England

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  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    How is Henderson, Rice, Mount an attack minded midfield?

    On its own it’s not but on the wings you’ve got 2 forwards. You can’t play 3 forwards and a number 10, it leaves too much space in the middle. It’s about balance. It’s not like Winks and Henderson are full on Makele style defensive midfielders.

    I mean it was there for you to see with your own eyes what the problem was. If you can’t see that then I really don’t know what to say.

    I didn't watch the game, but on paper that doesn't look particularly attack minded. Seems like a classic 4231 to me with a one holding and one box to box in the pivot. Henderson is arguably not even a box to box- we were basically playing two defensive midfielders. Seems like more of a tactical problem than personnel. 433 probably suits us better anyway.

    You didn’t watch the game. Just leave it there then. No offence meant but you’ve not even seen it so how can you really comment on how it shaped up?

    Whether I watched the game or not is irrelevant. Henderson and Rice are defensive-minded players. Mount, Henderson and Rice is a perfectly acceptable midfield to be playing in a 4231. I'm not saying it worked, clearly it didn't and I didn't watch the game to see. I'm saying it was fine personnel wise. It would've been a tactical problem that left our midfield exposed

    And I’m telling you from a much better position to judge as I actually watched, that personnel wise it was not fine. You want to play that formation you need a real playmaker to drop into the midfield. Mount is good but he’s not a playmaker by any stretch.


    Chelsea play the same formation and Mount often plays as the #10. Clearly he's capable of playing in that position. Are you only judging his proficiency on this one game vs Czech Republic? Whether or not he's our best option there is another question- Maddison could be a better option for that role. Either way, it's not an attack minded trio by any stretch- that's the only point I'm trying to make. If it appeared that way then it was a tactical fault.

    Firstly I’ve made it pretty clear that I’m not against Mount as a player. Secondly, he’s impressed me more when he’s played in a front 3 at Chelsea. Thirdly he’s got Jorginho who can act as a playmaker which Mount just isn’t. Maybe if England had have played Winks it would have worked better.

    Look, I’m telling you there was way too much space between the midfield and the forward 4. It was totally disjointed. They are all good players but just didn’t suit the formation.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    Apollo wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    I think it’s important to have some perspective though. We tried something different and it’s not really worked. Rose is not international level anymore and we mustn’t be rushing the likes of Mount.

    Yeah I reckon we'll be back to the usual 433 for the next game after how bad that first half was. Maddison and Mount will just have to play in the 3 in all probability after that when they play.

    Something about Maddison irritates me but taking away my irrational dislike for the guy I think he’s far more suited to that formation than Mount.

    Which formation? Today's 4231 or the usual 433?

    Today’s. He’s a more rounded midfielder in my opinion. Just want to be clear though it’s not that I don’t like Mount as a player.

    Both are suited to the position in my opinion, it might simply be a case of inexperience for Mount. This is his first season in the PL and hes just started in international football, I think its expected that he has a few off days so early in his career at this level. Maddison should definitely be the first choice attacking midfielder we play, but Mount is a very capable backup.

    Perhaps you’re right but this season I think he’s looked better as part of a front 3
  • G000ner
    4412 posts National Call-Up
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    How is Henderson, Rice, Mount an attack minded midfield?

    On its own it’s not but on the wings you’ve got 2 forwards. You can’t play 3 forwards and a number 10, it leaves too much space in the middle. It’s about balance. It’s not like Winks and Henderson are full on Makele style defensive midfielders.

    I mean it was there for you to see with your own eyes what the problem was. If you can’t see that then I really don’t know what to say.

    I didn't watch the game, but on paper that doesn't look particularly attack minded. Seems like a classic 4231 to me with a one holding and one box to box in the pivot. Henderson is arguably not even a box to box- we were basically playing two defensive midfielders. Seems like more of a tactical problem than personnel. 433 probably suits us better anyway.

    You didn’t watch the game. Just leave it there then. No offence meant but you’ve not even seen it so how can you really comment on how it shaped up?

    Whether I watched the game or not is irrelevant. Henderson and Rice are defensive-minded players. Mount, Henderson and Rice is a perfectly acceptable midfield to be playing in a 4231. I'm not saying it worked, clearly it didn't and I didn't watch the game to see. I'm saying it was fine personnel wise. It would've been a tactical problem that left our midfield exposed

    And I’m telling you from a much better position to judge as I actually watched, that personnel wise it was not fine. You want to play that formation you need a real playmaker to drop into the midfield. Mount is good but he’s not a playmaker by any stretch.


    Chelsea play the same formation and Mount often plays as the #10. Clearly he's capable of playing in that position. Are you only judging his proficiency on this one game vs Czech Republic? Whether or not he's our best option there is another question- Maddison could be a better option for that role. Either way, it's not an attack minded trio by any stretch- that's the only point I'm trying to make. If it appeared that way then it was a tactical fault.

    Firstly I’ve made it pretty clear that I’m not against Mount as a player. Secondly, he’s impressed me more when he’s played in a front 3 at Chelsea. Thirdly he’s got Jorginho who can act as a playmaker which Mount just isn’t. Maybe if England had have played Winks it would have worked better.

    Look, I’m telling you there was way too much space between the midfield and the forward 4. It was totally disjointed. They are all good players but just didn’t suit the formation.

    You are probably right. If we want to play Mount we need someone as part of the pivot to link the midfield and attack. This might be the problem rather than the midfield being too attacking.

    I'm not sure if we really have anyone in the current squad who can do that. We could give Winks a go, but I'm not sure if he's the answer
  • Tornado31619
    17874 posts World Class
    edited October 11
    This is why people are talking about playing Trent in midfield. England are never going to be a solid defensive side, so why not just try to outscore teams?

    Or better yet, RLC?
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move

    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    G000ner wrote: »
    How is Henderson, Rice, Mount an attack minded midfield?

    On its own it’s not but on the wings you’ve got 2 forwards. You can’t play 3 forwards and a number 10, it leaves too much space in the middle. It’s about balance. It’s not like Winks and Henderson are full on Makele style defensive midfielders.

    I mean it was there for you to see with your own eyes what the problem was. If you can’t see that then I really don’t know what to say.

    I didn't watch the game, but on paper that doesn't look particularly attack minded. Seems like a classic 4231 to me with a one holding and one box to box in the pivot. Henderson is arguably not even a box to box- we were basically playing two defensive midfielders. Seems like more of a tactical problem than personnel. 433 probably suits us better anyway.

    You didn’t watch the game. Just leave it there then. No offence meant but you’ve not even seen it so how can you really comment on how it shaped up?

    Whether I watched the game or not is irrelevant. Henderson and Rice are defensive-minded players. Mount, Henderson and Rice is a perfectly acceptable midfield to be playing in a 4231. I'm not saying it worked, clearly it didn't and I didn't watch the game to see. I'm saying it was fine personnel wise. It would've been a tactical problem that left our midfield exposed

    And I’m telling you from a much better position to judge as I actually watched, that personnel wise it was not fine. You want to play that formation you need a real playmaker to drop into the midfield. Mount is good but he’s not a playmaker by any stretch.


    Chelsea play the same formation and Mount often plays as the #10. Clearly he's capable of playing in that position. Are you only judging his proficiency on this one game vs Czech Republic? Whether or not he's our best option there is another question- Maddison could be a better option for that role. Either way, it's not an attack minded trio by any stretch- that's the only point I'm trying to make. If it appeared that way then it was a tactical fault.

    Firstly I’ve made it pretty clear that I’m not against Mount as a player. Secondly, he’s impressed me more when he’s played in a front 3 at Chelsea. Thirdly he’s got Jorginho who can act as a playmaker which Mount just isn’t. Maybe if England had have played Winks it would have worked better.

    Look, I’m telling you there was way too much space between the midfield and the forward 4. It was totally disjointed. They are all good players but just didn’t suit the formation.

    You are probably right. If we want to play Mount we need someone as part of the pivot to link the midfield and attack. This might be the problem rather than the midfield being too attacking.

    I'm not sure if we really have anyone in the current squad who can do that. We could give Winks a go, but I'm not sure if he's the answer

    Winks is the only answer we have currently. I actually think he’s ok. He can set a tempo to a game. Don’t get me wrong though, we could really do with something better coming along!
  • Apollo
    16258 posts World Class
    edited October 11
    For me, either in the usual 433 or the 4231 it doesn't matter, our best midfield is Rice - Winks - Maddison. Maddison is our most creative midfielder and he's shown he can play at 10 and slightly further back in midfield if need be.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    This is why people are talking about playing Trent in midfield. England are never going to be a solid defensive side, so why not just try to outscore teams?

    Or better yet, RLC?

    Problem is he’s so injury prone.
  • Apollo
    16258 posts World Class
    edited October 11
    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice - Winks
    Sancho - Maddison - Sterling
    Kane


    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice
    Winks - Maddison
    Sancho - Kane - Sterling

    I think that team can work effectively in both systems, it just comes down to which one Southgate prefers
  • G000ner
    4412 posts National Call-Up
    We need 2011 Jack Wilshere
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    Apollo wrote: »
    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice - Winks
    Sancho - Maddison - Sterling
    Kane


    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice
    Winks - Maddison
    Sancho - Kane - Sterling

    I think that team can work effectively in both systems, it just comes down to which one Southgate prefers

    We badly need a proper keeper to come along.
  • Tornado31619
    17874 posts World Class
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice - Winks
    Sancho - Maddison - Sterling
    Kane


    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice
    Winks - Maddison
    Sancho - Kane - Sterling

    I think that team can work effectively in both systems, it just comes down to which one Southgate prefers

    We badly need a proper keeper to come along.

    Yeah, it’s not like you’ve had one gift-wrapped for you since the Euros or anything.
    NINTCHDBPICT000351873082.jpg?strip=all&w=960&quality=100
    And his injury is irrelevant, because he never gets picked.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 11
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    Apollo wrote: »
    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice - Winks
    Sancho - Maddison - Sterling
    Kane


    Pickford
    TAA - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
    Rice
    Winks - Maddison
    Sancho - Kane - Sterling

    I think that team can work effectively in both systems, it just comes down to which one Southgate prefers

    We badly need a proper keeper to come along.

    Yeah, it’s not like you’ve had one gift-wrapped for you since the Euros or anything.
    NINTCHDBPICT000351873082.jpg?strip=all&w=960&quality=100
    And his injury is irrelevant, because he never gets picked.

    I’d definitely take him above Pickford but I’m talking Seaman/Shilton sort of proper keeper.
  • arsenalap
    6092 posts Big Money Move
    Let's hope Willock has a good season :*

  • G000ner
    4412 posts National Call-Up
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Let's hope Willock has a good season :*

    Chambers
    Willock-Maddison

    Seems about right
  • Pooter
    3338 posts National Call-Up
    Jeez, what happened last night guys??
  • AaronMFC
    1626 posts Play-Off Hero
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    Barkley does my brain in. There’s definitely a really good player in there. He’s so composed on the ball, he can beat a man, he can see a pass, he can execute a pass and he can score a goal. Just never seems to put it all together.
  • AaronMFC
    1626 posts Play-Off Hero
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    Barkley does my brain in. There’s definitely a really good player in there. He’s so composed on the ball, he can beat a man, he can see a pass, he can execute a pass and he can score a goal. Just never seems to put it all together.

    Yeah i mean i didnt want him in the squad and groaned when he came on but thought he looked like he could win us the game, another thing is we dont need both rice and henderson playing together unless we're playing someone like France and even then id be happier with just one defensive mid and using defensive full backs like Wan bissaka.
  • arsenalap
    6092 posts Big Money Move
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    I'm going to point out this is the exact reason I mentioned Maguire.

    He might be the best of a bad bunch but he hardly played well. I've seen many people say we're looking for his partner, but he needs to step up too for me. I expect more from him, he should be a leader at the back, but I didn't see any leadership in that side yesterday.

    The only guarentees are the front 3 really because they've earnt that right. Everyone else should be fighting for their positions. Just because Maguire cost 80m doesn't mean he is immune. He wasn't amazing last season, and hasn't been amazing this season so I don't understand this opinion that he is a guarenteed starter.

    If Tomori has a top season he should be in that side. Same for Tuanzebe, Holding, even Smalling if he does have a top season at Roma.
  • Farlz
    8554 posts League Winner
    England need Tuanzebe to be playing regularly. Blokes going right to the top and will comfortably end up being England's best CB.
  • Apollo
    16258 posts World Class
    You're not going into a major tournament with two relatively inexperienced CBs as your starters. It just won't happen. Southgate will want some experience in one of the positions. Maguire is the first choice senior CB, he's absolutely the best we have that fits that criteria. The rest will be fighting over the second spot.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    I'm going to point out this is the exact reason I mentioned Maguire.

    He might be the best of a bad bunch but he hardly played well. I've seen many people say we're looking for his partner, but he needs to step up too for me. I expect more from him, he should be a leader at the back, but I didn't see any leadership in that side yesterday.

    The only guarentees are the front 3 really because they've earnt that right. Everyone else should be fighting for their positions. Just because Maguire cost 80m doesn't mean he is immune. He wasn't amazing last season, and hasn't been amazing this season so I don't understand this opinion that he is a guarenteed starter.

    If Tomori has a top season he should be in that side. Same for Tuanzebe, Holding, even Smalling if he does have a top season at Roma.

    Why would you want to chuck 2 players in at centre back who have a combined total of 14 top level matches in? You know what that’s going to do right? You also know how many goals Chelsea have concede? You realise that only 2 clubs have conceded less than Utd?

    This is why I say there’s a witch-hunt against Maguire. Yes he cost 80 million, no he’s not worth that. But he is a good centre back who actually isn’t in bad form at all playing in a terrible team.
  • Apollo
    16258 posts World Class
    Farlz wrote: »
    England need Tuanzebe to be playing regularly. Blokes going right to the top and will comfortably end up being England's best CB.

    He'll get plenty of game time this season, he's been playing already and is already pushing Lindelof for his place. It won't be long until he's in the England squad, he's a top class talent.
  • arsenalap
    6092 posts Big Money Move
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    I'm going to point out this is the exact reason I mentioned Maguire.

    He might be the best of a bad bunch but he hardly played well. I've seen many people say we're looking for his partner, but he needs to step up too for me. I expect more from him, he should be a leader at the back, but I didn't see any leadership in that side yesterday.

    The only guarentees are the front 3 really because they've earnt that right. Everyone else should be fighting for their positions. Just because Maguire cost 80m doesn't mean he is immune. He wasn't amazing last season, and hasn't been amazing this season so I don't understand this opinion that he is a guarenteed starter.

    If Tomori has a top season he should be in that side. Same for Tuanzebe, Holding, even Smalling if he does have a top season at Roma.

    Why would you want to chuck 2 players in at centre back who have a combined total of 14 top level matches in? You know what that’s going to do right? You also know how many goals Chelsea have concede? You realise that only 2 clubs have conceded less than Utd?

    This is why I say there’s a witch-hunt against Maguire. Yes he cost 80 million, no he’s not worth that. But he is a good centre back who actually isn’t in bad form at all playing in a terrible team.

    I mean that's why I said IF they have a good season.

    The Euros are a year away, a lot can change in that time. I dont expect any of those players to get into the England side right now, they haven't earnt that right over Maguire currently.

    But I dont believe that he is immune because he shouldn't be. He isnt playing at a high enough level for club or country to be.

    What witch hunt? I'm literally the only one mentioning Maguire.. how is it a witch hunt? And again, I haven't said Maguire is playing poorly but no way has he earnt the right to be guaranteed a spot, because he hasn't been playing as well as that level.

    But yes I do see the arguement that for the sake of stability, we should have one senior CB which will be him, so he is probably guaranteed a spot just on that basis. But it's that complacency which is a problem for England imo.

    I mean look at last night, all the England players were looking at each other saying where are the options. We need someone to step up and be a leader, especially at the back. Someone to have that accountability. I want that to be Maguire, it should be him because as you mention he has the experience. But.. it isnt, he looked as lost as the rest of them on that regard. I hope he steps up a bit from that side of things because England need it.
  • Alex_cr
    5340 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    I'm going to point out this is the exact reason I mentioned Maguire.

    He might be the best of a bad bunch but he hardly played well. I've seen many people say we're looking for his partner, but he needs to step up too for me. I expect more from him, he should be a leader at the back, but I didn't see any leadership in that side yesterday.

    The only guarentees are the front 3 really because they've earnt that right. Everyone else should be fighting for their positions. Just because Maguire cost 80m doesn't mean he is immune. He wasn't amazing last season, and hasn't been amazing this season so I don't understand this opinion that he is a guarenteed starter.

    If Tomori has a top season he should be in that side. Same for Tuanzebe, Holding, even Smalling if he does have a top season at Roma.

    Why would you want to chuck 2 players in at centre back who have a combined total of 14 top level matches in? You know what that’s going to do right? You also know how many goals Chelsea have concede? You realise that only 2 clubs have conceded less than Utd?

    This is why I say there’s a witch-hunt against Maguire. Yes he cost 80 million, no he’s not worth that. But he is a good centre back who actually isn’t in bad form at all playing in a terrible team.

    I mean that's why I said IF they have a good season.

    The Euros are a year away, a lot can change in that time. I dont expect any of those players to get into the England side right now, they haven't earnt that right over Maguire currently.

    But I dont believe that he is immune because he shouldn't be. He isnt playing at a high enough level for club or country to be.

    What witch hunt? I'm literally the only one mentioning Maguire.. how is it a witch hunt? And again, I haven't said Maguire is playing poorly but no way has he earnt the right to be guaranteed a spot, because he hasn't been playing as well as that level.

    But yes I do see the arguement that for the sake of stability, we should have one senior CB which will be him, so he is probably guaranteed a spot just on that basis. But it's that complacency which is a problem for England imo.

    I mean look at last night, all the England players were looking at each other saying where are the options. We need someone to step up and be a leader, especially at the back. Someone to have that accountability. I want that to be Maguire, it should be him because as you mention he has the experience. But.. it isnt, he looked as lost as the rest of them on that regard. I hope he steps up a bit from that side of things because England need it.

    Yeah I’ll look at last night alright. First loss in qualifying for 40odd games playing a formation that didn’t work with the players chosen and full backs that exposed outmr centre backs horribly.

    Maguire is playing in a team that have conceded less than a goal a game this season and he is the only constant in there. Furthermore he is the one player at Utd who will step out with the ball - more so than most of their midfielders. He is playing at a really good level and being let down by those around him. If you can’t see this you either don’t know football or haven’t watched Utd.
  • arsenalap
    6092 posts Big Money Move
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Alex_cr wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    AaronMFC wrote: »
    Really bad display yesterday mind you still had the chances i was surprised by barkley when he came on thought its the best hes looked for a long time. The sterling foul when it would be a 3 v 1 was an awful decision but sterling was greedy and wasted it anyway. Maguire is the only one of the back 4 who should be a starter its a shame gomez hasnt looked as good since he came back from his injury otherwise he would definitely be playing.

    I'm going to point out this is the exact reason I mentioned Maguire.

    He might be the best of a bad bunch but he hardly played well. I've seen many people say we're looking for his partner, but he needs to step up too for me. I expect more from him, he should be a leader at the back, but I didn't see any leadership in that side yesterday.

    The only guarentees are the front 3 really because they've earnt that right. Everyone else should be fighting for their positions. Just because Maguire cost 80m doesn't mean he is immune. He wasn't amazing last season, and hasn't been amazing this season so I don't understand this opinion that he is a guarenteed starter.

    If Tomori has a top season he should be in that side. Same for Tuanzebe, Holding, even Smalling if he does have a top season at Roma.

    Why would you want to chuck 2 players in at centre back who have a combined total of 14 top level matches in? You know what that’s going to do right? You also know how many goals Chelsea have concede? You realise that only 2 clubs have conceded less than Utd?

    This is why I say there’s a witch-hunt against Maguire. Yes he cost 80 million, no he’s not worth that. But he is a good centre back who actually isn’t in bad form at all playing in a terrible team.

    I mean that's why I said IF they have a good season.

    The Euros are a year away, a lot can change in that time. I dont expect any of those players to get into the England side right now, they haven't earnt that right over Maguire currently.

    But I dont believe that he is immune because he shouldn't be. He isnt playing at a high enough level for club or country to be.

    What witch hunt? I'm literally the only one mentioning Maguire.. how is it a witch hunt? And again, I haven't said Maguire is playing poorly but no way has he earnt the right to be guaranteed a spot, because he hasn't been playing as well as that level.

    But yes I do see the arguement that for the sake of stability, we should have one senior CB which will be him, so he is probably guaranteed a spot just on that basis. But it's that complacency which is a problem for England imo.

    I mean look at last night, all the England players were looking at each other saying where are the options. We need someone to step up and be a leader, especially at the back. Someone to have that accountability. I want that to be Maguire, it should be him because as you mention he has the experience. But.. it isnt, he looked as lost as the rest of them on that regard. I hope he steps up a bit from that side of things because England need it.

    Yeah I’ll look at last night alright. First loss in qualifying for 40odd games playing a formation that didn’t work with the players chosen and full backs that exposed outmr centre backs horribly.

    Maguire is playing in a team that have conceded less than a goal a game this season and he is the only constant in there. Furthermore he is the one player at Utd who will step out with the ball - more so than most of their midfielders. He is playing at a really good level and being let down by those around him. If you can’t see this you either don’t know football or haven’t watched Utd.

    I have higher expectations for Maguire than those players. Everyone knew that Rose and Keane are in terrible form so it's no surprise how poorly they've done.

    I told you, again for the 10th time, I don't think he is playing poorly, but he is for me no way undroppable like many suggest. I think Maguire is at the point in his career where he needs to be more vocal and a leader, which I haven't seen for England. And, in the United games i've watched I haven't seen much of that either.

    He drives forward with the ball well, yep. He does have some good individual games yep. But he still is making mistakes, and he isn't vocal enough for me.

    Last night, the game was crying out for someone at the back to take charge, to grab the game, calm everyone down, pull the fullbacks into position, get Rice to maybe come drop deeper and help out more. That person should be Maguire, he should be at that level where he is doing that. But, I don't see that in him. Hopefully it will change over the season though, because I want him to be good for Englands sake.

    I think as he is the only senior defender currently really, he probably will be a starter but we need more leaders in that England side as it is such a young team.
  • AaronMFC
    1626 posts Play-Off Hero
    Personally dont think maguire was even that bad yesterday for the winning goal its not his fault rose is too far up the pitch and gets bullied hes stood in the right position and keane needlessly follows to the near post despite rice having it covered. See a lot of people saying how bad maguire is all of a sudden obviously not in this thread and i dont get it at all he plays well most games when iv watched united lindelof has been getting bullied while maguire has played well.
  • Tornado31619
    17874 posts World Class
    How far do you reckon you’ll get in the Euros? My last eight predictions:

    Holland
    Germany
    Spain
    Wales
    Portugal
    France
    England
    Belgium

    I think you could reach the semis again TBH. Kane is obviously by far your best striker, but an attack of Sterling-Rashford-Sancho could cause some serious problems for ours and Spain’s backlines. The question is if yours will be able to handle the opposition attack, because from that lot, you’re looking at the likes of Ronaldo, Gnabry, Hazard, James, Bale, Mbappé, Depay, even Lukaku.

    That’s my concern with Portugal. We’re a defensively solid side, but nobody has any pace besides Ronaldo and our fifty RBs.
  • WryLucky
    1939 posts Play-Off Hero
    How far do you reckon you’ll get in the Euros? My last eight predictions:

    Holland
    Germany
    Spain
    Wales
    Portugal
    France
    England
    Belgium

    I think you could reach the semis again TBH. Kane is obviously by far your best striker, but an attack of Sterling-Rashford-Sancho could cause some serious problems for ours and Spain’s backlines. The question is if yours will be able to handle the opposition attack, because from that lot, you’re looking at the likes of Ronaldo, Gnabry, Hazard, James, Bale, Mbappé, Depay, even Lukaku.

    That’s my concern with Portugal. We’re a defensively solid side, but nobody has any pace besides Ronaldo and our fifty RBs.

    Depends how much Southgate wants to play Keane and Rose.
  • Pxul_
    8232 posts League Winner
    Wales are close to not even making it to the euros
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