Talking Points #2 - To VAR or not to VAR?

1
Alastair
9986 posts Moderator
edited February 6
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Welcome to this weeks edition of Talking Points. After a successful start last week in which there was universal agreement that FA Cup Replays should not be scrapped, this week we discuss the hottest issue in football, VAR.

Football has long been blighted with contentious decisions. From England's 'Kit Kat' goal against Germany in the 1966 World Cup Final to Frank Lampard's Ghost goal when the two sides met during the 2010 World Cup, people have always called for a better way to decide issues like this. Video Assistant Referee (VAR) is now being rolled out across the world with last summer's FIFA World Cup, the Bundesliga and the last two editions of the FA Cup being some of the first competitions to make use of this new technology.

Next season it'll be rolled out in the Premier League but despite it's many benefits, some fans are not pleased with this news. Some fans site the long delays between an incident happening and the decision being mad. This was best shown by last season's Bundesliga incident where both teams were already in the dressing rooms for half time when the referee was made aware a penalty should have been awarded with the last play of the half. Some fans complain about the exclusivity of it's use, shown in the FA Cup where it is only used at Premier League grounds. Everton were knocked out of the FA Cup by Milwall last week but had the match been at Goodison Park instead of The Den, VAR would likely have kept them in the competition.

Whilst it looks almost certain that VAR will be implemented there are lots of debates about how it should be implemented. Suggestions range from only for goals to all refereeing decisions. Others have suggested giving managers a limited number of challenges (similar to Tennis or the NFL) which they can use during the match.

What about you? Do you love VAR or loathe it? How do you think it should be implemented? Debate your views on VAR below in this edition of Talking Points.



Previous Talking Points:
#1 Should FA Cup Replays Be Scrapped?
#2 To VAR or not to VAR?



If you have an idea for a future Talking Points topic please send me a PM.
Post edited by EA_Andy on

Comments

  • Hippyboy6
    16858 posts World Class
    Given the standard of officiating, it has to come in. The West ham game this being the perfect example, had Origi scored in the dying seconds it could of actually decided the league title. Neither of those offsides were even close calls.
  • ha032742
    34895 posts Moderator
    Hippyboy6 wrote: »
    Given the standard of officiating, it has to come in. The West ham game this being the perfect example, had Origi scored in the dying seconds it could of actually decided the league title. Neither of those offsides were even close calls.

    Yeah I think that match emphasised to me the need for VAR especially when things like being relegated or winning the league are decided by fine margins.
  • EA_Andy
    2991 posts EA Community Manager
    I'm of the opinion that it's something that is needed.

    It's not perfect and does take time in some situations but better to come to the correct decision for me.

    I would hope that as it's used more and more they would become more efficient and faster at it.

    At the very least it has to make decisions which can't be argued about, i.e offsides.
  • Andy99TradeZ
    13648 posts Has That Special Something
    It's needed but won't please everyone
  • Currieman
    4918 posts National Call-Up
    It is 100% needed but yes it needs to be implemented correctly. That will be the hard bit.
  • Mounaldo
    53 posts Park Captain
    VAR needs to stay. It might not be perfect yet, but initial teething issues are to be expected with any new system. It can only get better with time. Works like a dream in rugby and tennis.

    I think it's just a question of optimising the logistics of it - whether it's used reactively or proactively, and how to best communicate between referee, VAR and spectators.
  • BiigDee
    4332 posts National Call-Up
    100% definitely. I was at the Game last night where we beat Boro in the FA Cup and we should have had a penalty for handball, clear and blatant hand ball which if we scored could have gave us the lead. Granted we went on and won but just say we had lost 1-0 it would of been wrong.

    What I asked a few weeks ago is if introduced into every league will we see it in FIFA?
  • jhonps3
    1695 posts Fans' Favourite
    Var
  • Bruges Army
    658 posts An Exciting Prospect
    The VAR is a good thing, IF it get's implemented in a professional way.

    The Belgian league is pretty much the example of how not to use it:
    - Here, the VAR sits in a van next to the stadium, from where he can communicate with the ref. It has happened multiple times that there have been technical issues and the VAR wasn't available for a certain period during the game.
    - The people in the van are people who took a course, with few refereeing experience on the field. They also have fragments played at x0.25 speed for example, which makes every foul look alot worse. This already led to alot of red cards, whereas yellow would suffice.
    - If the VAR doesn't want to call it, he can tell the ref to come look at the screen, which usually takes a lot of time. I've seen situations where a VAR interception took 6 (!) minutes.
    - In Belgium, the VAR can't overrule the ref. If the ref is clearly wrong, but he doesn't want the VAR's opinion, the VAR isn't allowed to correct the ref and tell him he's wrong. This leads to the fact that there will still be alot of grave errors in refereeing the game. An example of a penalty situation from last weekend, where the ref didn't want the VAR to intervene:
    2aa8b69664608529ec02f052bd1d9720.gif

    So i repeat my statement: the VAR can improve the game, if it's used in a professional way. Don't expect the VAR to be flawless in every situaion, because he won't, especially not in the first season(s) in which he's used.
  • 1337
    542 posts An Exciting Prospect
    In my opinion the mistakes that refrees make is a part of being human. I absolutely hated when my team conceived a goal from off side or when we should get a penalty, but I also enjoyed when that happened to the other team. It's just a part of being humans.

    I'd say that VAR should be used only in big competitions such as UCL or WC but leave ligues alone.
  • Clancy
    7734 posts League Winner
    It will get better. Just like with the goal line technology, soon there will be machine learning products that will be able to decide on a correct/incorrect offsides decision in the blink of an eye.

    Then the ref can have a watch that buzzes when he likely made and error, and he can go take a second look.
  • Orikoru
    10712 posts Has That Special Something
    VAR should definitely be in football, but they're currently getting it wrong. At the World Cup it was decent but even then they over-relied upon on it.

    It should only be used for goals where there is potential doubt about an offside/foul, penalty decisions, and straight red cards, and in all of those it should only be when the referee feels he didn't have a clear view of it, and then he asks for the VAR. What we don't want is refs second-guessing themselves and double checking everything which would take forever.
  • Tornado31619
    15724 posts World Class
    Orikoru wrote: »
    VAR should definitely be in football, but they're currently getting it wrong. At the World Cup it was decent but even then they over-relied upon on it.

    It should only be used for goals where there is potential doubt about an offside/foul, penalty decisions, and straight red cards, and in all of those it should only be when the referee feels he didn't have a clear view of it, and then he asks for the VAR. What we don't want is refs second-guessing themselves and double checking everything which would take forever.

    Just to follow up on this, if a ref is using VAR to look for a red card, then he should either produce a red or nothing at all. Because the booking against CR7 at the WC (coupled with the penalty) basically sent Portugal out.

    Maybe I’m biased, but still :lol:
  • Ahmer50x
    16216 posts World Class
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.
  • Alastair
    9986 posts Moderator
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.
  • Jobiwan
    3041 posts National Call-Up
    Think its great its finally being implemented across the game, about bloody time. There will still be arguments on the subjective issues like if there was enough contact to go down etc. but will stop the ridiculously bad decisions...
  • Caiden
    37 posts Last Pick at the Park
    Combination of the above options is best. Let managers have 2-3 calls a game where they can call for VAR. Only to be used where it was a straight red, penalty conceded or a goal conceded.

    Let refs call VAR for the same reasons at their discretion, but the responsibility for calling VAR is mostly with the managers.
  • ICUP
    3906 posts National Call-Up
    Hard to be fair.

    Today’s referees are unbelievably trash but at the same time VAR is being mis-used and it sucks the fun out the game.

    Would prefer if we just had a better calibre of officials than implementing VAR into the game
  • Ahmer50x
    16216 posts World Class
    Alastair wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.

    Well, scoring plays and red cards are natural stoppages so no issues there.

    Now that I think about it, you don't really need to give the managers challenges because there's not much else to challenge? Maybe yellows/corners or something but those are also natural stoppages?
  • BiigDee
    4332 posts National Call-Up
    Alastair wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.

    It’s never been non stop, that’s why refs have whistles. That’s why you play to the whistle
  • Alastair
    9986 posts Moderator
    BiigDee wrote: »
    Alastair wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.

    It’s never been non stop, that’s why refs have whistles. That’s why you play to the whistle

    VAR seems to take at least 2 minutes to make a decision. There is barely a single incident where play stops for that long.
  • Ahmer50x
    16216 posts World Class
    Alastair wrote: »
    BiigDee wrote: »
    Alastair wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.

    It’s never been non stop, that’s why refs have whistles. That’s why you play to the whistle

    VAR seems to take at least 2 minutes to make a decision. There is barely a single incident where play stops for that long.

    I'm happy to extend the time between a goal/red and restarting play from 30 seconds to 2 minutes if it means we get the key decisions right.
  • Altough its not the premier league, but remeber the not given penalty for Chelsea against Barcelona, history could may be written in Chelseas favour.

    Actually impletenting VAR now in the CL is a must in my opinion and for the premier league next season.
  • bberger
    5104 posts Big Money Move
    VAR is badly needed, but most implement it bloody wrong. Needs to be more loke the NFL so you can only challenge fact decisions (offsides, corners, goals) - no judgement calls like the tone of a card or foul/no foul. Possibly I'd like to include in-the-box/out-of-the box foul placement but that should be about it.

    And it needs to be unified rule-wise across UEFA and FIFA based competitions and leagues.
  • DaMMian
    632 posts An Exciting Prospect
    100% Football needs VAR, so many goals scored from off-sides, so many penalty's referee don't see etc.
  • Rossi1000
    455 posts Sunday League Hero
    Liverpool have scored 11 offside goals this season and been awarded 9 penalties so far.
    I think it’s time for var personally
  • DSD27
    5630 posts Big Money Move
    edited February 7
    VAR is better than No VAR, but even VAR makes "mistakes" in favor of some clubs, the same clubs that were favored before, not much changed.
  • Milkybar
    131 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    With the amount of big decisions the refs get wrong VAR is needed. Shud not be getting points from games from clear offside goals or red cards that refs have got horribly wrong, refs seem to be making more and more errors recently somthing is deffo needed


    1 thing i have never understood why an earth with all the money in football they simply dont have more officials around the pitch more eyes more chance off spotting things

    #1337 some ppl consider winning your league to be just as important as ucl

  • Danieldo
    171 posts Has Potential To Be Special
    edited February 8
    Alastair wrote: »
    BiigDee wrote: »
    Alastair wrote: »
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    Personally, I support a system where all scoring plays and red cards are automatically reviewed by VAR.

    Anything else, give the coaches a few challenges for.

    What about the time issue? Football is a non-stop game. Constant reviews like that works in NFL because it has a natural stop-start rhythm.

    It’s never been non stop, that’s why refs have whistles. That’s why you play to the whistle

    VAR seems to take at least 2 minutes to make a decision. There is barely a single incident where play stops for that long.

    Just look at the dutch Eredivisie, VAR is there every game and the VAR results in stopping for 1 or 2 min sometimes. Its not a problem.

    Sometimes the play just goes on and than when ball goes out, the play gets stopped for some min. It happened last week, foul was made in penalty area, not seen by ref so play goes on. Other team scores within a min and after the goal ref blows to watch the foul. At the end, penalty was given and goal was canceled
  • UM4R
    3816 posts Moderator
    Similar to other sports each team should have like 2 challenges per match for each team and thats it. It's a good idea but the using of it for every single decision slows down the game too much.

    "Sometimes the play just goes on and than when ball goes out, the play gets stopped for some min. It happened last week, foul was made in penalty area, not seen by ref so play goes on. Other team scores within a min and after the goal ref blows to watch the foul. At the end, penalty was given and goal was canceled"

    stuff like this shouldnt happen
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