EA openly admitting to manipulate players in the new patch?

So I was listening to Nep's newest video and he raises some interesting points on the new patch. It starts around 2:40


Basically his main point is that EA just openly admitted to manipulate players in defense and offense in a certain ingame situation, e.g. kick off. They seem to atleast turn down some kind of aggression stat for offensive players and whatever stats space between defensive players (maybe width in combination with aggression and pressure or so).
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This obviously leads to some interesting questions regarding manipulation in other areas, at other times...

This is by no means a thread about handicap, momentum or whatever, but I think we need some clarification on what exactly is going on there and especially for how long after kick off. So @EA_Andy if you could get some more information on this I would appreciate it.

Atm I have to agree with Nep on this, EA opens up a lot of discussions with this one. It's just a little step from player manipulation after kick off to player manipulation at a 2-0 lead or whatever and boom we are in the middle of a momentum discussion.

Comments

  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.
  • Blarix
    20869 posts Club Captain
    Peter wrote: »
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.

    This happens already. 2-0 lead is fine example, goals scored end of either half.
  • Blarix wrote: »
    Peter wrote: »
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.

    This happens already. 2-0 lead is fine example, goals scored end of either half.

    Love it. I try to concentrate on facts, point out what theories could arise if EA doesn't further adress this and man's just coming in trying to sell a theory as a given fact.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    Blarix wrote: »
    Peter wrote: »
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.

    This happens already. 2-0 lead is fine example, goals scored end of either half.

    They are not facts though, the new patch is.

    The 45th and 90th minute make up 8% of the average game of football or FIFA. A disproportionate amount of goals don't get scored in them , they are just minutes that last more than a minute :joy:
  • Orison
    66667 posts Icon
    edited February 2018
    Peter wrote: »
    Blarix wrote: »
    Peter wrote: »
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.

    This happens already. 2-0 lead is fine example, goals scored end of either half.

    They are not facts though, the new patch is.

    The 45th and 90th minute make up 8% of the average game of football or FIFA. A disproportionate amount of goals don't get scored in them , they are just minutes that last more than a minute :joy:

    Especially if EA's "3 minutes of added time" which should be something around 24secs somehow turns into 60-90secs of RL time :joy: At that point the 90th minute on its own makes up for more than 10% of game time so ofc there will be a lot more goals than in any other given minute. Doesn't necessarily show that there is slider manipulation at work tho.

    Also any other minute apart from 45th and 90th you simply don't recognize. In theory EA could make the 67th minute the craziest minute in the whole game where twice as many goals happen (on average) compared to any other minute and nobody would ever notice as that's simply not a "special" minute you recognize.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    edited February 2018
    Orison wrote: »
    Peter wrote: »
    Blarix wrote: »
    Peter wrote: »
    They've opened a can of worms really, temporarily adjusting sliders can't be a positive thing.

    This happens already. 2-0 lead is fine example, goals scored end of either half.

    They are not facts though, the new patch is.

    The 45th and 90th minute make up 8% of the average game of football or FIFA. A disproportionate amount of goals don't get scored in them , they are just minutes that last more than a minute :joy:

    Especially if EA's "3 minutes of added time" which should be something around 24secs somehow turns into 60-90secs of RL time :joy: At that point the 90th minute on its own makes up for more than 10% of game time so ofc there will be a lot more goals than in any other given minute. Doesn't necesarrily show that there is slider manipulation at work tho.

    Also any other minute apart from 45th and 90th you simply don't recognize. In theory EA could make the 67th minute the craziest minute in the whole game where twice as many goals happen (on average) compared to any other minute and nobody would ever notice as that's simply not a "special" minute you recognize.

    Right, bull-🎃🎃🎃🎃 happens all through matches, but when it happens in those recognisable minutes it becomes a conspiracy.
  • Blarix
    20869 posts Club Captain
    Defend it all you want but everything will eventually come to light.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    edited February 2018
    Blarix wrote: »
    Defend it all you want but everything will eventually come to light.

    I'm not defending anything :joy:

    If the 45th and 90th minute were not the most common for goals to go in, then EA would be manipulating it to make that the case. They just have to be the most common.

    Nonsense happens all the time, but in the other 88 minutes you put it down to just that, nonsense.
  • alanrudy
    1557 posts Play-Off Hero
    Good points, interesting topic. Hope ea/eaandy can get to a response on this.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    alanrudy wrote: »
    Good points, interesting topic. Hope ea/eaandy can get to a response on this.

    It's a flawed fix to a formation/positioning mechanics problem. It's probably going go the other way and be harder than it should be to score straight after conceding now.
  • VanBasten12
    6784 posts Big Money Move
    To me, there is nothing new around "EA manipulating players" in the game. Always going to be the case when you only control 1 of the players, at a time.

    Regardless of that (obvious) fact, the question is really down to how much they manipulate those said players - specifically defence & midfield at time of KO, referencing the issue raised by them.

    Back to the old issue of communication and EA not wanting to release any info about their game.
  • Orison
    66667 posts Icon
    edited February 2018
    @Blarix nobody wants to defend anything. But threads about unproven conspiracy theories, e.g. handicap and momentum, get shut down, manipulation of some sort after kick off was just confirmed by EA themselves so lets go from there and work with proven facts trying to get an answer from @EA_Andy instead of going into unproven theories.

    If this leads to EA admitting some sort of manipulation in other areas of gameplay too then fine, but before that please don't go into that.

    I find it hilarious that they just wrote "after kick off" like what is that? If a game ends 1-0 was "after kick off" from that goal to the end of the 90th or what?
  • VanBasten12
    6784 posts Big Money Move
    Orison wrote: »
    @Blarix nobody wants to defend anything. But threads about unproven conspiracy theories, e.g. handicap and momentum, get shut down, manipulation of some sort after kick off was just confirmed by EA themsleves so lets go from there and work with proven facts trying to get an answer from @EA_Andy instead of going into unproven theories.

    I totally agree with you, and given how psychological this game is, there are way too many tinfoil hate theories.

    But, EA - as normal - don't help themselves by allowing us to keep speculating. Even if EA had to release their source code, it still wouldn't make a difference if PES looked identical.

    Licenses. EA hold them and you all will be playing FIFA till you're my age ... and further :tongue: .
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    On 14 or 15 part of the write up for the game on the EA website said that new intelligence would force the losing team to automatically go higher pressure in the last 10 minutes, whether that's still the case or not, who knows?

    But, if someone needs a goal at the end of a game they are going to put them pressure in themselves, go more attacking, go higher pressure, try extra hard, because their window for scoring is getting smaller and smaller.



    There's just so many legitimate factors to consider when it comes to late goals before anyone should even start worrying about EA deciding their opponent should score.
  • Orison wrote: »
    @Blarix nobody wants to defend anything. But threads about unproven conspiracy theories, e.g. handicap and momentum, get shut down, manipulation of some sort after kick off was just confirmed by EA themsleves so lets go from there and work with proven facts trying to get an answer from @EA_Andy instead of going into unproven theories.

    I totally agree with you, and given how psychological this game is, there are way too many tinfoil hate theories.

    But, EA - as normal - don't help themselves by allowing us to keep speculating. Even if EA had to release their source code, it still wouldn't make a difference if PES looked identical.

    Licenses. EA hold them and you all will be playing FIFA till you're my age ... and further :tongue: .

    @VanBasten12 Nep also brought up the point that EA might not have realized what they got themselves into with those patch notes and I kinda agree, admitting to manipulate the game at a certain time to prevent one team from scoring is defo one of the more hilarious things they did in recent years to fuel all sorts of conspiracy theories :joy:
  • VanBasten12
    6784 posts Big Money Move
    Orison wrote: »
    Orison wrote: »
    @Blarix nobody wants to defend anything. But threads about unproven conspiracy theories, e.g. handicap and momentum, get shut down, manipulation of some sort after kick off was just confirmed by EA themsleves so lets go from there and work with proven facts trying to get an answer from @EA_Andy instead of going into unproven theories.

    I totally agree with you, and given how psychological this game is, there are way too many tinfoil hate theories.

    But, EA - as normal - don't help themselves by allowing us to keep speculating. Even if EA had to release their source code, it still wouldn't make a difference if PES looked identical.

    Licenses. EA hold them and you all will be playing FIFA till you're my age ... and further :tongue: .

    @VanBasten12 Nep also brought up the point that EA might not have realized what they got themselves into with those patch notes and I kinda agree, admitting to manipulate the game at a certain time to prevent one team from scoring is defo one of the more hilarious things they did in recent years to fuel all sorts of conspiracy theories :joy:

    Indeed :joy:

    Release a single sentence - "we're being open and communicating to all" - only to realise it's going to spur more ... just wow!
  • SupaNoodle1990
    32185 posts National Team Captain
    We all know things change at certain points in matches, this is the first step to proving it.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    I wonder if EA have any hitmen in their books to take out any potential ex employee whistle blowers.
  • We all know things change at certain points in matches, this is the first step to proving it.

    @SupaNoodle1990 we didn't even need to prove things as we had for the chemgate thing, EA just openly admitted to doing so. Appreciate the honesty :trollface:

    But as I said better be open now and admit to further manipulation or deny it openly to atleast make that clear before theories get out of hand now that they got proof for atleast one instance.
  • VanBasten12
    6784 posts Big Money Move
    edited February 2018
    Peter wrote: »
    On 14 or 15 part of the write up for the game on the EA website said that new intelligence would force the losing team to automatically go higher pressure in the last 10 minutes, whether that's still the case or not, who knows?

    But, if someone needs a goal at the end of a game they are going to put them pressure in themselves, go more attacking, go higher pressure, try extra hard, because their window for scoring is getting smaller and smaller.

    There's just so many legitimate factors to consider when it comes to late goals before anyone should even start worrying about EA deciding their opponent should score.

    They took 'Fergie-time' and developed their AI around it. Why did they not consider that it didn't happen in every single game?

    Regardless, I think people are not composed in those final minutes - I've been there many times. As much as I'd want to blame the game mechanics - which could probably be a portion of those goals conceded due to AI - I must blame myself for not remaining calm and seeing the game out.

    I guess the other side of that 'attacking intelligence' in the last 10 minutes, is the risk factor of passing - rarely do teams have the ability/concentration to split defences in the dying moments. The team defending the lead would sit back and FB's would not be marauding forward.

    For me it's combination of events that EA has programmed in - all due to wanting exciting (= high scoring) games. EA should be told that a hard fought 1-0 victory can be heaps more rewarding than winning 7-6.
  • Peter wrote: »
    I wonder if EA have any hitmen in their books to take out any potential ex employee whistle blowers.

    @Peter M8, Nep's source (who was always right so far) told him we would get prime icons last Thursday and then we got 🎃🎃🎃🎃 all, they might have spread false information on purpose just to identify the source of those leaks. It's wild out there.
  • RadioShaq
    18644 posts Moderator
    Ea deny there is any extra manipulation. Please don’t make handicap scripting and momentum posts.
  • EA_Andy
    3378 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Just wanted to respond here as I've had a few messages.

    At the moment I don't have any further info on the patch notes but if that changes I'll let you know.

    For now this thread will remain closed as I think it was closed correctly.

    I understand the intentions from the post and appreciate the way the questions were posed but ultimately we have to remain consistent with the threads we close discussing manipulation, handicap, scripting, momentum or anything similar.
This discussion has been closed.