ELO details discovered at r/fifa

1
AbuNegus
1229 posts Professional
https://www.reddit.com/r/FIFA/comments/4sh9a7/fifa_elo_rating_huge_discovery_explained/

Another aspect of the game that should have been transparant, now found out through detective work (again). So stock up on those low rated bronzes, bronze benching works.

Comments

  • Adrian095
    34071 posts National Team Captain
    This transparency ❤️❤️❤️❤️ needs to stop if your are a higher rank you should get higher rewards. If you try to bronze bench and get lower points and stay at a lower level you get no/lower rewards. DONE
  • COACH
    20494 posts Club Captain
    @Reece Tha BEAST

    I saw you post some points in the reddit thread. So you feel like is legit.
  • Boabdust
    5024 posts Big Money Move
    What's this?
  • AbuNegus
    1229 posts Professional
    Boabdust wrote: »
    What's this?

    tl;dr
    it was found out that everyone has a skill level assigned to them and you are matched up with other players based on that skill level + your squad rating. so bronze benching works after all.
  • Reece Tha BEAST
    17022 posts World Class
    COACH wrote: »
    @Reece Tha BEAST

    I saw you post some points in the reddit thread. So you feel like is legit.

    yeah @COACH ELO is real. It works exactly the way I expected it to as well. Madden uses this exact same model. Except in Madden's case, the players get to see all of this.
  • ALIST4R
    3874 posts National Call-Up
    Crazy that after all this time everyone's assumptions were correct. Threads were closed talking about it and told all that we believed, didn't happen. Now to be honest, I don't mind the system. Playing people of your own skill level is fun and keeps it consistent and then getting bumped up into the next "skill level" makes it a challenge to hopefully make you better but that's not where I think this game is in trouble.

    It's when we get to consistent lag and players feeling sluggish, never making runs and the inconsistency of the online play in FUT. I wouldn't mind losing 5 games in a row where I put up a fight and the game feels great every time. But losing games where the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ keeps hitting the fan and I feel like I'm playing with complete idiots is what's frustrating.

    I'm just happy people are investigating and working their ❤️❤️❤️❤️ off to prove EA has been ❤️❤️❤️❤️ us over for a good time now.
  • LoboNobo
    6460 posts Big Money Move
    I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. Letting everybody know how exactly the ELO system works would lead to everybody doing the bronze bench.
  • mjustic
    1318 posts Professional
    edited July 2016
    So if I understood correctly, you get 'points' rewarded after each game which either increase or decrease your skill level. Up the level you go, here come the tougher opponents, here comes the losing streak. You get down the skill level again, you're 'playing good' again, or you just think you do, because you get easier matches again. That pretty much explains FUT online seasons.
  • ZebidyAndIrony
    1391 posts Professional
    imo the elo system is not transparent and what ea say and do are two different things.

    what do they use to determine a figure?

    the actual rating fo the side (not the star rating)?
    your skill level?
    your connection test (even though as its done on the server its completely irrelevant...it needs to be done from player to player)
    also does it change in game...yes imo

    many many times i go a goal up and my opponent becomes more agile...a sure sign...either that or i was host before and it switched (i doubt that unless they hide who is host by not making it obvious and switching it from game to game between home and away side which is very possible)

    key bit for me in all this is the connections though.
    i seemed to always be disadvantaged because my isp had and still does ocasionally have packet loss on upload data i send when testing icmp and udp.
    thats why the connection test needs to be done between the two players.
    they need to devise a system in the game which can do this.

    some may have probibitive router setups but they should be forced to open up certain things.

    the nat issue...well dont see and easy way around that one.not just yet anyway.
    thats more complex as there are diferent codings being used out there by many different routers.
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
  • DunB
    863 posts Semi-Pro
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
    But this would explain why I am struggling hard with a 83-84 rated team against lower rated teams and that my 78 rated non-rares do not loose much against full TOTS teams!
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
    But this would explain why I am struggling hard with a 83-84 rated team against lower rated teams and that my 78 rated non-rares do not loose much against full TOTS teams!

    Again, didn't read the whole thing but I didn't see how your team rating affect your matchmaking. From the images I saw it seems the difference is marginal. It looks like it sometimes will help you and sometimes it won't.
  • DunB
    863 posts Semi-Pro
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
    But this would explain why I am struggling hard with a 83-84 rated team against lower rated teams and that my 78 rated non-rares do not loose much against full TOTS teams!

    Again, didn't read the whole thing but I didn't see how your team rating affect your matchmaking. From the images I saw it seems the difference is marginal. It looks like it sometimes will help you and sometimes it won't.
    Yes, but that is exactly why one would have winning streaks and losing streaks. While the difference is marginal, it takes a few games to go up or down again.

    And I didn't say it works all the time, but I do have matches where my 78 rated non-rares are flying all over the field being much better players than my opponents' TOTS team.
  • Orison
    54898 posts Ballon d'Or Winner
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
    But this would explain why I am struggling hard with a 83-84 rated team against lower rated teams and that my 78 rated non-rares do not loose much against full TOTS teams!

    Again, didn't read the whole thing but I didn't see how your team rating affect your matchmaking. From the images I saw it seems the difference is marginal. It looks like it sometimes will help you and sometimes it won't.
    Yes, but that is exactly why one would have winning streaks and losing streaks. While the difference is marginal, it takes a few games to go up or down again.

    And I didn't say it works all the time, but I do have matches where my 78 rated non-rares are flying all over the field being much better players than my opponents' TOTS team.

    What has this to do with matchmaking?
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    DunB wrote: »
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    Didn't read the whole thing as it's long and reddit confuses me, but to me it doesn't seem that bronze benching makes your games any easier. You're still playing players at the same level as you, but perhaps you get more points if you use a lower rated team. It may help you to a certain point, but eventually you'll play players who are better than you and lose, no matter how many 44 rated bronzes you put on your bench

    In any case, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge.
    But this would explain why I am struggling hard with a 83-84 rated team against lower rated teams and that my 78 rated non-rares do not loose much against full TOTS teams!

    Again, didn't read the whole thing but I didn't see how your team rating affect your matchmaking. From the images I saw it seems the difference is marginal. It looks like it sometimes will help you and sometimes it won't.
    Yes, but that is exactly why one would have winning streaks and losing streaks. While the difference is marginal, it takes a few games to go up or down again.

    And I didn't say it works all the time, but I do have matches where my 78 rated non-rares are flying all over the field being much better players than my opponents' TOTS team.

    Wasn't it common knowledge that these streaks occure because of ELO and facing better oponnents?
  • Xaviesta
    386 posts Sunday League Hero
    I fail to see the point of having a skill based matchmaking system when the game is broken at its core. Random OGs, super GKs, Auto interceptions,Auto tackles, Random pass direction, player switching. The whole system is flawed before you even start thinking about it.

    I don't care that they tried to hide it. I just care that such a system has no place in Fifa when fifa isn't skill based to begin with.
  • RadioShaq
    15973 posts Moderator
    I think dunb is saying it affects how his players play in game not matchmaking. Its common knowledge that it affects matchmaking but not in game performance.
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    RadioShaq wrote: »
    I think dunb is saying it affects how his players play in game not matchmaking. Its common knowledge that it affects matchmaking but not in game performance.

    Does it say anywhere that in-game performance is affected by ELO?
  • RadioShaq
    15973 posts Moderator
    I don't think so in that article. I thought it confirmed it worked like we all thought it worked thats why his post is confusing.
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    RadioShaq wrote: »
    I don't think so in that article. I thought it confirmed it worked like we all thought it worked thats why his post is confusing.

    Yeah that's what I thought, wanted to make sure
  • RadioShaq
    15973 posts Moderator
    Rob even did a poll asking if the community wanted it to be hidden or revealed. Almost all the votes were keep it hidden. I dunno why everyone is surprised when they listened to the community.
  • the_febo
    838 posts Semi-Pro
    edited July 2016
    Probably there are some Players in Division 4/5 which are way better then Players in Division1/2 because the ELO. This is so ❤️❤️❤️❤️ and we know not the factors for the ELO.
  • Rumplefish
    18748 posts World Class
    the_febo wrote: »
    Probably there are some Players in Division 4/5 which are way better then Players in Division1/2 because the ELO. This is so ❤️❤️❤️❤️ and we know not the factors for the ELO.
    Unless these people deliberately relegated or don't play, you're probably wrong
  • DunB
    863 posts Semi-Pro
    RadioShaq wrote: »
    I think dunb is saying it affects how his players play in game not matchmaking. Its common knowledge that it affects matchmaking but not in game performance.
    Well, sort of: I am wondering if it has anything to do with it. When you think of it: when your teamrating (low rated, bronch bench etc.) affects matchmaking then it's logical that when decent players having a 'bad' team have an advantage against bad players having a good team.

    And that would explain why it looks like my 78 rated non-rares play better than the full TOTS from my opponent.
  • Libguy
    5318 posts Big Money Move
    Wait, if you bronze bench and beat higher rated teams, then ELO says "Hey, we got a badass here, let's find him some tougher opponents." If you have a high rated team and lose to lower rated teams, then ELO says "Maybe you're not ready for this yet." So how is bronze benching helpful?

    And that's assuming star rating matters in Ultimate Team. I suspect it's probably just for Seasons, where it would make sense that somebody who uses a 3-star team and beats 5-star teams should face tougher opponents.
  • the_febo
    838 posts Semi-Pro
    Rumplefish wrote: »
    the_febo wrote: »
    Probably there are some Players in Division 4/5 which are way better then Players in Division1/2 because the ELO. This is so ❤️❤️❤️❤️ and we know not the factors for the ELO.
    Unless these people deliberately relegated or don't play, you're probably wrong

    If Factors like Number of Games, Found Date or EAFSC Level influence the ELO-Rating I'm right. And I think this is the case.
    In my opion ELO is only to help the new Fifa Players reach the first division for a short time.
    That is the reason why so many Players gets multiple relegated at one timepoint.
  • Whoman
    5981 posts Big Money Move
    Libguy wrote: »
    Wait, if you bronze bench and beat higher rated teams, then ELO says "Hey, we got a badass here, let's find him some tougher opponents." If you have a high rated team and lose to lower rated teams, then ELO says "Maybe you're not ready for this yet." So how is bronze benching helpful?

    And that's assuming star rating matters in Ultimate Team. I suspect it's probably just for Seasons, where it would make sense that somebody who uses a 3-star team and beats 5-star teams should face tougher opponents.

    Finally someone who gets it. Reading comprehension and attention span on this sort of topic is always hilariously low.

    I also fail to see how matchmaking based on skill is any issue at all.
  • Xaviesta
    386 posts Sunday League Hero
    Whoman wrote: »
    Libguy wrote: »
    Wait, if you bronze bench and beat higher rated teams, then ELO says "Hey, we got a badass here, let's find him some tougher opponents." If you have a high rated team and lose to lower rated teams, then ELO says "Maybe you're not ready for this yet." So how is bronze benching helpful?

    And that's assuming star rating matters in Ultimate Team. I suspect it's probably just for Seasons, where it would make sense that somebody who uses a 3-star team and beats 5-star teams should face tougher opponents.

    Finally someone who gets it. Reading comprehension and attention span on this sort of topic is always hilariously low.

    I also fail to see how matchmaking based on skill is any issue at all.
    At what point does fifa take skill? I'm not great at this game but I'm still in Div 1. and as I've written above there are too many random AI influences that completely strips the " skill " away.

  • RadioShaq
    15973 posts Moderator
    People want easy games not similar skill matchups its always been that way in fifa.
  • Reece Tha BEAST
    17022 posts World Class
    Libguy wrote: »
    Wait, if you bronze bench and beat higher rated teams, then ELO says "Hey, we got a badass here, let's find him some tougher opponents." If you have a high rated team and lose to lower rated teams, then ELO says "Maybe you're not ready for this yet." So how is bronze benching helpful?

    And that's assuming star rating matters in Ultimate Team. I suspect it's probably just for Seasons, where it would make sense that somebody who uses a 3-star team and beats 5-star teams should face tougher opponents.

    this
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