns? I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it - like previous game guy was spaming long air balls to his wingers against a back 3, so switch to 41212 and had him rage quiting within 30mins. I just cant for hte life of me stop these stupid quick counters and through balls from this type of sheep player.

Is there really no way other than to join them? Play the same shape and approach against them? I cant bring myself to do that.........

Comments

  • Mutu10gol
    2430 posts Fans' Favourite
    no way my friend, sad but true, this is fifa 19, the most boring formation, the most boring tactics will win....anyway great thread.
  • zeultuturor
    449 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited July 13
    so they are sheep for using a formation that beats you? that sounds like someone uses what s more effective which only makes him smarter than you who uses the same **** tactic every time but expects different results
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    so they are sheep for using a formation that beats you? that sounds like someone uses what s more effective which only makes him smarter than you who uses the same **** tactic every time but expects different results

    Can you even read you ****. How about read the bit where i said

    "I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it "


    Idiot
  • Orison
    46455 posts FIFA Cover Star
    First goal you are not moving the keeper otherwise he would have just picked it up or atleast punted it away.

    2nd goal you run around with Ruud like a headless chicken and wonder why on earth he gets through so easily. You need to select your fullback to block the through ball down the line and force him into something else. Then you need to keep backtracking with your fullback, because he can't do anything in the middle so he will look for another pass down the wing. Instead you pull out VVD and it's gg.

    Your decision making and defending just needs to be way better. So yeah an average player might need to git gud to consistently beat opponents, what a surprise.
  • zeultuturor
    449 posts Sunday League Hero
    Salvatori wrote: »
    so they are sheep for using a formation that beats you? that sounds like someone uses what s more effective which only makes him smarter than you who uses the same **** tactic every time but expects different results

    Can you even read you ****. How about read the bit where i said

    "I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it "


    Idiot

    just because you press a button doesnt mean you change your approach. you still play the same **** in another formation that gets abused by 4231
  • rfc41ge
    57 posts Park Captain
    Most players dont use forums, majority of these players just play with what the think works and people like you cry... Like a sheep because your favourite streamer did :D
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Community as toxic as ever i see. If i could git gud i wouldnt be an average player would i you bunch of ***s
  • rfc41ge
    57 posts Park Captain
    Salvatori wrote: »
    Community as toxic as ever i see. If i could git gud i wouldnt be an average player would i you bunch of ***s

    Sheeps are pretty average, try be the goat.
  • Salvatori wrote: »
    Community as toxic as ever i see. If i could git gud i wouldnt be an average player would i you bunch of ***s

    don't bite .

    the majority wouldn't tell you even if they knew - they don't want someone beating their sheep formation .

    i've seen 4-2-2-2 work quite well - perhaps someone can give you custom tactics for that - to pen the sheep into their own half .
  • Orison
    46455 posts FIFA Cover Star
    Salvatori wrote: »
    Community as toxic as ever i see. If i could git gud i wouldnt be an average player would i you bunch of ***s

    Why are you asking if you don't want to improve anyways?

    Wins don't just randomly rain down upon you.
  • selb
    5759 posts Big Money Move
    I don't usually agree with @Orison but unfortunately he's correct here.

    And also, you cant make a thread like this without someone critiquing your play, comes with the territory, if you don't like the criticism then don't make threads like this, but you also won't learn where you went wrong.
  • bberger
    4671 posts National Call-Up
    Salvatori wrote: »
    So WL, usual fare. I will end up on 15 wins, but thats by the by. Played 21 so far and in there a mix of:

    Easy wins - i have a super team and sometimes that just shows
    Absolute spankings - Sometimes matchmaking aint kind. I am a G3 player so G1 or Elite just destroy me and thats cool
    Lagfests - Few this weekend where it was pretty clear a one side connection decided the game - both in my favour and not. It is what it is
    Great games - Actually a good 5 or 6 this weekend where i enjoyed it. In those i would say i am 3 - 3. Good game of fifa with no broken mechanics, just 2 decent matched players and sometimes i win, sometimes i lose

    Then there is the worst:

    4231 sheep - Every single time this WL i have faced a 4231 player with clearly Drop back and 1/1 with fast build up, i lose. Sometimes i lose 5 or 6 nil because every time they attack via a through ball to wide CAMs, my defenders dont track it, or they are just in behind because of it. Meanwhile my patient build up play is useless against them with everyone back behind the ball. If i dont lose 5 nil (usualy i give up at 3 in these games as its so obvious), then its worse - i smash them all game but still get beat.

    My last game a great case in point. Here are the full time stats:

    c78aa5543c8a3499fb53cbad4968750d.png


    Personally, i always ignore shot counts - mean nothing. He brought on Ibra and spammed long shots so he could aim corners at him. But the possession shows that whilst it was hardly a totally one sided game, i was better. But more than that is the pass completion rate. I mean this guy had a 72% completion rate (it was actual 69% at 90mins!) - shows exactly his style. Try through balls all the time.

    Yet i lose this game on pens. Sorry for the length, but here are the 4 goals in the game:

    Me - Ok, there is an argument this is a first time shot abuse, but its a FK routine i use often. Short, pop it off then smash it. I will happily admit there is good fortune in this going in off Carlos's 2 star WF :D But this guys defense approach was constant foul me, so i have no issue with scoring a goal like this



    Him - 81 mins and its his first corner as you see at the start, that says something. I clear the first one, but it always goes to an opponent when i do. Ok maybe not the best initial tackle attempt on Zlat, but then he spams a long shot to get another corner, and scores it when my man on the line is about as usefull as a parking cone



    So now to ET, and from my own goal kick, i take the time to work a move. Dunno how many passes, but i think this counts as a decent goal, playing fifa the proper way? I mean his defending is not great but i think its reasonably well worked?



    Now to his - Ok, so you could call this well worked, its not a bad move........but its how 90% of 4231 sheep score against me at the moment - through balls that my AI defenders wont track. As per usual player switching does me zero favours.......but these through balls man



    SO at the end of that absolute essay....... What is the advice for non Elite players on how to do better against these clowns? I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it - like previous game guy was spaming long air balls to his wingers against a back 3, so switch to 41212 and had him rage quiting within 30mins. I just cant for hte life of me stop these stupid quick counters and through balls from this type of sheep player.

    Is there really no way other than to join them? Play the same shape and approach against them? I cant bring myself to do that.........

    Try 3142:

    - CDM stay back, cut passing lanes (you can use your FBs as LCB/RCB and your CBs as CCB/CDM.
    - Both CMs on Get Forward, get in box for crosses (best are tall players that can shoot, preferrably 4* o 5* WF)
    - LM/RM: Get in Behind, Cut inside (left footed on right and vice versa)
    - one ST on drift wide and GiB
    - other one on Stay central

    - Depending on score and time left: Pressure on heavy touch (< 45 min), press after possession lost < 70 min, constant pressure (desperation in the last 15).
    - 2-3 width
    - 7-8 depth
    - fast buildup
    - 7-8 width
    - 10 player in box
    - corner and fk as you like.

    You'll be exposed on the through balls, there is no denying that. But if you're exposed anyways it won't make a difference. You have to be decent at manual defending though. The wingbacks help catching up.

    The upside though and the goal is: disrupt the attack before it happens. With dropback and fast buildup and your offensive instructions there will be holes in their midfield.

    While his front 5 is bombing forward you attack his midfield and you'll have a massive numbers advantage in front of his box (your 2 ST, 2 Wingbacks and your 2 CMs will have space, and the high width will spread the field and his remaining players out so your CMs can break through. The one ST going wide will help in that leaving a lane for one of your CMs or the stay central ST open.

    You need to act fast on it. If tue other guy actually is decent and realizes what you're doing you're ****. If he's just a sheep he won't handle it.
  • SuperSonicSean
    5775 posts Big Money Move
    41212 wide LM/RM stay wide, come back on defense, and mayyyybe keep your fullbacks on stay back if you're getting killed on the wings. This will give you the defensive help you need to stop the long diagonal through balls to the opposite wing.

    Attacking the formation, you need to keep the ball wide and switch the point of attack with your wide players. Play obnoxious possession (pass back to your keeper/CBs if you have to) to draw them out of their 1 depth shell, then attack the gaps. Good players will be more disciplined defensively, and you'll get smacked by better players and teams running the 4231, but I found this formation helps significantly against similarly skilled opponents.
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    selb wrote: »
    I don't usually agree with @Orison but unfortunately he's correct here.

    And also, you cant make a thread like this without someone critiquing your play, comes with the territory, if you don't like the criticism then don't make threads like this, but you also won't learn where you went wrong.

    Have no issue with critiquing - if you check my post history, i created 2 threads in the last few months asking to be critiqued and laying out rubbish i am at fifa, took it all on board etc. His points about the manual defending all fair. Bit saying "git gud" is not helpful to anyone.

    My point, and posting the vids was prolly the first mistake, is that i was clearly a better player than this guy in most aspects of the game. I can build up passing moves, i can (sometimes...) finish, i can defend sporadically against most types of attack. I can vary my game. I can use width, i can use short quick sharp passing around the middle.

    i aint trying to beat a G1 player who uses 4231 here. Just understand how i can stop losing to clearly inferior / same skill level players soley because they use the same boring exploity system.

    If the answer is you cant - unless you simply move up from being a G3 player, you can never beat these, then fair enough. Just thought a few other G3 or even G2 types might have similar experience.
  • humping_klown
    904 posts Semi-Pro
    edited July 14
    selb wrote: »
    I don't usually agree with @Orison but unfortunately he's correct here.

    And also, you cant make a thread like this without someone critiquing your play, comes with the territory, if you don't like the criticism then don't make threads like this, but you also won't learn where you went wrong.

    constructive criticism is great but just appearing to be a bit sarcastic or rude is a bit uncalled for .

    a bit more depth into what they believe he is doing wrong or performing badly at it is required... especially for someone who admits to being a bang average player

    might not have been what the other posters intended but it is how i read it so perhaps thats why the OP was a bit annoyed .

    not the poster you mentioned btw .
  • Theomanny
    1444 posts Play-Off Hero
    Got my first gold 1 with 451. It totally destroys 4231 until ea patched the formation 2 patches ago. Not the cam are playing wide while the left and right wingers swap in the middle. Its a total mess now. It basically just shut down 4231 in all angles in their own half.
  • rfc41ge
    57 posts Park Captain
    bberger wrote: »
    Salvatori wrote: »
    So WL, usual fare. I will end up on 15 wins, but thats by the by. Played 21 so far and in there a mix of:

    Easy wins - i have a super team and sometimes that just shows
    Absolute spankings - Sometimes matchmaking aint kind. I am a G3 player so G1 or Elite just destroy me and thats cool
    Lagfests - Few this weekend where it was pretty clear a one side connection decided the game - both in my favour and not. It is what it is
    Great games - Actually a good 5 or 6 this weekend where i enjoyed it. In those i would say i am 3 - 3. Good game of fifa with no broken mechanics, just 2 decent matched players and sometimes i win, sometimes i lose

    Then there is the worst:

    4231 sheep - Every single time this WL i have faced a 4231 player with clearly Drop back and 1/1 with fast build up, i lose. Sometimes i lose 5 or 6 nil because every time they attack via a through ball to wide CAMs, my defenders dont track it, or they are just in behind because of it. Meanwhile my patient build up play is useless against them with everyone back behind the ball. If i dont lose 5 nil (usualy i give up at 3 in these games as its so obvious), then its worse - i smash them all game but still get beat.

    My last game a great case in point. Here are the full time stats:

    c78aa5543c8a3499fb53cbad4968750d.png


    Personally, i always ignore shot counts - mean nothing. He brought on Ibra and spammed long shots so he could aim corners at him. But the possession shows that whilst it was hardly a totally one sided game, i was better. But more than that is the pass completion rate. I mean this guy had a 72% completion rate (it was actual 69% at 90mins!) - shows exactly his style. Try through balls all the time.

    Yet i lose this game on pens. Sorry for the length, but here are the 4 goals in the game:

    Me - Ok, there is an argument this is a first time shot abuse, but its a FK routine i use often. Short, pop it off then smash it. I will happily admit there is good fortune in this going in off Carlos's 2 star WF :D But this guys defense approach was constant foul me, so i have no issue with scoring a goal like this



    Him - 81 mins and its his first corner as you see at the start, that says something. I clear the first one, but it always goes to an opponent when i do. Ok maybe not the best initial tackle attempt on Zlat, but then he spams a long shot to get another corner, and scores it when my man on the line is about as usefull as a parking cone



    So now to ET, and from my own goal kick, i take the time to work a move. Dunno how many passes, but i think this counts as a decent goal, playing fifa the proper way? I mean his defending is not great but i think its reasonably well worked?



    Now to his - Ok, so you could call this well worked, its not a bad move........but its how 90% of 4231 sheep score against me at the moment - through balls that my AI defenders wont track. As per usual player switching does me zero favours.......but these through balls man



    SO at the end of that absolute essay....... What is the advice for non Elite players on how to do better against these clowns? I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it - like previous game guy was spaming long air balls to his wingers against a back 3, so switch to 41212 and had him rage quiting within 30mins. I just cant for hte life of me stop these stupid quick counters and through balls from this type of sheep player.

    Is there really no way other than to join them? Play the same shape and approach against them? I cant bring myself to do that.........

    Try 3142:

    - CDM stay back, cut passing lanes (you can use your FBs as LCB/RCB and your CBs as CCB/CDM.
    - Both CMs on Get Forward, get in box for crosses (best are tall players that can shoot, preferrably 4* o 5* WF)
    - LM/RM: Get in Behind, Cut inside (left footed on right and vice versa)
    - one ST on drift wide and GiB
    - other one on Stay central

    - Depending on score and time left: Pressure on heavy touch (< 45 min), press after possession lost < 70 min, constant pressure (desperation in the last 15).
    - 2-3 width
    - 7-8 depth
    - fast buildup
    - 7-8 width
    - 10 player in box
    - corner and fk as you like.

    You'll be exposed on the through balls, there is no denying that. But if you're exposed anyways it won't make a difference. You have to be decent at manual defending though. The wingbacks help catching up.

    The upside though and the goal is: disrupt the attack before it happens. With dropback and fast buildup and your offensive instructions there will be holes in their midfield.

    While his front 5 is bombing forward you attack his midfield and you'll have a massive numbers advantage in front of his box (your 2 ST, 2 Wingbacks and your 2 CMs will have space, and the high width will spread the field and his remaining players out so your CMs can break through. The one ST going wide will help in that leaving a lane for one of your CMs or the stay central ST open.

    You need to act fast on it. If tue other guy actually is decent and realizes what you're doing you're ****. If he's just a sheep he won't handle it.

    Wouldn't op be a sheep if he used your tactics? Bahhhhhh :o
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Cheers @SuperSonicSean and @bberger - appreciate the thoughts, will give some of it a go.

    Clearly absolute murphys law that my first game after posting this is againast a 4231, and i spank him 6 v 1 before HT to the point of rage :D (He scored an absolute peach FK with Birthday Walker tbf)
  • Orison
    46455 posts FIFA Cover Star
    edited July 14
    Salvatori wrote: »
    selb wrote: »
    I don't usually agree with @Orison but unfortunately he's correct here.

    And also, you cant make a thread like this without someone critiquing your play, comes with the territory, if you don't like the criticism then don't make threads like this, but you also won't learn where you went wrong.

    Have no issue with critiquing - if you check my post history, i created 2 threads in the last few months asking to be critiqued and laying out rubbish i am at fifa, took it all on board etc. His points about the manual defending all fair. Bit saying "git gud" is not helpful to anyone.

    My point, and posting the vids was prolly the first mistake, is that i was clearly a better player than this guy in most aspects of the game. I can build up passing moves, i can (sometimes...) finish, i can defend sporadically against most types of attack. I can vary my game. I can use width, i can use short quick sharp passing around the middle.

    i aint trying to beat a G1 player who uses 4231 here. Just understand how i can stop losing to clearly inferior / same skill level players soley because they use the same boring exploity system.

    If the answer is you cant - unless you simply move up from being a G3 player, you can never beat these, then fair enough. Just thought a few other G3 or even G2 types might have similar experience.

    I mean lets break it down. You are a Gold 3 player so your best record at the end of the weekend is 16-14 which is +2 form. Unless you always perform the choke of the century and go from 15-0 or 16-0 to 16-14 then you won't play on maxed out form ever meaning you avoid most good players anyways.

    That leaves good players playing their way up (which gets less and less as the weekend progresses) and bad players. During Friday and early Saturday you will play some good players who are just on their way up and they will smash you and keep your form low. So as the weekend progresses you will play mostly bad players like yourself. Yet you still take 14-16 Ls a weekend.

    If you won even some of those matches against bad players your form would be higher and the level of opponents would be higher meaning you would either instantly drop down or you would have to improve to stay up there.

    So yes the answer on how to beat these people is to "git gud". All these people you play are struggling in the same way as you do. They mostly lose to other average players, because the big boys play way above your level. They win some, they lose some, they end up in Gold 3. You need to improve to get through these games and then you will play better opponents which then also forces you to step up for game.
  • Dochter
    141 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Gaming in general has stagnated. Developers really can't keep up with consumers and as a result people who know how the game "works" will complete the game how it was coded
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Orison wrote: »
    Salvatori wrote: »
    selb wrote: »
    I don't usually agree with @Orison but unfortunately he's correct here.

    And also, you cant make a thread like this without someone critiquing your play, comes with the territory, if you don't like the criticism then don't make threads like this, but you also won't learn where you went wrong.

    Have no issue with critiquing - if you check my post history, i created 2 threads in the last few months asking to be critiqued and laying out rubbish i am at fifa, took it all on board etc. His points about the manual defending all fair. Bit saying "git gud" is not helpful to anyone.

    My point, and posting the vids was prolly the first mistake, is that i was clearly a better player than this guy in most aspects of the game. I can build up passing moves, i can (sometimes...) finish, i can defend sporadically against most types of attack. I can vary my game. I can use width, i can use short quick sharp passing around the middle.

    i aint trying to beat a G1 player who uses 4231 here. Just understand how i can stop losing to clearly inferior / same skill level players soley because they use the same boring exploity system.

    If the answer is you cant - unless you simply move up from being a G3 player, you can never beat these, then fair enough. Just thought a few other G3 or even G2 types might have similar experience.

    I mean lets break it down. You are a Gold 3 player so your best record at the end of the weekend is 16-14 which is +2 form. Unless you always perform the choke of the century and go from 15-0 or 16-0 to 16-14 then you won't play on maxed out form ever meaning you avoid most good players anyways.

    That leaves good players playing their way up (which gets less and less as the weekend progresses) and bad players. During Friday and early Saturday you will play some good players who are just on their way up and they will smash you and keep your form low. So as the weekend progresses you will play mostly bad players like yourself. Yet you still take 14-16 Ls a weekend.

    If you won even some of those matches against bad players your form would be higher and the level of opponents would be higher meaning you would either instantly drop down or you would have to improve to stay up there.

    So yes the answer on how to beat these people is to "git gud". All these people you play are struggling in the same way as you do. They mostly lose to other average players, because the big boys play way above your level. They win some, they lose some, they end up in Gold 3. You need to improve to get through these games and then you will play better opponents which then also forces you to step up for game.

    Alright, fair play thats constructive.

    Maybe my original point was not great. I am not trying to improve from G3 here (well i am.......but not in this thread). I know my issues. My reactions aint quick enough (i am old), i cant pull of skill moves in and around the box and i cant defend those who do. I rush things, go forward instead of back too much and have an addiction to the "sprint" button that i cant quite kick.....

    I am not under any illusions - If i had beaten say 2 of these sheep this weekend, it just means the next game would be a +2 form and i might well just lose to a better player. So be it....... I think in all WL, i have never been higher than +5 (i was 11 - 5 a few weeks ago and still finished 16 - 14).

    All i was lookin for was some specifics on how to beat weaker players who simply take advantage of specific game mechanics which, are pretty universaliy acknowledged to be, OP.

    Thanks for the bollocking though - since you did that i am 3 - 0 :D
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Total karma. Next game, 4231 drop deep but this time long ball, and getting smacked around :(
  • rfc41ge
    57 posts Park Captain
    Salvatori wrote: »
    Total karma. Next game, 4231 drop deep but this time long ball, and getting smacked around :(

    So you win some, great, then you lose and it's only because they used a certain formation....

    Your obviosly a smart cookie so here's my advice tou you, play your games instead of looking for excuses to post on forum.
  • Pacin07
    14 posts Ball Boy
    I’ve had many similar experiences where I feel like I lost the game despite being the better player, but I also refuse to play 4231/drop back too.

    I think the honest truth is that if you’re playing someone who’s at a similar level or slightly worse, then you’re at a disadvantage if you’re not using these tactics.

    In order to progress, you need to improve your overall level so that you can more consistently overcome this type of opponent.

    From watching your videos, I’d recommend trying to work on the following:

    Pulling your defenders backwards to limit the space in behind your back line. This is important when you give the ball away and you’re not playing drop back tactics, as chances are you’ve committed players forwards whilst trying to pass through the bus they’ve got parked at the back. Unless you feel like you’re reading your opponent well and you’re close enough, then it’s better to pull your midfielders backwards to block passes than attack the ball carrier in my opinion - that’s what I would have done with Gullit for that second goal you conceded.

    For corners, I’ve found moving the keeper a couple of steps forward and out towards his 6 yard box really helps, also holding the shoot button to clear - seems to result in a higher defensive leap.

    In terms of attacking, it’s hard to say as we can’t see any of the chances you missed or possessions you gave up. I notice from your 2nd goal though that you seem to play what I would describe as simple Fifa, in that you don’t manipulate the ball in anyway - it’s all simple X passing/1-2’s. If you can throw in some drag-backs, ball rolls, la croquetas, heel to heels and scoop turns, first time fake shots then it’ll really benefit your attacking game by making you less predictable. Easy to say I know but I’m up to Elite 3 after adding some of this stuff and I’m 36 with limited reactions too 🙂
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Oh man you cannot write the stuff this game does :D

    After posting this, i went on a 5 - 0 run, 4 against 4231 as well. That got me to 16 wins with 3 games to go.

    Next game, 4231. 5 mins i get a pen. I do what i always do, aim to one side of the keeper, then during the run up move it to the other side. It goes right down the middle, and is saved, but unbelievable as i go for the rebound, he fouls me again! Another pen...........This time i decide not to aim either side before the run up, and as Pele runs up, i move the aim to the keepers right. It goes right down the middle and is saved hahahaha.

    He scores 2 quick goals, both good and not through ball related, but then i switch tactics and batter him for 70mins. Score one, then miss FIVE times when through 1 v 1. partly bad finishing, partly keeper moving, partly just Fifa making it very clear that 16 wins is my level.

    No point even playing the last 2 games. They are a foregone conclusion :)
  • JustFigureItOut
    27 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Nice post actually. It’s pretty much the same stuff I go through every WL. I am a E3 player at best, normally stop @ 14 wins though, except during TOTS I stopped @ 17 wins.

    Like you I had issues with the 4231 drop back 1 depth guys....It’s really bcuz people hate getting countered and it’s not easy to defend so they resort to this tactic. Interesting how even when you are leading they refuse to change their tactic.

    Anyways the best thing is to use the same thing they use but if you don’t then 442, 4222 and 41212 narrow (to an extent) does work well but it’s all about how you use them. So here is the trick that works for me - For both your strikers DO NOT PUT THEM ON - Get in Behind - or Stay Forward. Why? It makes them stay closer to your opponents defensive line and allows defenders to step up to intercept passes as well as doesn’t make them have good positioning in the opponents box bcuz they are so deep in the final third. takes them out of the game basically. Just keep strikers on balanced, patient build up, and look for your strikers to step away from defenders and take more one time shots in the final third.

    Defensively, I play 3-4 depth with fast defenders and I track runs on the counter, if you attack with your wingbacks then they will be out of position on the counter. You can always step across with your fullbacks to slow down the counter but you have to be good with selecting defenders and positioning. If you are not then keep wingbacks on Stay back while attacking, but always follow runs to prevent through balls. You won’t prevent all goals but will keep out some of the cheap ones.

    All the best!
  • Salvatori
    683 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Well, despite my next game being against an absolute la croqueta skilling ***, i did pick up the mystical 17th win. At least he played 41212 but all he did was constant croqueta chains. Luckily for me, it also meant he had no ability to defend whatsoever.

    But my favourite part of the entire night, was the pen in my last game. I was messing about, intending to give away the win anyway, but playing a bit for fun in the first half...........this happens :D Absolute vintage fifa.

    I mean, dont get me wrong, the actual foul is a pen but the sequence leading up it :D :D :D

  • lippyone
    880 posts Semi-Pro
    Reality is you will end up on the same total whatever you do, because as soon as you do better than normal you will get beaten back by stronger opposition.

    I try to be careful against the drop back 4231. I put defence on 4 depth and go only 2 in box on penalties, and try to avoid over extending. They want you to attack so wait until they attack you and hit them hard on the counter. Bore them into attacking.

    One thing is the 4231 brigade also tend to be the same people who exploit all the skills, they care only about winning, which makes them annoying to play against. Probably the sort of idiot who tell everyone to git gud, and send childish messages.
  • lippyone
    880 posts Semi-Pro
    Nickrunthefutmarket put out a video on 352 which according to him is good for drawing the defenders away when opponent is sitting back using 4231. Might be worth checking out
  • Murphdogz
    1399 posts Play-Off Hero
    Salvatori wrote: »
    So WL, usual fare. I will end up on 15 wins, but thats by the by. Played 21 so far and in there a mix of:

    Easy wins - i have a super team and sometimes that just shows
    Absolute spankings - Sometimes matchmaking aint kind. I am a G3 player so G1 or Elite just destroy me and thats cool
    Lagfests - Few this weekend where it was pretty clear a one side connection decided the game - both in my favour and not. It is what it is
    Great games - Actually a good 5 or 6 this weekend where i enjoyed it. In those i would say i am 3 - 3. Good game of fifa with no broken mechanics, just 2 decent matched players and sometimes i win, sometimes i lose

    Then there is the worst:

    4231 sheep - Every single time this WL i have faced a 4231 player with clearly Drop back and 1/1 with fast build up, i lose. Sometimes i lose 5 or 6 nil because every time they attack via a through ball to wide CAMs, my defenders dont track it, or they are just in behind because of it. Meanwhile my patient build up play is useless against them with everyone back behind the ball. If i dont lose 5 nil (usualy i give up at 3 in these games as its so obvious), then its worse - i smash them all game but still get beat.

    My last game a great case in point. Here are the full time stats:

    c78aa5543c8a3499fb53cbad4968750d.png


    Personally, i always ignore shot counts - mean nothing. He brought on Ibra and spammed long shots so he could aim corners at him. But the possession shows that whilst it was hardly a totally one sided game, i was better. But more than that is the pass completion rate. I mean this guy had a 72% completion rate (it was actual 69% at 90mins!) - shows exactly his style. Try through balls all the time.

    Yet i lose this game on pens. Sorry for the length, but here are the 4 goals in the game:

    Me - Ok, there is an argument this is a first time shot abuse, but its a FK routine i use often. Short, pop it off then smash it. I will happily admit there is good fortune in this going in off Carlos's 2 star WF :D But this guys defense approach was constant foul me, so i have no issue with scoring a goal like this



    Him - 81 mins and its his first corner as you see at the start, that says something. I clear the first one, but it always goes to an opponent when i do. Ok maybe not the best initial tackle attempt on Zlat, but then he spams a long shot to get another corner, and scores it when my man on the line is about as usefull as a parking cone



    So now to ET, and from my own goal kick, i take the time to work a move. Dunno how many passes, but i think this counts as a decent goal, playing fifa the proper way? I mean his defending is not great but i think its reasonably well worked?



    Now to his - Ok, so you could call this well worked, its not a bad move........but its how 90% of 4231 sheep score against me at the moment - through balls that my AI defenders wont track. As per usual player switching does me zero favours.......but these through balls man



    SO at the end of that absolute essay....... What is the advice for non Elite players on how to do better against these clowns? I vary my approach - this game mostly 352, but i flip to 433 and 41212(2) when the game calls for it - like previous game guy was spaming long air balls to his wingers against a back 3, so switch to 41212 and had him rage quiting within 30mins. I just cant for hte life of me stop these stupid quick counters and through balls from this type of sheep player.

    Is there really no way other than to join them? Play the same shape and approach against them? I cant bring myself to do that.........

    I had this same issue.
    Everyone pretty much changed to this formation and lost against it more than I win
    Then I found if you put midfields on cover wing this helps a bit.
    I found 4141 with wingers on stay forward and 2 CMS on get forward the 4231 struggles a little bit.
    Bit if your playing someone really good that's using this formation I put fullbacks on get forward aswell but leave the CDM on stay back.you get alot more attacks this way.
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