What Went Wrong With England?

13
Rhodesia
750 posts Semi-Pro
England only have 2 wins in the world cup thus far and have scored only 1 intentional goal from open play from 4 games. Shocking. Whilst they've managed to beat binmen in the shape of Tunisia and Panama, they've also lost against Belgium and drew and were outplayed against ColOmbia.

Given the side of the bracket they're on it'll obviously be an ultimate failure if they don't at least reach the final. But can this very average side improve enough playing against dross like Sweden, Croatia and Russia to the extent where they'll be able to beat one of Brazil, France, Belgium or Uruguay?

And even if they do, their World Cup victory will have literally been predicated off the back of 1 win. Will this massively false sense of achievement hinder the future development of English football?

Comments

  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.
  • Ahmer50x
    9419 posts League Winner
    Croatia and Sweden are solid sides.
  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.

  • Andy99TradeZ
    10424 posts Has That Special Something
    '1 intentional'

    Kane knows what he's doing on the heel shot
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.
  • RR_A10
    256 posts Sunday League Hero
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.

    Very wrong. Winning on penalties has always been a win. How can it be a draw when one team progresses and one doesn't.

    If you mean they haven't played well fair enough but to say winning on penalties isn't a win is just silly.
  • Rhodesia
    750 posts Semi-Pro
    edited July 4
    RR_A10 wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.

    Very wrong. Winning on penalties has always been a win. How can it be a draw when one team progresses and one doesn't.

    If you mean they haven't played well fair enough but to say winning on penalties isn't a win is just silly.
    It has never been classed as a win. The Laws of the Game literally class penalty shootouts as 1 of 3 methods used for “tie breaking”. A tie break is a method used to decide the outcome of a tied contest. England won the penalty shootout but drew the match. It’s exactly why as Martan stated official match reports show the outcome of the game as a tie and then also state the outcome of the penalty shootout separately.
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    RR_A10 wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.

    Very wrong. Winning on penalties has always been a win. How can it be a draw when one team progresses and one doesn't.

    If you mean they haven't played well fair enough but to say winning on penalties isn't a win is just silly.
    Silly? It’s a fact. :joy:
    The only person in the wrong here is you, pal.
  • G000ner
    3468 posts National Call-Up
    Rhodesia wrote: »
    RR_A10 wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.

    Very wrong. Winning on penalties has always been a win. How can it be a draw when one team progresses and one doesn't.

    If you mean they haven't played well fair enough but to say winning on penalties isn't a win is just silly.
    It has never been classed as a win. The Laws of the Game literally class penalty shootouts as 1 of 3 methods used for “tie breaking”. A tie break is a method used to decide the outcome of a tied contest. England won the penalty shootout but drew the match. It’s exactly why as Martan stated official match reports show the outcome of the game as a tie and then also state the outcome of the penalty shootout separately.

    This is stupid. The whole point of a penalty shoot out, as you mentioned, is to "break the tie". "In games and sports, a tiebreaker or tiebreak is used to determine a winner". Once England won the penalty shoot-out, the tie was broken and they won the game. It's the same principle in tennis- you can finish the set 6-6, but the set is ultimately won by whoever wins the tie break and the score will be shown as 7-6 in favour of the set winner. You can't tie a set, just like you can't draw in a knockout game in football. England were tied after 120 minutes, but the end result (after penalties) was a win.

    I agree that England haven't been great, but the only reason for that is the performances. In terms of results, we've won 3 out of 4, we're in the quarter finals and the only loss was when we fielded our B team in a game we didn't want to win.
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    edited July 5
    G000ner wrote: »
    Rhodesia wrote: »
    RR_A10 wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    ffs Martan wrote: »
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Tunisia , Panama, Colombia.

    That’s 3 wins.

    They drew with Colombia, pal.

    Won on penalties still classed as a win or else they wouldn’t be in the quarter finals?.
    ’winning’ on penalties has never been classed as a win. A penalty shootout is simply a decider to see which team progresses to the next round. Otherwise, the final score would have been England 5-4 Colombia. But it wasn’t, the match ended as a draw, and that’s final.

    Very wrong. Winning on penalties has always been a win. How can it be a draw when one team progresses and one doesn't.

    If you mean they haven't played well fair enough but to say winning on penalties isn't a win is just silly.
    It has never been classed as a win. The Laws of the Game literally class penalty shootouts as 1 of 3 methods used for “tie breaking”. A tie break is a method used to decide the outcome of a tied contest. England won the penalty shootout but drew the match. It’s exactly why as Martan stated official match reports show the outcome of the game as a tie and then also state the outcome of the penalty shootout separately.

    This is stupid. The whole point of a penalty shoot out, as you mentioned, is to "break the tie". "In games and sports, a tiebreaker or tiebreak is used to determine a winner". Once England won the penalty shoot-out, the tie was broken and they won the game. It's the same principle in tennis- you can finish the set 6-6, but the set is ultimately won by whoever wins the tie break and the score will be shown as 7-6 in favour of the set winner. You can't tie a set, just like you can't draw in a knockout game in football. England were tied after 120 minutes, but the end result (after penalties) was a win.

    I agree that England haven't been great, but the only reason for that is the performances. In terms of results, we've won 3 out of 4, we're in the quarter finals and the only loss was when we fielded our B team in a game we didn't want to win.
    A shoot-out is considered for statistical purposes to be separate from the match which preceded it. In the case of a two-legged fixture, the two matches are still considered either as two draws or as one win and one loss; in the case of a single match, it is still considered as a draw.
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    From UEFA, regarding calculation of coefficients:
    Points are awarded only for matches which have actually been played, in accordance with the results ratified by UEFA. Kicks from the penalty mark to determine which club qualifies or to determine the winners of a tie do not affect the actual result of the match.

    From FIFA, regarding the calculation of world rankings:
    To ensure that the formula is not only fair but simple, matches that are decided by a penalty shootout (which are considered draws under normal rules) result in the winning team receiving two points and the losing team one point.
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    edited July 5
    From the FA Laws of the Game:
    Kicks from the penalty mark are taken after the match has ended
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    From the IFAB Laws of the Game:
    The kicks from the penalty mark are not part of the match
  • Kellnerr
    1683 posts Play-Off Hero
    who cares though?
  • Rhodesia
    750 posts Semi-Pro
    Official FIFA Law 14

    HaHMj8l.png

    Penalty shootouts do not constitute part of the match. The match ended officially in a draw, England won just the penalty shootout and that allowed them to advance. They did not win the match.
  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    Still in the quarter finals :smile:
  • ffs Martan
    9771 posts League Winner
    Gervonta wrote: »
    Still in the quarter finals :smile:
    That is true. What is also true is that the only teams England have managed to beat so far have both been binmen. :)
  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    You can only beat what’s put in front of you :smile:
  • Arsenalfan97
    6299 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 5
    An ultimate failure if we don’t reach the final?? Wtf is this thread have I wandered into GD by mistake that’s usually the place for stupidity :D I feel like you seen everyone saying it’s coming home and think everyone is being serious we would be lucky to reach the final considering how we struggle against sides like Sweden who will sit in. And even if we make it past Sweden do you honestly think we will beat Croatia that midfield will ruin us.
  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    An ultimate failure if we don’t reach the final?? Wtf is this thread have I wandered into GD by mistake that’s usually the place for stupidity :D I feel like you seen everyone saying it’s coming home and think everyone is being serious we would be lucky to reach the final considering how we struggle against sides like Sweden who will sit in. And even if we make it past Sweden do you honestly think we will beat Croatia that midfield will ruin us.

    He’s basically very annoyed his own nation isn’t in the tournament.

    Like you said No one thinks we will win it we’re just having fun and a laugh considering we are currently doing much better than we have in recent years.
  • Adamski
    9612 posts League Winner
    edited July 5
    The major positive for me is the complete contrast in how we've played as a team and in attack compared to previous tournaments.
    So many times we'd struggle to get on the scoresheet and play absolute doggers football even against **** teams, this has been really refreshing.

    As for the teams we've played against, Tunisia should've been more comfortable, wasted too many chances but it was the first game so I wasn't concerned. Panama deserved that hammering, can't remember the last time we even scored 2+ in one game at a major tournament.
    Belgium game was fine by me, coming 2nd in the group was obviously more beneficial, possibly France after Brazil as opposed to Sweden then Rus/Croatia. I think everybody would rather have the latter.
    And then Colombia, they really did **** all for 90% of the game. Played like **** houses and it took a fantastic effort in the 93rd min for them to get a corner and score. 1st period of ET was worrying, they could've easily scored. 2nd period was the opposite, so I'm not buying any of the **** that say we didn't deserve to win. The Dier sub **** us, he really was terrible in the game and allowed them to get on top.

    Now we have Sweden and if we lose then yes I'd say it's a failure, we should easily have enough to see them off. This is the best run in years we've had of getting anywhere near the final and to bottle it against a subpar team would be a real let down.

    I don't think a semi final loss to Croatia would be an ultimate failure, they are a real strong side with some top players. If we lost to Russia then maybe you'd be right, but they all seem to be on PEPs
  • Rhodesia
    750 posts Semi-Pro
    edited July 5
    An ultimate failure if we don’t reach the final?? Wtf is this thread have I wandered into GD by mistake that’s usually the place for stupidity :D I feel like you seen everyone saying it’s coming home and think everyone is being serious we would be lucky to reach the final considering how we struggle against sides like Sweden who will sit in. And even if we make it past Sweden do you honestly think we will beat Croatia that midfield will ruin us.

    Literally who are Sweden? Half their squad is made up of lower league players. They're effectively a Championship division national team. As for Croatia, they beat a totally disjointed Argentina side at their lowest point in probably 20 years and suddenly they've become the biggest meme team. They finished 2nd in their qualification to Iceland, they were a penalty away from not even making these finals. They were played off the park by Denmark. As for Russia, they're are the lowest ranked team at these entire finals, in Russia they were almost universally called the poorest Russian side in at least living memory.

    England's run to final is made up of garbage bag sides. It'll be an embarrassment if they don't at least make the final.
    Gervonta wrote: »
    He’s basically very annoyed his own nation isn’t in the tournament.

    Like you said No one thinks we will win it we’re just having fun and a laugh considering we are currently doing much better than we have in recent years.

    Please correct your facts friendo, both of the nations I/my parents hail from are still in the tournament.
  • IntoxicatedSeal
    1349 posts Professional
    edited July 6
    Raheem Sterling being useless and Deli Alli losing his incredible diving abilities from last season. Just imagine how many goals Kane would have if Alli dived for those penalties as much as he does for spurs.

    Aside from that everything is going very well.
  • Gervonta
    2271 posts Fans' Favourite
    Rhodesia wrote: »
    An ultimate failure if we don’t reach the final?? Wtf is this thread have I wandered into GD by mistake that’s usually the place for stupidity :D I feel like you seen everyone saying it’s coming home and think everyone is being serious we would be lucky to reach the final considering how we struggle against sides like Sweden who will sit in. And even if we make it past Sweden do you honestly think we will beat Croatia that midfield will ruin us.

    Literally who are Sweden? Half their squad is made up of lower league players. They're effectively a Championship division national team. As for Croatia, they beat a totally disjointed Argentina side at their lowest point in probably 20 years and suddenly they've become the biggest meme team. They finished 2nd in their qualification to Iceland, they were a penalty away from not even making these finals. They were played off the park by Denmark. As for Russia, they're are the lowest ranked team at these entire finals, in Russia they were almost universally called the poorest Russian side in at least living memory.

    England's run to final is made up of garbage bag sides. It'll be an embarrassment if they don't at least make the final.
    Gervonta wrote: »
    He’s basically very annoyed his own nation isn’t in the tournament.

    Like you said No one thinks we will win it we’re just having fun and a laugh considering we are currently doing much better than we have in recent years.

    Please correct your facts friendo, both of the nations I/my parents hail from are still in the tournament.

    Yeah sure they are :lol:
  • SDoofus
    1757 posts Play-Off Hero
    It makes me laugh that people still haven't realised that it's coming home.
  • ViVaWhom
    5484 posts Big Money Move
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It makes me laugh that people still haven't realised that it's coming home.

    when England scrape to the final and finally get found out and be humiliated then you can atleast say you enjoyed the journey
  • SDoofus
    1757 posts Play-Off Hero
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    It makes me laugh that people still haven't realised that it's coming home.

    when England scrape to the final and finally get found out and be humiliated then you can atleast say you enjoyed the journey

    Are you English?
  • ViVaWhom
    5484 posts Big Money Move
    i am an english citizen
  • VagisilFC
    1251 posts Professional
    I want to know what happened against Colombia. It was complete role reversal.

    The South America team was defending hard and the European team was flopping all over the place. It looked like The great Gloucester Cheese roll there where so many English rolling around.
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