EA, it's a trap! begining of the end for packs/loot boxes

Comments

  • Tof33z
    7042 posts Big Money Move
    Tof33z wrote: »
    Tof33z wrote: »
    Like countless others have said, this will realistically get nowhere in court. You always receive what you pay for. The most I could see coming out of this would be the inforcement of EA publishing pack odds and so forth, just to appease the people who are outraged at this, but packs will never leave UT.

    I love how people say it's not gambling then talk about pack odds.

    Intellect of a tree stump

    Technically, it’s not gambling if you are receiving what you pay for. If you open a Jumbo Rare Players Pack, you receive 24 rare gold players. Of course there are variations in the gold cards you receive, but you still get 24 at the end of the day.

    Don't be stupid. By your argument if a bookie just offered a sum of money if your horse wins then it isn't gambling. Idiotic argument.

    Specifying the nature of a prize but not it's value doesn't make it legit. It makes it a lot LESS legit than other gambling where a bookie is upfront about exactly what you can win and under what circumstances. We won't even get into the possibility that ea adjust pack odds by criteria known only to themselves.

    Last but not least, legal definitions don't matter a hoot here. A court case is the end game after the damage is done and the issue has become mainstream, shareholders are raising hell and parents are debating whether this is something they want their kids to have. The potential catastrophe is well ahead of a court case that will take years and will anyway have different legal definitions in every jurisdiction that EA operates in

    I understand your argument, but technically all cards in FUT have no value. If I recall correctly, in the terms and conditions, you play FUT acknowledging that you have no legal ownership of anything you have in FUT. I understand how it could be perceived as morally wrong, but monetarily, Prime Ronaldo is worth no more than NIF Shelvey, he is only worth more “coins”, which have zero monetary value.

    Once again irrelevant. The money you pay has value. But like I said, court cases and legislation are probably a secondary issue. Once it's mainstream, the stock is dropping and investment funds are offloading it as it's not seen as being ethical then the crisis is real. It's the reputational hit that will kill sales, not the courts. Sure there'll be some legal moves and early shots like we're seeing now but fundamentally EA can't let it become a purely legal issue that they defend only in the courts. The damage is done by then.

    Once this kind of thing gets momentum {irony intended} it's nearly impossible to stop
    Shaanxz wrote: »
    maymanpele wrote: »
    Shaanxz wrote: »
    Won’t happen, with packs you know what you’re getting

    Remind me the exact odds of getting 96 Ronaldo. 0% right?

    But you know you’re getting 3 rare cards

    Spectacularly dumb argument. It's even more unscrupulous than other forms of gambling because it's not transparent. That makes it worse than a bookie, not better.
  • ALIST4R
    3874 posts National Call-Up
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.
  • FLASHFLUSH1
    5602 posts Big Money Move
    It is a form of gambling but they've covered themselves quite well legally speaking. But I can see both sides of the argument, it's not black or white. Its not as simple as it's not gambling.
  • Boabdust
    5024 posts Big Money Move
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.
  • Knowlesdinho
    13373 posts Has That Special Something
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    Possibly the stupidest comment on this thread!
  • ALIST4R
    3874 posts National Call-Up
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    Possibly the stupidest comment on this thread!

    Thank you for saying it.
  • Boabdust
    5024 posts Big Money Move
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    Possibly the stupidest comment on this thread!

    How is it?
    It's the same principle I'm seeing here for the packs.
  • Whoman
    5981 posts Big Money Move
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    If you don't see the fundamental difference, this discussion is moot.

  • Knowlesdinho
    13373 posts Has That Special Something
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    Possibly the stupidest comment on this thread!

    Thank you for saying it.

    You're welcome!
  • TalentFG
    1558 posts Play-Off Hero
    Boabdust wrote: »
    ALIST4R wrote: »
    @Tof33z you’re spewing common sense, I’m going to have to ask you to stop that. This forum is against that.

    But he's not going by his logic buying a packet of sweets is gambling because I don't know what flavours im going to get.

    Just wow
  • pumavii
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    does everyone agree that there is pack weights ? if so then this is gambling ... you think the casino doesnt have some sort of win/rate system too ?

    imo players in fifa should not go over the 500k or 1mil mark . i know there is aloooooot of ppl that play this game mode but i want everybody to afford the players they want . not spend 1k dollars to get a team like huge gorillas ... know what im saying ?

    then implement the skill gap , (destroy the delay/momentum bs) and then you will see whos better with who .
    you can have messi ronaldo and suarez and me too but i can use them better bcuz of SKILL ...

    just my 2 cents .
  • CovLee_Candice
    4530 posts National Call-Up
    pumavii wrote: »
    does everyone agree that there is pack weights ? if so then this is gambling ... you think the casino doesnt have some sort of win/rate system too ?

    imo players in fifa should not go over the 500k or 1mil mark . i know there is aloooooot of ppl that play this game mode but i want everybody to afford the players they want . not spend 1k dollars to get a team like huge gorillas ... know what im saying ?

    then implement the skill gap , (destroy the delay/momentum bs) and then you will see whos better with who .
    you can have messi ronaldo and suarez and me too but i can use them better bcuz of SKILL ...

    just my 2 cents .

    Team like gorilla need at least 5k spend bruh
  • DirtyDishFC
    11028 posts Moderator
    When I gamble at a casino I can cash out at some point unless I splurge it all. In Fifa I cant cash out (legally). I think other games that have encouraged selling items and such IRL will be in much more limbo than Fifa. Then again Im guessing lobbyists get them to kick this can down the road. Cause its not just EA even if they're the only ones named. The might of the industry will fight this.

    No idea if this AG just wants a quick victory for himself and will take something small to change or if he will dig his heels in. Usually in elected offices...its the victories for the fame that matter as they attempt to move up the food chain.

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out nonetheless. Those that are excited about this...Im not so sure you should be. Cause realistically this could be a death knell for the gaming industry if the legislation changes completely. People choose to pay to win in the end. If you dont want too, dont do it. I dont...I used too but I dont now. Haven't played one game of WL and will be getting Prime Henry tomorrow and will likely have leftovers (unless he costs 5 million or something for an SBC).

    Personally I think if this is gonna be an industry changer I see the EU as the most likely to pull it off IMO.

  • DaveSaves
    20137 posts Club Captain
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.
  • maymanpele
    14429 posts Has That Special Something
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.

    But the odds are probably closer to 0.000014% so it might turn some people off
  • FLASHFLUSH1
    5602 posts Big Money Move
    maymanpele wrote: »
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.

    But the odds are probably closer to 0.000014% so it might turn some people off

    Yeah exactly. I think full transparency would be a step in the right direction. Then it keeps everyone happy. EA still make bank from packs and the buyers know what they're expecting/going to get. Can't be any arguments after that.
  • Knowlesdinho
    13373 posts Has That Special Something
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.

    Brighthouse is a poor example. It's mainly a social underclass that use them out of desperation. Brighthouse have in effect replaced the TV rental service that used to be around years ago so poor people could watch telly.

    You are right that people don't understand percentages though, I've worked with people that can't take 10% from 100.
  • DaveSaves
    20137 posts Club Captain
    maymanpele wrote: »
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.

    But the odds are probably closer to 0.000014% so it might turn some people off

    Probably but it won’t stop people.

    They won’t have to be specific about Ronaldo anyway. It’ll say some rubbish about chance of a top player which will include Ronaldo down to any shoddy 1k 83 card.
  • maymanpele
    14429 posts Has That Special Something
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    maymanpele wrote: »
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Do people really think advertising a % chance or odds is going to stop/make Little Billy rethink his plan to buy some packs?

    “You have a 0.014% chance of Ronaldo in this pack”

    There will be adults on here who don’t understand this. I mean look at Brighthouse! They have a stupid percentage interest and it’s in a massive font and right in front of you, people still do it.

    But the odds are probably closer to 0.000014% so it might turn some people off

    Probably but it won’t stop people.

    They won’t have to be specific about Ronaldo anyway. It’ll say some rubbish about chance of a top player which will include Ronaldo down to any shoddy 1k 83 card.

    Well when the chances of getting a rare contract/ball/stadium are 45% it might make others look at it differently. I've had a run of 9 packs with no rare player cards. That's pretty terrible.
  • Recardo
    9099 posts League Winner

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out nonetheless. Those that are excited about this...Im not so sure you should be. Cause realistically this could be a death knell for the gaming industry if the legislation changes completely.

    personally i think its the micro transactions that have ruined the gaming industry.

    they look at the money its made and only see that.

    what they dont see if massive franchises have died off because most people are sick of paying too much for a game and its content. even if you do buy DLC maps. you might not even be able to play them because it splits the playerbase so much.

    the biggest game in the world right now is PUBG and its a £20 game with no DLC other than skins. its not even a finished game but you know with pubg when you log in its an even playing field and everyone has the same map, exactly the same tools to do the job.

    this year i didnt bother with

    FIFA
    FORZA
    COD

    all games i would buy 100% every year.

    then games i didn't buy after i read reviews

    Destiny 2
    Battlefront




  • DaveSaves
    20137 posts Club Captain
    Recardo wrote: »

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out nonetheless. Those that are excited about this...Im not so sure you should be. Cause realistically this could be a death knell for the gaming industry if the legislation changes completely.

    personally i think its the micro transactions that have ruined the gaming industry.

    they look at the money its made and only see that.

    what they dont see if massive franchises have died off because most people are sick of paying too much for a game and its content. even if you do buy DLC maps. you might not even be able to play them because it splits the playerbase so much.

    the biggest game in the world right now is PUBG and its a £20 game with no DLC other than skins. its not even a finished game but you know with pubg when you log in its an even playing field and everyone has the same map, exactly the same tools to do the job.

    this year i didnt bother with

    FIFA
    FORZA
    COD

    all games i would buy 100% every year.

    then games i didn't buy after i read reviews

    Destiny 2
    Battlefront

    COD/Forza are terrible for it. There’s content you can only get by paying. That isn’t true on Fifa.
  • Recardo
    9099 posts League Winner
    edited November 2017
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Recardo wrote: »

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out nonetheless. Those that are excited about this...Im not so sure you should be. Cause realistically this could be a death knell for the gaming industry if the legislation changes completely.

    personally i think its the micro transactions that have ruined the gaming industry.

    they look at the money its made and only see that.

    what they dont see if massive franchises have died off because most people are sick of paying too much for a game and its content. even if you do buy DLC maps. you might not even be able to play them because it splits the playerbase so much.

    the biggest game in the world right now is PUBG and its a £20 game with no DLC other than skins. its not even a finished game but you know with pubg when you log in its an even playing field and everyone has the same map, exactly the same tools to do the job.

    this year i didnt bother with

    FIFA
    FORZA
    COD

    all games i would buy 100% every year.

    then games i didn't buy after i read reviews

    Destiny 2
    Battlefront

    COD/Forza are terrible for it. There’s content you can only get by paying. That isn’t true on Fifa.

    whist technically true. in real world playing 3600 games to unlock NIF ronaldo. its basically the same. and is the same reason battlefront has come under fire.
  • YOLOT0URE
    7899 posts League Winner
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling
  • Ian_Ando08
    10897 posts Has That Special Something
    YOLOT0URE wrote: »
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling

    100% this just stop arguing mate they'll never stop
  • Davisto
    6357 posts Big Money Move
    Ian_Ando08 wrote: »
    YOLOT0URE wrote: »
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling

    100% this just stop arguing mate they'll never stop

    I kept getting koffing :bawling: didnt need gambling advice just needed help to get rid of this koff :trollface:
  • DaveSaves
    20137 posts Club Captain
    Recardo wrote: »
    DaveSaves wrote: »
    Recardo wrote: »

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out nonetheless. Those that are excited about this...Im not so sure you should be. Cause realistically this could be a death knell for the gaming industry if the legislation changes completely.

    personally i think its the micro transactions that have ruined the gaming industry.

    they look at the money its made and only see that.

    what they dont see if massive franchises have died off because most people are sick of paying too much for a game and its content. even if you do buy DLC maps. you might not even be able to play them because it splits the playerbase so much.

    the biggest game in the world right now is PUBG and its a £20 game with no DLC other than skins. its not even a finished game but you know with pubg when you log in its an even playing field and everyone has the same map, exactly the same tools to do the job.

    this year i didnt bother with

    FIFA
    FORZA
    COD

    all games i would buy 100% every year.

    then games i didn't buy after i read reviews

    Destiny 2
    Battlefront

    COD/Forza are terrible for it. There’s content you can only get by paying. That isn’t true on Fifa.

    whist technically true. in real world playing 3600 games to unlock NIF ronaldo. its basically the same. and is the same reason battlefront has come under fire.

    In a sense, but that doesn’t include any packs/rewards etc that you can get just by playing.

    Many people have stacked teams just from playing.
  • ez1907
    833 posts Semi-Pro
    edited November 2017
    When I gamble at a casino I can cash out at some point unless I splurge it all. In Fifa I cant cash out (legally).

    You are only talking about 1 type,there are lots of kinds of it.And giving money for getting random items which have different values is another kind..
  • AnDrEwThEdOn
    17270 posts World Class
    YOLOT0URE wrote: »
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling

    Exactly. Welcome to card games.
  • Tof33z
    7042 posts Big Money Move
    YOLOT0URE wrote: »
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling

    what you are missing is the element of materiality, there's a level at which the impact isn't worthy of a major response. Nicking a sweet out the pick n mix isn't the same as stealing a car, but they are both still stealing.

    I highly doubt there were options to spend the cash equivalent of 12K points on football cards in one go down the local newsagent. You'll routinely read on these forums of hundreds often thousands being spent in FP, and that's a level where controls are required to protect the under aged and those with compulsive behaviours.

    It gets especially significant where you start to explore the ways that EA can engineer the desire for pack purchases into the game and/or manipulate pack weights according to user behaviour. Anyone who seriously suggests that no controls are required in this whole area needs to extract thir heads from their backside
  • Ian_Ando08
    10897 posts Has That Special Something
    Tof33z wrote: »
    YOLOT0URE wrote: »
    So...are you guys saying when I opened Pokemon cards as a kid, or the premier league sticker album packets, I was gambling? That's essentially the real life equivalent and I bet you don't class that as gambling

    what you are missing is the element of materiality, there's a level at which the impact isn't worthy of a major response. Nicking a sweet out the pick n mix isn't the same as stealing a car, but they are both still stealing.

    I highly doubt there were options to spend the cash equivalent of 12K points on football cards in one go down the local newsagent. You'll routinely read on these forums of hundreds often thousands being spent in FP, and that's a level where controls are required to protect the under aged and those with compulsive behaviours.

    It gets especially significant where you start to explore the ways that EA can engineer the desire for pack purchases into the game and/or manipulate pack weights according to user behaviour. Anyone who seriously suggests that no controls are required in this whole area needs to extract thir heads from their backside

    people used to buy the boxes of football stickers when we used to collect them totalling 80 quid or more...

    and also its already been mentioned anyone under age doing it that is down to their parents they shouldnt ahve card details etc to be doing it
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