The English Football League Lounge 2020/21

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  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    james2060 wrote: »
    Lard_Lad wrote: »
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    Imagine my shock, get to the play offs, 6 major decisions for the ref to make across the 2 legs and 5 go in Oxfords favour
    Every ❤️❤️❤️❤️ time
    They better go batter Wycombe because those lot shouldn’t even be in the play offs, absolute disgrace if them and Rotherham both get promoted when both don’t deserve ❤️❤️❤️❤️ anything

    Why did Rotherham not deserve to get promoted? They were clearly second

    What are you guys smoking in south yorkshire, y'all as bad as each other

    If I was a Rotherham fan I’d go up extremely happy I’d manage to make so many entitled fans (looking at you Sunderland) cry with anguish over the season being called off.

    So many people claiming they would have walked through the last 9 games and sailed into the championship because they had an ‘easier run in’ and other complete tosh.

    The biggest joke is the fact everyone wanted to forget about the games already played where they weren’t good enough as if it’s not relevant cos they had played harder games.
  • Hicksy2011
    18842 posts World Class
    I appreciate what you’re saying but Wycombe in 8th would have gone level on points with Rotherham in 2nd if they won their spare game
    That’s how tight it was at the top
    This isn’t teams who were 8 points back complaining, it’s teams that very legitimately may well have all swapped around literally week to week
    We picked up 1 point from our last 2 games while half of our squad were suffering with Coronavirus and didn’t realise (although it made literally 0 difference in the Posh game)
    Had they had to postpone our games as soon as the boys were infected we would have gone up automatically
    It was that stupidly tight
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    I appreciate what you’re saying but Wycombe in 8th would have gone level on points with Rotherham in 2nd if they won their spare game
    That’s how tight it was at the top
    This isn’t teams who were 8 points back complaining, it’s teams that very legitimately may well have all swapped around literally week to week
    We picked up 1 point from our last 2 games while half of our squad were suffering with Coronavirus and didn’t realise (although it made literally 0 difference in the Posh game)
    Had they had to postpone our games as soon as the boys were infected we would have gone up automatically
    It was that stupidly tight

    I read quite a bit (a Northerner can read, ❤️❤️❤️❤️ the bed right) and one of my favourite authors does a series on an LA Detective, his favourite saying is ‘wherever the chips fall’ kind of meaning what happens, happens I guess.... it’s harsh on teams who haven’t gone up no doubt and perhaps lucky for teams that have but it’s the only sensible way it could have done I think, in the ridiculous circumstances. Trying to over complicate how it was worked out would never work and I truly think everyone needs to just accept if they had won more games from those played they wouldn’t be complaining.

    Sunderland in particular annoy me because their fans are still under the impression they ‘deserve way more’

    Right at this moment I kind of wish the championship had gone the same way and hopefully relegated us so we dont have this long painful death to endure for the next few weeks.
  • Hicksy2011
    18842 posts World Class
    :joy: the good thing is that if you can have a front 3 of Tavenier Fletcher and someone else you’re going to get about 100 goals next year if you end up here
  • Hicksy2011
    18842 posts World Class
    And the main grievance here comes from the fact that Rotherham probably could have afforded to end the season but voted no just because they were already up if it got cancelled
    Which is unsportsmanlike at best, fairly disgusting imo
    You’ve got Wycombe and Fleetwood saying they can’t finish the season but they can suddenly change their mind and participate in the play offs
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    :joy: the good thing is that if you can have a front 3 of Tavenier Fletcher and someone else you’re going to get about 100 goals next year if you end up here

    Someone else not being Marvin Johnson lol... if we keep Howson in L1 that will be ridiculous
  • GoodnightIrene
    4193 posts National Call-Up
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.
  • AaronMFC
    2265 posts Fans' Favourite
    Don't think anything will top me finding that Fulham fan who genuinely suggested Pochettino.

    on bbc radio tees one of our fans was disappointed we werent spending enough money to compete with Man United I dont think iv ever heard anything top that delusion since.
  • Dizzy Bala
    3970 posts National Call-Up
    Playoffs in general are just a bit of extra money spinning at the end of the season. If you have three promotion spots, just give it to the three best teams and be done with it. I say this as someone who supports a team in 5th.
  • Handy Andy
    6302 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 2020
    Still think they should’ve finished the season. Essentially everyone is hoping for the best that the virus goes away enough for things to go back to “normal” so fans can come back.

    Leagues 1 and 2 should have found a way to play and be pro active. If the virus comes back at any point (even just enough for fans to be banned) things will have to just stop again. As ya know, football clubs, they should have found a way to do their main thing of actually playing football
  • wheelerdeeler
    7719 posts League Winner
    I personally want to see a Relegation Play-Off like they do in the Bundesliga. Less games overall, but a game like Brentford/Villa would be a lot more interesting to me.
  • james2060
    3007 posts National Call-Up
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.

    That was never the point though, as per Hicksy's post at the top of the page they could have easily have finished second but as easily finished 7th. If Rotherham went on to get 20 points obviously they deserve it. But they could have got 10, and when there's 3 points separating 2nd and 8th that's the difference between top 2 and missing out of the playoffs.
    When it's that close, how can you say any team deserves their position when one game later could see them drop 6 places?
  • BristolMDF
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    The whole thing’s been an absolute mess hasn’t it to be fair. No way should clubs ever have been allowed to vote when there’s so many conflicting interests amongst those who are voting.

    There should have been one decision made for the entire EFL and applied across the board.

    But, to be comparing people’s run ins and form and then hypothesising who shoulda/woulda/coulda finished where is just nonsensical. If you weren’t good enough over the 30-odd games that were played to be in a meaningful position on a PPG places then you can’t possibly complain that someone else was and give it the ‘we would have definitely caught them up’, it’s mad.

    I maintain that if you’re going to curtail the season but act as if you haven’t, as they have done (which I’ll point out I think is the worst possible option, so well done EFL), then unweighted PPG is the only universally fair approach. If only 10 games had been played you can see the argument for another approach, but with 80% of the season done, you can’t then say ‘ah yeah but we’d have been much better than [insert team here] over 100%’, when you weren’t over 80%.
  • Hicksy2011
    18842 posts World Class
    So Pitman and Evans started the season as our captains, both got stripped, Pitman has been sent to train with the youth team, Evans played 1 minute of the play offs
    They got replaced by Naylor and Brown, Naylor didn’t play a minute of the play offs and is liking tweets mocking Jackett and Brown almost gave away the stupidest penalty last night
    They both got replaced by Burgess who has already signed a contract elsewhere
    All 5 are out of contract I think
    Surely he’s going if he has lost all of the senior players in the dressing room
  • GoodnightIrene
    4193 posts National Call-Up
    james2060 wrote: »
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.

    That was never the point though, as per Hicksy's post at the top of the page they could have easily have finished second but as easily finished 7th. If Rotherham went on to get 20 points obviously they deserve it. But they could have got 10, and when there's 3 points separating 2nd and 8th that's the difference between top 2 and missing out of the playoffs.
    When it's that close, how can you say any team deserves their position when one game later could see them drop 6 places?
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    Imagine my shock, get to the play offs, 6 major decisions for the ref to make across the 2 legs and 5 go in Oxfords favour
    Every ❤️❤️❤️❤️ time
    They better go batter Wycombe because those lot shouldn’t even be in the play offs, absolute disgrace if them and Rotherham both get promoted when both don’t deserve ❤️❤️❤️❤️ anything
    It was quite literally his point that they don't deserve it.

    They also were quite literally second in the table on a PPG basis, which averages out, get this, the amount of points each team has gained per game for the season. Mad to think the team that averaged the second highest amount of points in a season is going up in second place, just seems bonkers to me.
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    BristolMDF wrote: »
    The whole thing’s been an absolute mess hasn’t it to be fair. No way should clubs ever have been allowed to vote when there’s so many conflicting interests amongst those who are voting.

    There should have been one decision made for the entire EFL and applied across the board.

    But, to be comparing people’s run ins and form and then hypothesising who shoulda/woulda/coulda finished where is just nonsensical. If you weren’t good enough over the 30-odd games that were played to be in a meaningful position on a PPG places then you can’t possibly complain that someone else was and give it the ‘we would have definitely caught them up’, it’s mad.

    I maintain that if you’re going to curtail the season but act as if you haven’t, as they have done (which I’ll point out I think is the worst possible option, so well done EFL), then unweighted PPG is the only universally fair approach. If only 10 games had been played you can see the argument for another approach, but with 80% of the season done, you can’t then say ‘ah yeah but we’d have been much better than [insert team here] over 100%’, when you weren’t over 80%.

    This, pretty much... although i disagree with it being the worst option, i think its a fairly good option.

    Also its only one season, they havent exactly re-written everyones history.
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    On a slightly different note, looking at our last 5 games, i cant see where a win is coming from, im now 99% certain we are getting relegated, going down without a whimper.
  • Hicksy2011
    18842 posts World Class
    james2060 wrote: »
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.

    That was never the point though, as per Hicksy's post at the top of the page they could have easily have finished second but as easily finished 7th. If Rotherham went on to get 20 points obviously they deserve it. But they could have got 10, and when there's 3 points separating 2nd and 8th that's the difference between top 2 and missing out of the playoffs.
    When it's that close, how can you say any team deserves their position when one game later could see them drop 6 places?
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    Imagine my shock, get to the play offs, 6 major decisions for the ref to make across the 2 legs and 5 go in Oxfords favour
    Every ❤️❤️❤️❤️ time
    They better go batter Wycombe because those lot shouldn’t even be in the play offs, absolute disgrace if them and Rotherham both get promoted when both don’t deserve ❤️❤️❤️❤️ anything
    It was quite literally his point that they don't deserve it.

    They also were quite literally second in the table on a PPG basis, which averages out, get this, the amount of points each team has gained per game for the season. Mad to think the team that averaged the second highest amount of points in a season is going up in second place, just seems bonkers to me.

    This will be my last post because I didn’t mean to turn it in to this big argument
    But experimental361 did all their simulations and Rotherham had about 37% chance of going up automatically and looking at the table that’s probably not far off of accurate
    So a team that on balance was more likely to not get promoted has been given it
    Anyway as Bristol alluded to, a major part of my grievance here is that it seemed as though Rotherham contributed to the season finishing early just because it benefitted them
  • iHilarious
    13583 posts Has That Special Something
    We should’ve gone up automatically and I’ll fight anyone who disagrees x
  • BristolMDF
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    BristolMDF wrote: »
    The whole thing’s been an absolute mess hasn’t it to be fair. No way should clubs ever have been allowed to vote when there’s so many conflicting interests amongst those who are voting.

    There should have been one decision made for the entire EFL and applied across the board.

    But, to be comparing people’s run ins and form and then hypothesising who shoulda/woulda/coulda finished where is just nonsensical. If you weren’t good enough over the 30-odd games that were played to be in a meaningful position on a PPG places then you can’t possibly complain that someone else was and give it the ‘we would have definitely caught them up’, it’s mad.

    I maintain that if you’re going to curtail the season but act as if you haven’t, as they have done (which I’ll point out I think is the worst possible option, so well done EFL), then unweighted PPG is the only universally fair approach. If only 10 games had been played you can see the argument for another approach, but with 80% of the season done, you can’t then say ‘ah yeah but we’d have been much better than [insert team here] over 100%’, when you weren’t over 80%.

    This, pretty much... although i disagree with it being the worst option, i think its a fairly good option.

    Also its only one season, they havent exactly re-written everyones history.

    I think it’s the worst option because teams shouldn’t have a say in the outcome when their voting choice will clearly be based on personal interest and not what’s best for the league as a whole.

    IMO if the season doesn’t finish, then the season doesn’t finish, there should be no playoffs or promotion/relegation.
  • GoodnightIrene
    4193 posts National Call-Up
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    james2060 wrote: »
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.

    That was never the point though, as per Hicksy's post at the top of the page they could have easily have finished second but as easily finished 7th. If Rotherham went on to get 20 points obviously they deserve it. But they could have got 10, and when there's 3 points separating 2nd and 8th that's the difference between top 2 and missing out of the playoffs.
    When it's that close, how can you say any team deserves their position when one game later could see them drop 6 places?
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    Imagine my shock, get to the play offs, 6 major decisions for the ref to make across the 2 legs and 5 go in Oxfords favour
    Every ❤️❤️❤️❤️ time
    They better go batter Wycombe because those lot shouldn’t even be in the play offs, absolute disgrace if them and Rotherham both get promoted when both don’t deserve ❤️❤️❤️❤️ anything
    It was quite literally his point that they don't deserve it.

    They also were quite literally second in the table on a PPG basis, which averages out, get this, the amount of points each team has gained per game for the season. Mad to think the team that averaged the second highest amount of points in a season is going up in second place, just seems bonkers to me.

    This will be my last post because I didn’t mean to turn it in to this big argument
    But experimental361 did all their simulations and Rotherham had about 37% chance of going up automatically and looking at the table that’s probably not far off of accurate
    So a team that on balance was more likely to not get promoted has been given it
    Anyway as Bristol alluded to, a major part of my grievance here is that it seemed as though Rotherham contributed to the season finishing early just because it benefitted them
    Not an argument, just think it is delusional to think a team that has the second highest amount of points doesn't deserve to go up in second because people think they wouldn't have stayed there. They might not have, hell they probably wouldn't have. But if the season is stopping at 80% of the games played, and they are second after those 80% of games, to say they don't deserve to go up is plainly wrong.

    As stated the problem more so lies with the decision to then stop the season, of course teams are going to vote in their own favour when they are affecting what they are voting for.
  • BristolMDF
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    ^^

    Exactly this.

    If the season is curtailed at 80% of the way then you can only take into account the results at the 80% mark in determining promotion and relegation.

    Again I think it’s wrong to even have promotion/relegation if you haven’t finished the season but that’s another argument.

    I can see why teams who were in form don’t like it, but statistically they were better than you over the vast majority of the season.
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    Yeah the vote was silly, but how else could they do it, if they just didnt involve the clubs then they would get pelters for that too.
  • james2060
    3007 posts National Call-Up
    james2060 wrote: »
    Sorry but if you genuinely don't think Rotherham deserve to go up in second place you are clueless and delusional.

    That was never the point though, as per Hicksy's post at the top of the page they could have easily have finished second but as easily finished 7th. If Rotherham went on to get 20 points obviously they deserve it. But they could have got 10, and when there's 3 points separating 2nd and 8th that's the difference between top 2 and missing out of the playoffs.
    When it's that close, how can you say any team deserves their position when one game later could see them drop 6 places?
    Hicksy2011 wrote: »
    Imagine my shock, get to the play offs, 6 major decisions for the ref to make across the 2 legs and 5 go in Oxfords favour
    Every ❤️❤️❤️❤️ time
    They better go batter Wycombe because those lot shouldn’t even be in the play offs, absolute disgrace if them and Rotherham both get promoted when both don’t deserve ❤️❤️❤️❤️ anything
    It was quite literally his point that they don't deserve it.

    They also were quite literally second in the table on a PPG basis, which averages out, get this, the amount of points each team has gained per game for the season. Mad to think the team that averaged the second highest amount of points in a season is going up in second place, just seems bonkers to me.

    I wasn't referring to that post... and was referring to how close the league was with the post I highlighted..
    We all understand Rotherham "deserve" to go up based on where the table finished. They were second, top two go up. You can say if you're not in the top 2 when 80% has been played you don't deserve automatic promotion, but that's a complete disregard of the situation the league table was in. Forget about who were playing who, if the EFL waited two more days to postpone the league, Rotherham could have been out of the top 6, Sunderland and Wycombe could have been in the top 6.
    As has been mentioned, it's the decision that stinks. If we swapped roles with Rotherham, I'd expect we'd do the same as them and they'd do the same as us.

    Why did you have to bring this up again @Hicksy2011 :tired_face:
  • BristolMDF
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    On to more important matters, Ross McCormack found the key to his gates and is single handedly dragging Torquay kicking and screaming into League One.

    022d274a0a987f39ce37b298cb81b540.png
  • They Caged Non
    6495 posts Big Money Move
    BristolMDF wrote: »
    On to more important matters, Ross McCormack found the key to his gates and is single handedly dragging Torquay kicking and screaming into League One.

    022d274a0a987f39ce37b298cb81b540.png

    Shame the reality is, sat round his flat sniffing beak with Jack Grealish during lockdown.
  • ryan217
    2965 posts Fans' Favourite
    On a slightly different note, looking at our last 5 games, i cant see where a win is coming from, im now 99% certain we are getting relegated, going down without a whimper.

    You'll beat us at the riverside 100%
  • BristolMDF
    1718 posts Play-Off Hero
    ryan217 wrote: »
    On a slightly different note, looking at our last 5 games, i cant see where a win is coming from, im now 99% certain we are getting relegated, going down without a whimper.

    You'll beat us at the riverside 100%

  • AaronMFC
    2265 posts Fans' Favourite
    We didnt have a shot on target when we got beat at home by Luton. I have no confidence we will beat either of your teams.
  • wheelerdeeler
    7719 posts League Winner
    Decent(ish) team put out to be fair. Only change I would've made is Christie for Odoi. Although think Cairney's out of the team with a knock and not because he's been underperforming though given he isn't on the bench.
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