Arsenal Football Club

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  • sturges12345
    3083 posts National Call-Up
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Ceballos is dead money regardless of what position. Could get much better for the same values reported

    You really hate him dont you..hes played under 10 games in a new league and you're already having a go at him when he hasn't even played that poorly one game aside.

    I think he is worth upto 40m.

    There are some mentions of 50m, of which maybe I'd go for Aouar instead.

    But, there aren't many players in that mould who can sit deeper and be creative too.

    Ceballos isn’t creative though. He literally creates 1 chance a match at best. Plus figures reported are well above the 40m mark
  • Tornado31619
    17351 posts World Class
    How quickly your opinions on him have changed. Things seem to have changed massively since Anfield.
  • sturges12345
    3083 posts National Call-Up
    How quickly your opinions on him have changed. Things seem to have changed massively since Anfield.

    I never ever rated him.
  • sturges12345
    3083 posts National Call-Up
    Ceballos to drop a 0/10 away at anfield after being hyped up by arsenal fans for 2 assists against Burnley one of which was a tackle. I think yes

    So spot on man
  • G000ner
    4327 posts National Call-Up
    Ceballos to drop a 0/10 away at anfield after being hyped up by arsenal fans for 2 assists against Burnley one of which was a tackle. I think yes

    So spot on man

    Literally anyone could've predicted that we would get dominated by Liverpool
  • Tornado31619
    17351 posts World Class
    G000ner wrote: »
    Ceballos to drop a 0/10 away at anfield after being hyped up by arsenal fans for 2 assists against Burnley one of which was a tackle. I think yes

    So spot on man

    Literally anyone could've predicted that we would get dominated by Liverpool

    The irony is that you actually didn’t. They got very lucky with Pepe/Auba’s misses and Luiz’s stupidity.

    They likely would have won regardless, but it should have been closer than it was.
  • SDoofus
    5701 posts Big Money Move
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Ceballos is dead money regardless of what position. Could get much better for the same values reported

    You really hate him dont you..hes played under 10 games in a new league and you're already having a go at him when he hasn't even played that poorly one game aside.

    I think he is worth upto 40m.

    There are some mentions of 50m, of which maybe I'd go for Aouar instead.

    But, there aren't many players in that mould who can sit deeper and be creative too.

    Ceballos isn’t creative though. He literally creates 1 chance a match at best. Plus figures reported are well above the 40m mark

    I may be wrong here, but is 1 chance a game bad? 38 chances a season (if every game is played) from one player doesn’t sound bad to me.

    What are the typical numbers for chances created for CMs?
  • SDoofus
    5701 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 12
    According to PL stats, TAA created 11 big chances in 2018/19.

    Edit: he’s already created 7 this season, which seems a bit weird in comparison to just 11 last season for the entire season vs 7 in 8 this season.
  • arsenalap
    5698 posts Big Money Move
    I think theres two stats. One is goal scoring chances and one is big chances. Tbh I dont know the difference.

    But, Ozil was averaging 100 goal scoring chances per season for Arsenal until 2018 as an example.
  • SDoofus
    5701 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 12
    Anyone remember how good squawka compare used to be for stats? It’s literally useless now. They butchered it and never bothered to fix it. That’s why you never see any screenshots from that site anymore anywhere. Annoying as it was such a handy tool to get access to many stats.
  • arsenalap
    5698 posts Big Money Move
    edited October 12
    Watching the Spain game, Ceballos playing LW.
  • G000ner
    4327 posts National Call-Up
    SDoofus wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Ceballos is dead money regardless of what position. Could get much better for the same values reported

    You really hate him dont you..hes played under 10 games in a new league and you're already having a go at him when he hasn't even played that poorly one game aside.

    I think he is worth upto 40m.

    There are some mentions of 50m, of which maybe I'd go for Aouar instead.

    But, there aren't many players in that mould who can sit deeper and be creative too.

    Ceballos isn’t creative though. He literally creates 1 chance a match at best. Plus figures reported are well above the 40m mark

    I may be wrong here, but is 1 chance a game bad? 38 chances a season (if every game is played) from one player doesn’t sound bad to me.

    What are the typical numbers for chances created for CMs?

    A chance created is a pass that results in a shot being taken I believe. When they say a player's made a "key pass", this is what they mean.

    A "big chance" I guess is subjective, but it must mean a chance created that has a high probability of resulting in a goal. Like a 1 on 1 or whatever.
  • G000ner
    4327 posts National Call-Up
    Worth noting with Ceballos' stats that most of his appearances he's either been subbed off early or subbed on late. The chances created per game stat is misleading. 1 per game isn't bad considering his minutes and the fact he isn't exactly playing as a #10. Of course he's still adapting to the league too.
  • "Big chances" is an Opta statistic and they have their own methodology for it, it takes a lot of factors into consideration. And yeah, G000ner is right with regards to "chances created", it's just any pass that leads to a shot. You would probably expect a good creative player to be averaging like 2.5+ chances created. Of course there's an issue with open play chance creation versus set piece chance creation, most stats guys look at open play stuff alone. The other thing that's big is expected assists which is somewhat useful, though in my opinion it's worse than expected goals which is already quite problematic. Nevertheless, @footballfactman on Twitter posted a list of the top 25 players for open play expected assists and we had a proud zero players in the list.
  • Ahmer50x
    19067 posts World Class
    SDoofus wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Ceballos is dead money regardless of what position. Could get much better for the same values reported

    You really hate him dont you..hes played under 10 games in a new league and you're already having a go at him when he hasn't even played that poorly one game aside.

    I think he is worth upto 40m.

    There are some mentions of 50m, of which maybe I'd go for Aouar instead.

    But, there aren't many players in that mould who can sit deeper and be creative too.

    Ceballos isn’t creative though. He literally creates 1 chance a match at best. Plus figures reported are well above the 40m mark

    I may be wrong here, but is 1 chance a game bad? 38 chances a season (if every game is played) from one player doesn’t sound bad to me.

    What are the typical numbers for chances created for CMs?

    I know Maddison created the most chances in the league last season with like 100
  • Tornado31619
    17351 posts World Class
    Ahmer50x wrote: »
    SDoofus wrote: »
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Ceballos is dead money regardless of what position. Could get much better for the same values reported

    You really hate him dont you..hes played under 10 games in a new league and you're already having a go at him when he hasn't even played that poorly one game aside.

    I think he is worth upto 40m.

    There are some mentions of 50m, of which maybe I'd go for Aouar instead.

    But, there aren't many players in that mould who can sit deeper and be creative too.

    Ceballos isn’t creative though. He literally creates 1 chance a match at best. Plus figures reported are well above the 40m mark

    I may be wrong here, but is 1 chance a game bad? 38 chances a season (if every game is played) from one player doesn’t sound bad to me.

    What are the typical numbers for chances created for CMs?

    I know Maddison created the most chances in the league last season with like 100

    He played as a 10/forward, though.
  • G000ner wrote: »
    Worth noting with Ceballos' stats that most of his appearances he's either been subbed off early or subbed on late. The chances created per game stat is misleading. 1 per game isn't bad considering his minutes and the fact he isn't exactly playing as a #10. Of course he's still adapting to the league too.

    The big statistics people, Opta, Whoscored, Statsbomb, Transfermarkt, they all do per 90 minutes, not per game. He has 1.1 key passes/90 in the PL, which is not great, but it's basically the same as most players in the team. Guendouzi has 0.9, Pepe has 1.5, Kolasinac (who was far and away our most creative player last year) has 0.8 which is the same as Aubameyang and Xhaka. We've just been creating **** all this season.
  • Tornado31619
    17351 posts World Class
    None of your CMs are inherently creative like, say, Pogba or De Bruyne. Özil is, but he’s a 10 and doesn’t even play anymore.

    I suppose that’s one advantage of Bellerin and Tierney returning.
  • arsenalap
    5698 posts Big Money Move
    Nope, hence why I mentioned how I think we should be playing to maximise the CMs we have.

    They aren't bad players at all but they aren't going to create hundreds of chances.
  • Guendouzi and Ceballos are creative central midfielders and both have a good final ball. Even Xhaka is okay for a player in his position in that department. We just don't play in a way to allow them to do that.
  • G000ner
    4327 posts National Call-Up
    G000ner wrote: »
    Worth noting with Ceballos' stats that most of his appearances he's either been subbed off early or subbed on late. The chances created per game stat is misleading. 1 per game isn't bad considering his minutes and the fact he isn't exactly playing as a #10. Of course he's still adapting to the league too.

    The big statistics people, Opta, Whoscored, Statsbomb, Transfermarkt, they all do per 90 minutes, not per game. He has 1.1 key passes/90 in the PL, which is not great, but it's basically the same as most players in the team. Guendouzi has 0.9, Pepe has 1.5, Kolasinac (who was far and away our most creative player last year) has 0.8 which is the same as Aubameyang and Xhaka. We've just been creating **** all this season.

    Fair enough. Was unsure of how whoscored did the statistics myself, so I checked the key and it said key passes per game. Assumed they meant per appearance, rather than per 90. Surprising to see Pepe so high up, but I suppose he is involved in a lot of our attacks in the final third.

    David Silva, who plays in a very similar position to Ceballos has 1.1 key passes per game this season. So it's not too bad
  • SDoofus
    5701 posts Big Money Move
    G000ner wrote: »
    Worth noting with Ceballos' stats that most of his appearances he's either been subbed off early or subbed on late. The chances created per game stat is misleading. 1 per game isn't bad considering his minutes and the fact he isn't exactly playing as a #10. Of course he's still adapting to the league too.

    The big statistics people, Opta, Whoscored, Statsbomb, Transfermarkt, they all do per 90 minutes, not per game. He has 1.1 key passes/90 in the PL, which is not great, but it's basically the same as most players in the team. Guendouzi has 0.9, Pepe has 1.5, Kolasinac (who was far and away our most creative player last year) has 0.8 which is the same as Aubameyang and Xhaka. We've just been creating **** all this season.

    Can you post some key passes/90 of other team’s creative players? Interested to see.
  • Ahmer50x
    19067 posts World Class
    Ashley Young has the 4th highest key passes per game in the league this season per WhoScored. I wouldn't trust that metric :joy:
  • Pughy30
    26279 posts Player of the Year
    Stats have there place but i wouldn't trust them too much i still think the eye test is important because i remember a few years ago when whoscored has Mustafi in their Prem team of the season :D
  • Tornado31619
    17351 posts World Class
    Or Otamendi :lol:
  • ViVaWhom
    8241 posts League Winner
    thats not really a clear difference...
  • arsenalap
    5698 posts Big Money Move
    ViVaWhom wrote: »
    thats not really a clear difference...

    10% because of 1 player is pretty high.. especially as the sample size is quite big.
  • arsenalap
    5698 posts Big Money Move
    Really think were going to regret not signing Soyuncu.

    Reading up on it, the choice was either Chambers or Soyuncu and we chose to keep Chambers. Also they wanted 25m min from us for him.

    We were scouting him for a very long time though. Last season it looked like we made the good choice but not sure now. I remember thinking of Pavard or Soyuncu and that Soyuncu was just the cheaper lesser talent of Pavard but both are top talents.

    Can see Soyuncu going on to be a big CB.

    I do think we will go in for a CB this summer with Upamacano the most likely option. I really think Guendouzis rise to fame will help us with young french players like Saliba. They've seen what Guendouzi can do and will aim to do the same.
  • G000ner
    4327 posts National Call-Up
    arsenalap wrote: »
    Really think were going to regret not signing Soyuncu.

    Reading up on it, the choice was either Chambers or Soyuncu and we chose to keep Chambers. Also they wanted 25m min from us for him.

    We were scouting him for a very long time though. Last season it looked like we made the good choice but not sure now. I remember thinking of Pavard or Soyuncu and that Soyuncu was just the cheaper lesser talent of Pavard but both are top talents.

    Can see Soyuncu going on to be a big CB.

    I do think we will go in for a CB this summer with Upamacano the most likely option. I really think Guendouzis rise to fame will help us with young french players like Saliba. They've seen what Guendouzi can do and will aim to do the same.

    We always seem to make the worst decisions when it comes to signing centre backs. Our midfielder and attacker signings are generally quite good, particularly for young players, but we just have no idea who to buy in defence. Ornstein talked earloer about how we were close to signing van Dijk whilst he was at Celtic, but elected against it.
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