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General election!

Comments

  • BrentfordFC
    13133 posts Has That Special Something
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places

    You mean those bombs and equipment we bought years ago and that are mostly built in the UK providing jobs.

    While i was in afghan we was setting off at least 4 £200,000 missiles every day for the 7 months i was there. that is just surface to air missiles. Not fast jets, which have to be refuelled as soon as they take off in addition to the bombs. And thats not comms or personal or anything.

    I get that they was made in the uk (majority was bought from the US) but even so, The deals made was with companies which MP's & Senior military personal have shares in. The rich get richer.

    The wealthy profit from war/Military intervention, Nobody else.

    My Cousin was blown up in Afghanistan in 2009, I'd just as soon launch a £750'000 Tomahawk Cruise missile if it meant one less British soldier being injuried.

    The deals are made with them because we have no defense industry anymore bar 1 indigenous shipbuilder, 1 indigenous military aerospace firm and no indigenous defence vehicle manufacturers.
  • BrentfordFC
    13133 posts Has That Special Something
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places

    You mean those bombs and equipment we bought years ago and that are mostly built in the UK providing jobs.

    While i was in afghan we was setting off at least 4 £200,000 missiles every day for the 7 months i was there. that is just surface to air missiles. Not fast jets, which have to be refuelled as soon as they take off in addition to the bombs. And thats not comms or personal or anything.

    I get that they was made in the uk (majority was bought from the US) but even so, The deals made was with companies which MP's & Senior military personal have shares in. The rich get richer.

    The wealthy profit from war/Military intervention, Nobody else.

    My Cousin was blown up in Afghanistan in 2009, I'd just as soon launch a £750'000 Tomahawk Cruise missile if it meant one less British soldier being injuried.

    The deals are made with them because we have no defense industry anymore bar 1 indigenous shipbuilder, 1 indigenous military aerospace firm and no indigenous defence vehicle manufacturers.

    Dropping missiles isn't going to solve anything. Another one will pop up. It's a never ending cycle.
  • The Dome 2
    337 posts Sunday League Hero
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places

    You mean those bombs and equipment we bought years ago and that are mostly built in the UK providing jobs.

    While i was in afghan we was setting off at least 4 £200,000 missiles every day for the 7 months i was there. that is just surface to air missiles. Not fast jets, which have to be refuelled as soon as they take off in addition to the bombs. And thats not comms or personal or anything.

    I get that they was made in the uk (majority was bought from the US) but even so, The deals made was with companies which MP's & Senior military personal have shares in. The rich get richer.

    The wealthy profit from war/Military intervention, Nobody else.

    My Cousin was blown up in Afghanistan in 2009, I'd just as soon launch a £750'000 Tomahawk Cruise missile if it meant one less British soldier being injuried.

    The deals are made with them because we have no defense industry anymore bar 1 indigenous shipbuilder, 1 indigenous military aerospace firm and no indigenous defence vehicle manufacturers.

    Sorry about your cousin dude. I did 3 Afghan tours and 4 months in Iraq last year before i left in jan. Work in counter terrorism now.

    That was my point though, we shouldn't have been there. i would much rather your cousin not be blown up and not have to fire any missiles. Thats 750,000 grand that could be spent on public services rather than increasing profit margins of the rich
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Rat
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places

    You mean those bombs and equipment we bought years ago and that are mostly built in the UK providing jobs.

    While i was in afghan we was setting off at least 4 £200,000 missiles every day for the 7 months i was there. that is just surface to air missiles. Not fast jets, which have to be refuelled as soon as they take off in addition to the bombs. And thats not comms or personal or anything.

    I get that they was made in the uk (majority was bought from the US) but even so, The deals made was with companies which MP's & Senior military personal have shares in. The rich get richer.

    The wealthy profit from war/Military intervention, Nobody else.

    My Cousin was blown up in Afghanistan in 2009, I'd just as soon launch a £750'000 Tomahawk Cruise missile if it meant one less British soldier being injuried.

    The deals are made with them because we have no defense industry anymore bar 1 indigenous shipbuilder, 1 indigenous military aerospace firm and no indigenous defence vehicle manufacturers.

    Dropping missiles isn't going to solve anything. Another one will pop up. It's a never ending cycle.

    I'd rather they popped up there than here.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.

    People on the dole should be forced to take jobs after a certain time.
  • BrentfordFC
    13133 posts Has That Special Something
    As for the Iraq war and Afghanistan war. We were there for 1 reason only. And were ordered there by our "Allies".
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places
    The Dome 2 wrote: »
    Dan2501 wrote: »
    Already voted (postal), for Labour. Agree with a lot of the stuff they're doing. Upping corporation tax, maintaining the hunting ban, abolishing tuition fees, investing more in the NHS, reducing the ridiculous school cuts, more investment in grass-roots football, doing some very good stuff. Also, May is intolerable and not fit to lead the country.

    http://schoolcuts.org.uk/ - This is well worth a look, show's prospective cuts for the local schools in your area between now and 2022. My old high school looking at £300k+ cuts in the next 5 years under a Tory government.

    Where's the funding coming from?

    Taxes on business and the top 5%

    Not to mention the obscene amount of money we spend every year bombing places

    You mean those bombs and equipment we bought years ago and that are mostly built in the UK providing jobs.

    While i was in afghan we was setting off at least 4 £200,000 missiles every day for the 7 months i was there. that is just surface to air missiles. Not fast jets, which have to be refuelled as soon as they take off in addition to the bombs. And thats not comms or personal or anything.

    I get that they was made in the uk (majority was bought from the US) but even so, The deals made was with companies which MP's & Senior military personal have shares in. The rich get richer.

    The wealthy profit from war/Military intervention, Nobody else.

    My Cousin was blown up in Afghanistan in 2009, I'd just as soon launch a £750'000 Tomahawk Cruise missile if it meant one less British soldier being injuried.

    The deals are made with them because we have no defense industry anymore bar 1 indigenous shipbuilder, 1 indigenous military aerospace firm and no indigenous defence vehicle manufacturers.

    Sorry about your cousin dude. I did 3 Afghan tours and 4 months in Iraq last year before i left in jan. Work in counter terrorism now.

    That was my point though, we shouldn't have been there. i would much rather your cousin not be blown up and not have to fire any missiles. Thats 750,000 grand that could be spent on public services rather than increasing profit margins of the rich

    We had to go to Afghanistan, Article 5 was declared by the USA after 9/11
  • BrentfordFC
    13133 posts Has That Special Something
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.

    People on the dole should be forced to take jobs after a certain time.

    Have you been to a dole office mert? Half of them don't even look for jobs and just blag their mentors for the dough.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.

    People on the dole should be forced to take jobs after a certain time.

    Have you been to a dole office mert? Half of them don't even look for jobs and just blag their mentors for the dough.

    Thats the problem with the welfare state..people don't need to work anymore.
  • coatsy
    32197 posts National Team Captain
    edited June 2017
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.
  • Wonderfulwest
    4972 posts Big Money Move
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    The missile right
  • coatsy
    32197 posts National Team Captain
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    The missile right

    Absolutely, as long as they aren't dropping here who cares.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    edited June 2017

    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.

    People on the dole should be forced to take jobs after a certain time.

    You were against people being forced to do things a minute ago.

    I do agree though, they should do comminity service 7 hours a week to earn their 60quid.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Peter wrote: »
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    Firstly it's not racist being worried about mass immigration. People have a right to be worried. As for jobs. I have seen firsthand British people turning down jobs at high rates because they "believe" they should be paid more for this job. This is the reason as to why others get the job instead. They will not moan they will not cry about the wage all day. British people do. It's no fault but our own egos for this.

    People on the dole should be forced to take jobs after a certain time.

    You were against people being forced to do things a minute ago.

    I do agree though, they should do comminity service 7 hours a week to earn their 60quid.

    Theres a difference between forcing someone to vote and forcing someone to uphold the contract they signed when they applied for Job Seekers Allowance.
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.
  • coatsy
    32197 posts National Team Captain
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    British foreign policy has arguably made us less safe. Military action in areas such as Afghanistan have been largely been ineffective. Afghanistan is crippled by the resurgence of the Taliban now, with ISIS also taking a foot hold.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.

    The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm and its citizens.

    We went to Afghanistan to stop Bin Laden and Co using it as a training ground to export terror to our streets after he and his cohorts had murdered 67 British citizens alongside the couple of thousand Americans who we have strategic alliances with.

    What failed in Iraq and Afghanistan was NATO/UN/Washington/London officials planning for the future handover of those countries to provide a safe system of government that was acceptable to the locals.

    Should have just nuked the Sunni parts Middle East and rehoused the Shi'ites and Kurdish people, alongside those of Israel...and caused a reformation within the Islamic faith.

    See world peace at the press of a button.
  • Peter
    26887 posts Player of the Year
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.

    Public services should be in such a state that they can handle a 0.5% increase in demand.

    Thats not an argument for or against immigration, its just the state public services should be in.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Peter wrote: »
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.

    Public services should be in such a state that they can handle a 0.5% increase in demand.

    Thats not an argument for or against immigration, its just the state public services should be in.

    Theres no way you can provision for 300 thousand people having access to the NHS or their children having access to the British education system. You have to provide some sort of housing for them.
    Or their eligibility to tax credits and other in work benefits.
    You also have to factor in extra police officers, fire services, courts and social services, interpretation services and god knows what else to allow them to integrate into our society.

    And people wonder why public services are at breaking point when we already run a budget defecit of £50,000,000,000.
  • coatsy
    32197 posts National Team Captain
    edited June 2017
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.

    The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm and its citizens.

    We went to Afghanistan to stop Bin Laden and Co using it as a training ground to export terror to our streets after he and his cohorts had murdered 67 British citizens alongside the couple of thousand Americans who we have strategic alliances with.

    What failed in Iraq and Afghanistan was NATO/UN/Washington/London officials planning for the future handover of those countries to provide a safe system of government that was acceptable to the locals.

    Should have just nuked the Sunni parts Middle East and rehoused the Shi'ites and Kurdish people, alongside those of Israel...and caused a reformation within the Islamic faith.

    See world peace at the press of a button.

    Ah yes the killing of likely millions in the justification of world peace.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.

    The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm and its citizens.

    We went to Afghanistan to stop Bin Laden and Co using it as a training ground to export terror to our streets after he and his cohorts had murdered 67 British citizens alongside the couple of thousand Americans who we have strategic alliances with.

    What failed in Iraq and Afghanistan was NATO/UN/Washington/London officials planning for the future handover of those countries to provide a safe system of government that was acceptable to the locals.

    Should have just nuked the Sunni parts Middle East and rehoused the Shi'ites and Kurdish people, alongside those of Israel...and caused a reformation within the Islamic faith.

    See world peace at the press of a button.

    Ah yes the killing of likely millions in the justification of world peace.

    Worked with Japan..Coat and Taxi please
  • coatsy
    32197 posts National Team Captain
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.

    The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm and its citizens.

    We went to Afghanistan to stop Bin Laden and Co using it as a training ground to export terror to our streets after he and his cohorts had murdered 67 British citizens alongside the couple of thousand Americans who we have strategic alliances with.

    What failed in Iraq and Afghanistan was NATO/UN/Washington/London officials planning for the future handover of those countries to provide a safe system of government that was acceptable to the locals.

    Should have just nuked the Sunni parts Middle East and rehoused the Shi'ites and Kurdish people, alongside those of Israel...and caused a reformation within the Islamic faith.

    See world peace at the press of a button.

    Ah yes the killing of likely millions in the justification of world peace.

    Worked with Japan..Coat and Taxi please

    Slightly different given the capacity of nuclear weapons now and the fact that it was a state on state conflict. By bombing 'sunnis' all you are really doing is advocating for some warped form of religious cleansing because that branch of Islam is apparently at odds with your world view.

    As much as you might want to blame others, the west needs to take some responsibility for the current climate of the middle East.

  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    coatsy2008 wrote: »
    One of those missiles pays for 20-25 nurses on 30k for a year.

    I know which I think is more important.

    Whats the first duty of any government?

    Killing a shepherd armed with a grenade from 10,000 feet at the cost of a few hundred thousand pounds is somewhat of a stretch to the social contract between a populace and the government put in place to protect them.

    The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm and its citizens.

    We went to Afghanistan to stop Bin Laden and Co using it as a training ground to export terror to our streets after he and his cohorts had murdered 67 British citizens alongside the couple of thousand Americans who we have strategic alliances with.

    What failed in Iraq and Afghanistan was NATO/UN/Washington/London officials planning for the future handover of those countries to provide a safe system of government that was acceptable to the locals.

    Should have just nuked the Sunni parts Middle East and rehoused the Shi'ites and Kurdish people, alongside those of Israel...and caused a reformation within the Islamic faith.

    See world peace at the press of a button.

    Ah yes the killing of likely millions in the justification of world peace.

    Worked with Japan..Coat and Taxi please

    Slightly different given the capacity of nuclear weapons now and the fact that it was a state on state conflict. By bombing 'sunnis' all you are really doing is advocating for some warped form of religious cleansing because that branch of Islam is apparently at odds with your world view.

    As much as you might want to blame others, the west needs to take some responsibility for the current climate of the middle East.

    I was joking about nuking them...a few MOAB's now would be appropriate I think.

    To be fair the Sunni branch of Islam is the one exporting Salafists and Wahhabism into Western society.We could start with the Saudi's to eradicate it.

    The Kurds really should be given a state of their own carved out of Northern Iraq and Northern Syria.

    Yes we do have to take some responsibility but ISIS in a different form was knocking about in Jordan and Iraq from 1999. Bin Laden bombed the Twin Towers in the 1990's. They hate us because of a book..at least Christianity wrote a second chapter with a bit more love in it than the old testament.
  • S P 4 C E Y
    2436 posts Fans' Favourite
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.

    You need to start working in recruitment if you think we don't need immigrants. Go try running the NHS without foreign doctors and nurses.
  • 1690_Ulster_FC
    3637 posts National Call-Up
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.

    You need to start working in recruitment if you think we don't need immigrants. Go try running the NHS without foreign doctors and nurses.

    I never said we don't need them. I said skilled labour is perfectly fine.

    Its chambermaids, mcdonalds workers and potato pickers like jobs for immigrants we don't need. There's enough folk knocking about the UK on benefits capable of working that could do those jobs and contribute to society.

  • BrentfordFC
    13133 posts Has That Special Something
    Why do socialists shout down anyone who argues against mass immigration. Unions argue it suppresses wages. I'm from Belfast so we don't have the same levels as England but I was recently working in Surrey and the firm I was in was employing Eastern Europeans on half the wage I was on as a self employed temporary worker.

    £11 an hour to that Polish/Lithuanian/Romanian etc is still massive money.
    But thats a British worker that could have had that job, leading to less people requiring help from the state, less pressure on state services due to less headcount in the country and more money in the governments pockets.

    Oh thats right its supposedly racist to talk about immigration.

    EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

    I.e. they pay more in taxes than they take from public services.

    No they are not the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed they break even at best.

    The majority of immigrants are unskilled workers who because they earn minimum wage would be entitled to tax credits to bring their wage up to a certain level...thus their tax is negligible.

    I'm not against immigration as long as it is skilled workers like Nurses and Doctors, Engineers etc..we don't need unskilled workers there's enough people on the dole to clean hotels and serve in McDonalds or pick potatoes.

    If you'd read my comment instead of immediately reacting, you wouldn't have got it wrong.

    "EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/hysteria-immigration-statistics-migration-government

    I did not make a statement on non-EU migrants, where the contribution (or deficit) ranges significantly country by country.

    Its shown that at best EU nationals within the UK break even when in comes to tax revenues.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/amp/

    Like I said I have no problem people coming here, but we need to fix our own public services within the four countries of the UK, to make them available to every British citizen when the require them.

    Its completely unsustainable to allow 300'000 people a year to come to the UK and expect our services to cope with that demand.

    You need to start working in recruitment if you think we don't need immigrants. Go try running the NHS without foreign doctors and nurses.

    I never said we don't need them. I said skilled labour is perfectly fine.

    Its chambermaids, mcdonalds workers and potato pickers like jobs for immigrants we don't need. There's enough folk knocking about the UK on benefits capable of working that could do those jobs and contribute to society.

    Missing the point. :lol:

    They won't do these jobs
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