EA: They’re not loot boxes, they’re “surprise mechanics,” and they’re “quite ethical”

Comments

  • CeeQue
    10966 posts Has That Special Something
    Your best fight is to not buy the game period. Plus its needs some massive negative feedback. It amazes me how every year these games get 8+ game ratings by game magazines/sites/reviewers.
  • Arsence
    146 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    I feel I'm the only one who actually likes packs/luck-based rewards.

    I do feel however that there should be measures put in place, just like the limits on betting terminals.

    I'd say a weekly maximum of £20 can be put into an account, and far more stringent controls in place to stop people getting around these rules.
  • Pocketsquareguy
    5206 posts Big Money Move
    It’s definitely a surprise mechanic. I’m surprised, more like stunned when I get something decent.
  • lIlIlIlIlIl
    3267 posts National Call-Up
    CeeQue wrote: »
    Your best fight is to not buy the game period. Plus its needs some massive negative feedback. It amazes me how every year these games get 8+ game ratings by game magazines/sites/reviewers.

    The major reviewers are bought and the independent ones merely offer an inconclusive, glib narrative based off a few light-hearted kick-off games and career mode at best, over a beer with a friend.
  • bberger
    5164 posts Big Money Move
    edited June 20
    CeeQue wrote: »
    Your best fight is to not buy the game period. Plus its needs some massive negative feedback. It amazes me how every year these games get 8+ game ratings by game magazines/sites/reviewers.

    The major reviewers are bought and the independent ones merely offer an inconclusive, glib narrative based off a few light-hearted kick-off games and career mode at best, over a beer with a friend.

    I can attest to that first hand.

    I don't know about EA, but if they are buying them off (which I suspect), they aren't the only ones doing that. It's pretty common, especially with hardware factories.
  • Rename123456
    95 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Rich2015 wrote: »
    At the end of the day its not just EA that are to blame here

    The community are partly to blame for this by accepting it.The Battlefront community stood up and it changed things.I see post's on here with people actually defending the gambling and its just bizzare.

    This game would have got a lot better if the community had rode the wave that battlefront 2 created and stood up to these greedy unethical practices.

    Fifa 19 is a shambles and its a product of greed

    The game could be balanced and fair without the pay for an advantage and gambling with it being more balanced in favour of player enjoyment if EA needed this to sell copies of Fifa....Just like games used to be






    We can't stand up as a community when we have Castro, Bateson and much more in it.
  • omarnyc
    3609 posts National Call-Up
    CeeQue wrote: »
    Your best fight is to not buy the game period. Plus its needs some massive negative feedback. It amazes me how every year these games get 8+ game ratings by game magazines/sites/reviewers.

    Well I assume most of the reviews are paid for lol but I agree that best thing would be not buying the game at all but that won't happen. If people stops spending high amount of money on the packs i bet this will change
  • MUFC_420
    1873 posts Play-Off Hero
    As an ex gambler, I can tell you that packing a high rated card (icon, Ronaldo, etc) is the exact feeling you get when you win a jackpot. I've won dozens of jackpots at casinos (highest was 20k).

    The only difference, is you don't log off fifa with pockets full of cash. With fp, you can never really "win". If you spend $500 on fp and pack 5mil in coins you still lost...

    I've said this alot on here this year. I was also an addicted gambler for alot of years up until a few years back and packs in this game definitely resemble gambling. If you pack something good you get the same highs as winning a bet and when you get disappointment from packs it's the same feeling as losing a bet. In both cases you are putting real money upfront with an uncertainty of what you're getting for your money. Packs are definitely a form of gambling imo.

    If a casino had a machine that say for example you had to spend £1 for a spin but tells you everything you could win and even the probability of each amount ranging from 50p to £100 and you win something each time, do you think kids could come in and play this or would it still be for over 18s? I think we all know the answer here. This is no different from opening packs for those who say but sure you know what you're getting.
  • Rename123456
    95 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    They said that UT Packs are like Kinder eggs, right? Those chocolates are banned in the USA if I'm not mistaken, plus I remember that I used to buy them for the chocolate, not the toy LOL
  • Staxdoobie
    680 posts An Exciting Prospect
    They said that UT Packs are like Kinder eggs, right? Those chocolates are banned in the USA if I'm not mistaken, plus I remember that I used to buy them for the chocolate, not the toy LOL

    I believe they've been reintroduced in the last few years, but they were originally banned because of the choking hazard (nothing to do with the gamble of what you might get).
  • Dth83
    102 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    As someone who used to have a serious gambling addiction, I can categorically tell that stupid woman that they've purposefully created a mechanic that triggers the same exact feelings as real money gambling... they know full well it does, what would be the point otherwise if it didnt get people addicted or at least the vulnerable ones.

    -fifa points are like the credits in slot machines... they're there so you don't focus on how much money you're losing... because they're just "virtual points"

    -the pack animation creates suspense, just like slot machines have tricks that dramatise a potential win.

    -the frustration that comes from not packing someone helps the opening of the next pack

    -creating a "time and pack amount limit" during lightning rounds adds incentive and panic

    -SBCs are disguised gifts, meant to dilute your winnings

    -when there's no content on certain day, it creates withdrawal symptoms in many players , because like Pavlov's dogs, we have been trained to be there at 6uk time for a treat.

    - the promotion through content creators of the "jackpot" illusion... making everyone think it could be you next!

    - content creators spending absurd amounts of money, making whale-like spending seem normal, mundane.

    - keeping information very secret helps the creation superstitions, a gambler's favourite tool, nose pack, opening packs on one platform or another, different times etc...makes the addict think he's found a loophole

    I mean the list goes on

    and i'm no shrink, a real shrink would go on and on and on.

    This is so spot on.
  • Lulz
    185 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    People love surprises admittedly... that much is true. But I’m not sure comparing a child in a toy store spending a fiver on a plastic dinosaur is a good analogy of UT

    A more fitting analogy would be a fully grown man spending several hundred or thousand on a mystery box from eBay only to discover its full of dead flies and used condoms.

    But hey, SURPRISE! People love surprises!

  • Floatingkeyboard
    1064 posts Professional
    As someone who used to have a serious gambling addiction, I can categorically tell that stupid woman that they've purposefully created a mechanic that triggers the same exact feelings as real money gambling... they know full well it does, what would be the point otherwise if it didnt get people addicted or at least the vulnerable ones.

    -fifa points are like the credits in slot machines... they're there so you don't focus on how much money you're losing... because they're just "virtual points"

    -the pack animation creates suspense, just like slot machines have tricks that dramatise a potential win.

    -the frustration that comes from not packing someone helps the opening of the next pack

    -creating a "time and pack amount limit" during lightning rounds adds incentive and panic

    -SBCs are disguised gifts, meant to dilute your winnings

    -when there's no content on certain day, it creates withdrawal symptoms in many players , because like Pavlov's dogs, we have been trained to be there at 6uk time for a treat.

    - the promotion through content creators of the "jackpot" illusion... making everyone think it could be you next!

    - content creators spending absurd amounts of money, making whale-like spending seem normal, mundane.

    - keeping information very secret helps the creation superstitions, a gambler's favourite tool, nose pack, opening packs on one platform or another, different times etc...makes the addict think he's found a loophole

    I mean the list goes on

    and i'm no shrink, a real shrink would go on and on and on.
    As someone who used to have a serious gambling addiction, I can categorically tell that stupid woman that they've purposefully created a mechanic that triggers the same exact feelings as real money gambling... they know full well it does, what would be the point otherwise if it didnt get people addicted or at least the vulnerable ones.

    -fifa points are like the credits in slot machines... they're there so you don't focus on how much money you're losing... because they're just "virtual points"

    -the pack animation creates suspense, just like slot machines have tricks that dramatise a potential win.

    -the frustration that comes from not packing someone helps the opening of the next pack

    -creating a "time and pack amount limit" during lightning rounds adds incentive and panic

    -SBCs are disguised gifts, meant to dilute your winnings

    -when there's no content on certain day, it creates withdrawal symptoms in many players , because like Pavlov's dogs, we have been trained to be there at 6uk time for a treat.

    - the promotion through content creators of the "jackpot" illusion... making everyone think it could be you next!

    - content creators spending absurd amounts of money, making whale-like spending seem normal, mundane.

    - keeping information very secret helps the creation superstitions, a gambler's favourite tool, nose pack, opening packs on one platform or another, different times etc...makes the addict think he's found a loophole

    I mean the list goes on

    and i'm no shrink, a real shrink would go on and on and on.
    Quality post right here
  • Thunder001
    470 posts Sunday League Hero
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.
  • Hobes27
    4 posts Ball Boy
    Their argument is that it is fun and people enjoy it.

    Gambling is fun and people enjoy it. Packs are the same thing as slot machines. No different. They are fun and activate endorphins is the user.

    There is no way packs are not gambling, the design is based on slot machines. If loot boxes are not banned, they should not be in E for everyone games. You have a real life gambling system in your game, it should automatically be rated Mature.
  • Kiido
    533 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Arsence wrote: »
    I feel I'm the only one who actually likes packs/luck-based rewards.

    I do feel however that there should be measures put in place, just like the limits on betting terminals.

    I'd say a weekly maximum of £20 can be put into an account, and far more stringent controls in place to stop people getting around these rules.

    What does that 20 quid get you on Fifa in general? 25k or something?

    Lol
  • Staxdoobie
    680 posts An Exciting Prospect
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    This is the second utterly unhelpful post I’ve encountered from you in the last 30 seconds. You do understand the nature of addiction, right?
  • omarnyc
    3609 posts National Call-Up
    Staxdoobie wrote: »
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    This is the second utterly unhelpful post I’ve encountered from you in the last 30 seconds. You do understand the nature of addiction, right?

    I dont think he understands the problem
  • Diem
    178 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Staxdoobie wrote: »
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    This is the second utterly unhelpful post I’ve encountered from you in the last 30 seconds. You do understand the nature of addiction, right?

    We don't ban alcohol because a there are alcoholics. We don't ban fruit machines because there are gambling addicts.
  • Diem
    178 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    gizzzzy wrote: »
    Diem wrote: »
    Staxdoobie wrote: »
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    This is the second utterly unhelpful post I’ve encountered from you in the last 30 seconds. You do understand the nature of addiction, right?

    We don't ban alcohol because a there are alcoholics. We don't ban fruit machines because there are gambling addicts.

    We do for kids...

    True. But "won't someone think about the children" isn't where the majority have been going with this thread.

    Plus since you need a credit card to buy points, to buy packs, I'd say (as a parent) that there's a degree of parental responsibility required.

    My son spent £15 of his accumulated pocket money (with my permission) and got nothing, and cried. Lesson learned, he's not bought any packs in the years since. He also see how little I get from my weekly rewards, so can see the drop rate.
  • omarnyc
    3609 posts National Call-Up
    gizzzzy wrote: »
    Diem wrote: »
    Staxdoobie wrote: »
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    This is the second utterly unhelpful post I’ve encountered from you in the last 30 seconds. You do understand the nature of addiction, right?

    We don't ban alcohol because a there are alcoholics. We don't ban fruit machines because there are gambling addicts.

    We do for kids...

    Also there are regulations even if you are an adult
  • Lulz
    185 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    Thunder001 wrote: »
    Simple answer. If you don't like the packs. DON'T BUY THEM. The choice is YOURS.

    Such a narrow minded thing to say bud.

    I have never bought fifa points, not even once since fifa 09 or whatever it was.

    The problem is that if they are in the game, and people are buying them, then EA’s focus isn’t on gameplay. They focus on how to get as much money as possible. That means gameplay gets overlooked and we have the shiiiiiietshow of fifa 19 being created.

    Anyone can beat anyone, skill is irrelevant, they boost you and lie to you to incentivize you to buy.

    The entire game is a con to take peoples money.

  • Torn4do
    738 posts Semi-Pro
    IxToMxI wrote: »
    From the BBC's website tonight, reporting discussions today in a British government meeting about gaming

    "Both games companies [EA and Epic] were questioned as the government is currently looking into how harmful social media and online gaming can be for young people - its safety plans are known as the Online Harms White Paper.

    EA was asked by the committee about games addiction and how long users could spend playing things like Fifa.

    Shaun Campbell, who is EA's UK manager, said he himself sometimes spent around half an hour a day playing, saying the game was designed "to be engaging and fun to play".

    "We want players to take a healthy and balanced approach to playing games, just like anything else.
    "If you look at Fifa players, they are competitive and some want a career in E-Sports so they practise and spend time playing the game. It's about what feels out of balance for an individual," he added."

    (so no mention of how weekend league "encourages" you to play at least 3 hours a day (assuming no rage quits) over three days of the weekend to qualify you for the best rewards)

    He’s factually correct, your statement is factually incorrect.

    The game doesn’t force you to play over a weekend, it also doesn’t force you to play during the week.

    Your desire to play shouldn’t be confused here.

    Gaming is irrelevant for government in honesty, social media is far more problematic for the youth population than gaming imo.

    That’s nonsense.......

    The game is totally designed to make people play more, WL, DR and Squad Battles are set up in such a way as to make you play more.

    The rewards are based around how much you play.....

    They may as well say ‘we’re not FORCING you to play often, but if you DON’T play often you won’t get the good rewards, and you will fall behind the player that DO play more often’ if that’s not encouraging people to play for long periods I don’t know what is.

    Is animal nature to act this way..... plenty of experiments have shown that if you get an animal to carry out a task and reward them each time they do it, they will do it more and more. Rewards based gaming is exactly this.



  • Queens11
    346 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited June 21
    Just a desperate attempt to justify the shady and I think barely legal practices

    Imo ea are predators and praying on children and vulnerable adults around the world the odds this year shown on packs are vague at best the less than <1% really got me
    How corrupt and unethical does a company have to be even if shown at a 1% chance the odds are still stacked in their favour yet they have to take it to the extreme and try to milk everything they can which is just wrong imo
    as the odds never change regardless if u buy 100 packs or 1
  • Torn4do
    738 posts Semi-Pro
    Queens11 wrote: »
    Just a desperate attempt to justify the shady and I think barely legal practices

    Imo ea are predators and praying on children and vulnerable adults around the world the odds this year shown on packs are vague at best the less than <1% really got me
    How corrupt and unethical does a company have to be even if shown at a 1% chance the odds are still stacked in their favour yet they have to take it to the extreme and try to milk everything they can which is just wrong imo

    What the lady in the clip failed to say was that when people buy these surprise toy boxes that they will state on the box that there will be a certain minimum value for that box, for example when someone buys a $25 surprise toy the value will be a minimum of $25.

    If the packs were advertised and sold in a way that it said the packs opened will have a minimum value of the coin cost to buy them then I’d say they have a good argument, but they don’t! Maybe even if it stated that when you open a pack it will be worth a minimum of 70% the pack cost then I’d have to say it is a lot fairer to the consumer.

    Let’s face it, even slot machines state the % payout in terms of value!
  • Queens11
    346 posts Sunday League Hero
    Torn4do wrote: »
    Queens11 wrote: »
    Just a desperate attempt to justify the shady and I think barely legal practices

    Imo ea are predators and praying on children and vulnerable adults around the world the odds this year shown on packs are vague at best the less than <1% really got me
    How corrupt and unethical does a company have to be even if shown at a 1% chance the odds are still stacked in their favour yet they have to take it to the extreme and try to milk everything they can which is just wrong imo

    What the lady in the clip failed to say was that when people buy these surprise toy boxes that they will state on the box that there will be a certain minimum value for that box, for example when someone buys a $25 surprise toy the value will be a minimum of $25.

    If the packs were advertised and sold in a way that it said the packs opened will have a minimum value of the coin cost to buy them then I’d say they have a good argument, but they don’t! Maybe even if it stated that when you open a pack it will be worth a minimum of 70% the pack cost then I’d have to say it is a lot fairer to the consumer.

    Let’s face it, even slot machines state the % payout in terms of value!

    Slot machines are now regulated though the gaming industry is just getting looked at now
  • Torn4do
    738 posts Semi-Pro
    Queens11 wrote: »
    Torn4do wrote: »
    Queens11 wrote: »
    Just a desperate attempt to justify the shady and I think barely legal practices

    Imo ea are predators and praying on children and vulnerable adults around the world the odds this year shown on packs are vague at best the less than <1% really got me
    How corrupt and unethical does a company have to be even if shown at a 1% chance the odds are still stacked in their favour yet they have to take it to the extreme and try to milk everything they can which is just wrong imo

    What the lady in the clip failed to say was that when people buy these surprise toy boxes that they will state on the box that there will be a certain minimum value for that box, for example when someone buys a $25 surprise toy the value will be a minimum of $25.

    If the packs were advertised and sold in a way that it said the packs opened will have a minimum value of the coin cost to buy them then I’d say they have a good argument, but they don’t! Maybe even if it stated that when you open a pack it will be worth a minimum of 70% the pack cost then I’d have to say it is a lot fairer to the consumer.

    Let’s face it, even slot machines state the % payout in terms of value!

    Slot machines are now regulated though the gaming industry is just getting looked at now

    Slot machines have stated on them for as long as I can remember the average payout, I know the government has taken it further by reducing the bet sizes.

    I welcome the regulation of the gaming industry as far as loot boxes are concerned.
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