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Wager Option in FUT?

1
Frankenberry
10215 posts Has That Special Something
Before opening this thread, I'm sure most people will already have preconceived notions that wagers will never happen in FIFA, or that a "wager mode" would cause FIFA to change it's ESRB rating:

(just a few examples of unrelated posts)
vYkogFm.png

This thread is slightly different in the sense that I'm telling you that wager mode already exists in FIFA 16 (and in several past FIFAs as well), just not in FIFA Ultimate Team. It's cleverly disguised as the "Rival Match" option:

zLqbYK9.png

Yes, this is slightly different than "I want to wager 100k on a match", but it's still definitely a wager (you're gambling all of the rewards on the outcome of a 1v1 match, winner takes all).

Would this be a positive addition to FUT? Both users would have to agree to the "Rival Match" option (one or both users selecting 'no' would lead to just a regular match). In H2H, you are wagering XP and FCC (virtual points with no real-world value, used to redeem virtual items online). Likewise on FUT, you would be wagering match coins (virtual points with no real-world value, used to redeem virtual items online).

Let me know your thoughts. Personally, I think it would be mostly positive. Users that want to avoid this would be able to avoid it whenever they want to. The outcome of these wagers (~1000 coins to the winner and 0 coins to the loser vs. ~550 coins to the winner and ~450 coins to the loser) is small enough that I don't think it would create a lot of cheating/whining/scandals over a few hundred coins.

Comments

  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    I wonder if - because you can spend real money on packs which indirectly leads to coins - they are precluded from doing it by law?

    Whereas you can't spend real money on something that leads to an increase in FCC/XP.

    May explain why it exists outside of FUT?
  • wijnaldum16
    3890 posts National Call-Up
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    Also given how desperate some people can be for a win online (putting controller down, making no attempt to play properly, deliberately introducing a source of latency) it's bound to be massively abused.

    A nice thought that people would respect it but doubtful!
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    Yeah that's my thought - I imagine the coins count as a form of currency by law whereas FCC/XP don't.
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).
  • ContraCode64
    2299 posts Fans' Favourite
    edited September 2016
    I can't see any harm in being able to at least wager your share of the match coins - draw sees coins split as normal, otherwise it's winner takes all (so yeah typically around 1k per game).

    XP and FCC would be kinda pointless to a lot of players given how low the threshold is to unlock all the catalogue items (at least in 16) and of course, EA would probably have an issue with people potentially getting their coin boosts on new accounts in double quick time.

    I guess the only other sensible/acceptable reward you could factor in would be the ability to wager basic consumables or other FUT items of minimal value (like kits).
  • wijnaldum16
    3890 posts National Call-Up
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).

    There isn't a direct relation, no, to an extent. Spending £25 on FIFA Points doesn't guarantee getting 100,000 coins each time, for example.

    BUT

    FIFA Points do guarantee at least some coins in-game. Spending real money on FUT guarantees some sort of profit in-game. I agree that match coins have no real-world value, but as I said before, I think FUT coins are seen as a whole value rather than being split into categories of how they were gained.
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    XP and FCC would be kinda pointless to a lot of players given how low the threshold is to unlock all the catalogue items (at least in 16) and of course, EA would probably have an issue with people potentially getting their coin boosts on new accounts in double quick time.

    FYI the ability to wager XP and FCC already exists in FIFA (that is an actual in-game screenshot). I don't think it is currently being abused, though it's up for debate whether a FUT/coin wager system would be more/less abused.
  • Antparry92
    18894 posts World Class
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    I wonder if - because you can spend real money on packs which indirectly leads to coins - they are precluded from doing it by law?

    Whereas you can't spend real money on something that leads to an increase in FCC/XP.

    May explain why it exists outside of FUT?

    First thoughts exactly. Although I know I'd be wagering every time just because I can't trade :joy:
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).

    There isn't a direct relation, no, to an extent. Spending £25 on FIFA Points doesn't guarantee getting 100,000 coins each time, for example.

    BUT

    FIFA Points do guarantee at least some coins in-game. Spending real money on FUT guarantees some sort of profit in-game. I agree that match coins have no real-world value, but as I said before, I think FUT coins are seen as a whole value rather than being split into categories of how they were gained.

    My interpretation of the ToS is that EA gives you absolutely zero guarantee for coins attained from buying/using FIFA Points, and that all FUT coins (regardless of how they were attained) have no value whatsoever.
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    Whereas you can't spend real money on something that leads to an increase in FCC/XP.

    On this topic, I believe spending FP and opening packs can actually lead to a reward of XP/FCC (e.g. "you pulled a Legend +100 XP", something like that). It is possible to gain XP/FCC opening packs in FUT, in the same sense that it is possible to gain FUT coins from opening packs in FUT.
  • Antparry92
    18894 posts World Class
    Surely the fact that people try to sell FUT coins for real money but are stopped due to it being illegal possibly shows they're not related? Just a thought or am I being too simple?
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).

    It doesn't matter what they put in the ToS. EA still have to comply with the law in the countries in which their products are sold.

    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    Gambling law is complex (and highly variable by territory) and where a child-rated product is involved even more so.

    I'm sure if they weren't legally prevented from doing so, it'd already be implemented.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    Whereas you can't spend real money on something that leads to an increase in FCC/XP.

    On this topic, I believe spending FP and opening packs can actually lead to a reward of XP/FCC (e.g. "you pulled a Legend +100 XP", something like that). It is possible to gain XP/FCC opening packs in FUT, in the same sense that it is possible to gain FUT coins from opening packs in FUT.

    Good point, that sounds familiar actually. Even so I'm convinced that if EA could put this in FUT it would already be there!
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?
  • Antparry92
    18894 posts World Class
    Slightly different but Jurrassic park game on iPhone has a FP system called dino bucks that you pay for. You can then put down 5 dino bucks to fight with your dinosaurs against a random opponent and the winner gets what is essentially coins and a pack for winning. Surely it's the same principle?
  • WoundedGoat
    13105 posts Has That Special Something
    Coin transfers galore.
  • wijnaldum16
    3890 posts National Call-Up
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).

    There isn't a direct relation, no, to an extent. Spending £25 on FIFA Points doesn't guarantee getting 100,000 coins each time, for example.

    BUT

    FIFA Points do guarantee at least some coins in-game. Spending real money on FUT guarantees some sort of profit in-game. I agree that match coins have no real-world value, but as I said before, I think FUT coins are seen as a whole value rather than being split into categories of how they were gained.

    My interpretation of the ToS is that EA gives you absolutely zero guarantee for coins attained from buying/using FIFA Points, and that all FUT coins (regardless of how they were attained) have no value whatsoever.

    If we're going by the ToS then fair enough, but I can't think of a scenario in which you don't make a profit on FUT coins from buying FIFA Points. Unless you can buy untradeable packs?

    Even in Draft, if you play through FIFA Points you'll make a profit in-game.

    Actually I can see why there is no guarantee. Getting disconnected in the first round of draft will give no match coins. I guess it's the ToS, all things must be considered.
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    Coin transfers galore.

    Not sure how you could transfer coins in this method. Instead of the winner taking ~550 coins and the loser taking ~450 coins, the winner of the "Rival Match" mode would take ~1000 coins and the loser would take 0 coins.

    There really is no transferring of coins across accounts. You're generating coins at the exact same rate as before.
  • CovLee_Candice
    4383 posts National Call-Up
    better buy coins then :trollface:
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    Most people get coins from using real money though. Can you get XP from spending money? Is it possible?

    FUT coins might be virtual, but I can see why they could be considered as having some remote real-world value. I think EA see FUT coins as a whole, not as match coins vs coins bought vs fifa points vs trading.

    You can't get FUT coins from real money actually (well not exactly). You can buy FIFA Points with real money, which can be used to open packs, which will contain cards/coins.

    It's similar, but I think that's an important distinction. There really isn't a direct relation between the virtual coins and real money. I think EA makes it very clear in the ToS that XP, FCC, FUT Coins, etc. all have absolutely zero real-world value (in a financial sense).

    There isn't a direct relation, no, to an extent. Spending £25 on FIFA Points doesn't guarantee getting 100,000 coins each time, for example.

    BUT

    FIFA Points do guarantee at least some coins in-game. Spending real money on FUT guarantees some sort of profit in-game. I agree that match coins have no real-world value, but as I said before, I think FUT coins are seen as a whole value rather than being split into categories of how they were gained.

    My interpretation of the ToS is that EA gives you absolutely zero guarantee for coins attained from buying/using FIFA Points, and that all FUT coins (regardless of how they were attained) have no value whatsoever.

    If we're going by the ToS then fair enough, but I can't think of a scenario in which you don't make a profit on FUT coins from buying FIFA Points. Unless you can buy untradeable packs?

    Even in Draft, if you play through FIFA Points you'll make a profit in-game.

    Actually I can see why there is no guarantee. Getting disconnected in the first round of draft will give no match coins. I guess it's the ToS, all things must be considered.

    Likewise, when you spend FP on packs and drafts, are you not also guaranteed to make some XP/FCC?

    The argument is that there is already a mechanism in place for wagering XP/FCC, and I am suggesting that XP/FCC are fundamentally the same as FUT coins (in the sense that they are artificially constructed currencies with no real-world value).
  • WoundedGoat
    13105 posts Has That Special Something
    Coin transfers galore.

    Not sure how you could transfer coins in this method. Instead of the winner taking ~550 coins and the loser taking ~450 coins, the winner of the "Rival Match" mode would take ~1000 coins and the loser would take 0 coins.

    There really is no transferring of coins across accounts. You're generating coins at the exact same rate as before.

    Apologies didn't fully read OP and realise it was a winner takes all match coins scenario.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?

    I guess that comes down to whether or not it contravenes gambling legislation! It could even be something as simple as it being referred to as 'coins'.

    If they were called 'FUT credits' or something it could be different. As I said, legislation around this sort of thing is complex.

    I'd say that it's no coincidence that it's in one game mode in one form and not in another.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    Coin transfers galore.

    Not sure how you could transfer coins in this method. Instead of the winner taking ~550 coins and the loser taking ~450 coins, the winner of the "Rival Match" mode would take ~1000 coins and the loser would take 0 coins.

    There really is no transferring of coins across accounts. You're generating coins at the exact same rate as before.

    If you had two accounts on two consoles you could play a match against yourself and deliberately move coins. Not sure why you would though when there's much quicker ways!
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?

    I guess that comes down to whether or not it contravenes gambling legislation! It could even be something as simple as it being referred to as 'coins'.

    If they were called 'FUT credits' or something it could be different. As I said, legislation around this sort of thing is complex.

    I'd say that it's no coincidence that it's in one game mode in one form and not in another.

    I think FCC literally equates to "FIFA Catalogue Coins", and they are wager-able. I don't think the term "coins" is the distinction here.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?

    I guess that comes down to whether or not it contravenes gambling legislation! It could even be something as simple as it being referred to as 'coins'.

    If they were called 'FUT credits' or something it could be different. As I said, legislation around this sort of thing is complex.

    I'd say that it's no coincidence that it's in one game mode in one form and not in another.

    I think FCC literally equates to "FIFA Catalogue Coins", and they are wager-able. I don't think the term "coins" is the distinction here.

    It was just an example. The point stands that what you can and can't allow kids to do/see on a video game is balls deep in legislation.
  • Frankenberry
    10215 posts Has That Special Something
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?

    I guess that comes down to whether or not it contravenes gambling legislation! It could even be something as simple as it being referred to as 'coins'.

    If they were called 'FUT credits' or something it could be different. As I said, legislation around this sort of thing is complex.

    I'd say that it's no coincidence that it's in one game mode in one form and not in another.

    I think FCC literally equates to "FIFA Catalogue Coins", and they are wager-able. I don't think the term "coins" is the distinction here.

    It was just an example. The point stands that what you can and can't allow kids to do/see on a video game is balls deep in legislation.

    I totally agree, but my argument here is that the fundamental aspects of XP, FCC, and FUT coins are all incredibly similar. At their core, they really are 3 meaningless virtual currencies with 3 meaningless names, all with zero real-world value. They can be moved, deleted, created and exchanged within the regulations that EA sets (so long as they're not transferred for real-world currencies).

    I think the reason "Rival Match" wagers exist in H2H and not in FUT is because different teams of people work on each game mode, and there are often interesting features that make it in one and not the other. My understanding is that if XP/FCC wagers are allowed, FUT coin wagers are equally allowed.
  • BRISTOL86
    8954 posts League Winner
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    BRISTOL86 wrote: »
    The link between real money and an increase in coins balance is pretty obvious.

    The link between real money and an increase in XP/FCC is also apparent in FUT, and yet "Rival Match" mode continues to exist. Should it be removed as well?

    I guess that comes down to whether or not it contravenes gambling legislation! It could even be something as simple as it being referred to as 'coins'.

    If they were called 'FUT credits' or something it could be different. As I said, legislation around this sort of thing is complex.

    I'd say that it's no coincidence that it's in one game mode in one form and not in another.

    I think FCC literally equates to "FIFA Catalogue Coins", and they are wager-able. I don't think the term "coins" is the distinction here.

    It was just an example. The point stands that what you can and can't allow kids to do/see on a video game is balls deep in legislation.

    I totally agree, but my argument here is that the fundamental aspects of XP, FCC, and FUT coins are all incredibly similar. At their core, they really are 3 meaningless virtual currencies with 3 meaningless names, all with zero real-world value. They can be moved, deleted, created and exchanged within the regulations that EA sets (so long as they're not transferred for real-world currencies).

    I think the reason "Rival Match" wagers exist in H2H and not in FUT is because different teams of people work on each game mode, and there are often interesting features that make it in one and not the other. My understanding is that if XP/FCC wagers are allowed, FUT coin wagers are equally allowed.

    Could well be.

    You'd hope that even EA could have some form of knowledge/information sharing between departments but then again.....

    It would surprise me to learn that they were able to implement it and chose not to. Then again perhaps it's just down to demographic, and it's a conscious decision to not draw attention to a 'gamble' mode given that the vast majority of FUT players are likely to be not of legal gambling age.

    I imagine the average age of H2H players is higher.
  • UpstartCaesar
    3172 posts National Call-Up
    Pretty sure ea have given a monetary value when they've done coin giveaways before
  • RandomLhama83
    10098 posts Has That Special Something
    it would be exploited for coin selling /thread
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