Chelsea Football Club

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  • Monkey
    8341 posts League Winner
    Christ alive that post
  • Samuel
    319 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited April 2015
    First I'm going to taper this by saying I don't rate Zidane that highly. Most people on the old Real Football section will know this. He was an outstanding player and fantastic on the eye but he was a big game bottler.

    You couldn't be further from the truth. Forty-two years after Puskas had produced possibly Madrid's greatest - and, in truth, football's history - individual performance in Hampden Park, Zidane rose to meet that level, and it's viable to suggest he surpassed it, in the very same stadium. His volley was of the highest possible quality and on the greatest possible stage. It was a perfect example of transcendental ability, which was accustomed to his success.

    The curiosity you pose of Zidane’s career is bizarre in that his quality still seemed to lack that kind of confirmation. He has somewhat universally been branded as the greatest footballer of all time - particularly on the international stage. Sure, he never quite consumed the mentality that saw other great players dominate on a consistent basis. In truth, he had a temper we all saw in the 2006 World Cup final and a series of other red cards. But the fact that they were isolated instances is also representative of his career positively on a large scale. However, it was in the biggest of games, if you will, that he brought out his cool, controlling presence aside from that moment of madness against Italy. Astutely, Rob Smyth described him as a "cerebral genius" and a "avant-garde footballer". And, along the same lines, Alex Ferguson once said that Zidane "didn't hurt teams" - which I believe relates to your interpretation that he's thought of too highly. While those views would appear to be criticisms at first, it was more so a reference to the fact that Zidane would tend to withdraw and dictate teams rather than decide them. As Thierry Henry said, “he is the guy we can always count on, the one who really takes control." That particular trait of his was explosive in the greatest games of his career. Zidane saved the most decisive moments for the most demanding occasions: the 1998 World Cup final where he lead France to the title; single-handedly ripping apart the second-best Selecao side ever, the entirety of Euro 2000 (where, once again, he was voted as the best player), the last couple minutes of France's Euro 2004 group game with England and the knock-out rounds of the 2006 World Cup.

    In that, Zidane was principally the ultimate big-game player.
    And now that Chelsea have Costa and Fabregas Hazard has not taken over playmaking mantel either so comparing him to Zidane is **** stupid.

    Typical of the modern game, the midfielders in a 433 are normally in a sort of triangle formation and not just left-central-right - generally in a flat 3, one further back as a "holding" midfielder with two going forward, or two holding players and one forward. To paraphrase, a playmaker can be defined as someone who sets up chances for his/her teammates. It is unnecessary for a playmaker to be defined to a certain position, nor in fact is there now an actual need for a 'true' creator. At Arsenal, for example, Özil is in large parts the out and out playmaker, regardless of whether he starts centrally or on the wing. Formations are fluid. You shouldn't think of formations as static, be all and end all, formulas to tactics, they're just a framework.

    You merely have to look back to 2010/11 at Pep Guardiola's all time European great Barcelona side. Here's an example of his side against Arsenal in the height of their Champions League glory:

    barca-arsenal-attempt-jazillion.gif

    There's not a "true" playmaker. In this squad, Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta form the '3' in midfield, and they are all playing centrally. Busquets taking the defensive duties, Iniesta taking the attacking duties and Xavi playing in between both in a more supportive role. Xavi is the closest to a playmaker as you're likely to get - it's not a coincidence he roams more than Iniesta who also plays central. He's constantly receiving the ball by every player on the pitch.

    Let's use Chelsea as another example. We could play Costa up front, Hazard and Willian on the wings with Matic, Ramires and Mikel in the middle. Or swap one of those players with Fabregas and there's your playmaker. And at Chelsea, the likes of Oscar and Willian are never going to attract defenders from Hazard the way Messi and Suarez can for Neymar for instance, and like you mention Hazard is the player in the Chelsea team that is relied on to make something happen in the build up so he's not always the one on the end of the attacking move.

    According to Squawka, Eden Hazard created 92 chances last season in the Premier League. Comparing this to Messi, who created 75 chances and Ronaldo who created 47 chances La Liga. You have to wonder, even without the cutting edge in front of goal, is he that far behind the world's best?
    So he wasn't "valuable" to Wolfsburg in the 1st 132 minutes he played for them either, and I'm sure if they'd followed Chelsea's moronic logic he'd have been frozen out and then shipped off.

    De Bruyne wasn't sold simply because he didn't track back. He was sold because of his workrate in training, which I think when over your head earlier. He's the type of player who needs to be on the pitch so he can develop, admittedly no fault of his own. His departure, however, developed after the game against Hull - he couldn't cope with the mentality of not starting every game, so he began to sulk which lead to him being sold.
    Post edited by Samuel on
  • WHOLE BUNCH OF NONSENSE

    There's absolutely nothing impressive about that post. It was just a load of vacuous guff. Lad is even claiming Hazard isn't a playmaker because his starting position was out wide as if Zidane didn't also play wide left for the majority of his Madrid career LOL.

    Quality over quantity breh. Stealing posts from other forums to sound intelligent is about as low as it gets.

  • ffs Martan
    9792 posts League Winner
    Samuel wrote: »
    First I'm going to taper this by saying I don't rate Zidane that highly. Most people on the old Real Football section will know this. He was an outstanding player and fantastic on the eye but he was a big game bottler.

    You couldn't be further from the truth. Forty-two years after Puskas had produced possibly Madrid's greatest - and, in truth, football's history - individual performance in Hampden Park, Zidane rose to meet that level, and it's viable to suggest he surpassed it, in the very same stadium. His volley was of the highest possible quality and on the greatest possible stage. It was a perfect example of transcendental ability, which was accustomed to his success.

    The curiosity you pose of Zidane’s career is bizarre in that his quality still seemed to lack that kind of confirmation. He has somewhat universally been branded as the greatest footballer of all time - particularly on the international stage. Sure, he never quite consumed the mentality that saw other great players dominate on a consistent basis. In truth, he had a temper we all saw in the 2006 World Cup final and a series of other red cards. But the fact that they were isolated instances is also representative of his career positively on a large scale. However, it was in the biggest of games, if you will, that he brought out his cool, controlling presence aside from that moment of madness against Italy. Astutely, Rob Smyth described him as a "cerebral genius" and a "avant-garde footballer". And, along the same lines, Alex Ferguson once said that Zidane "didn't hurt teams" - which I believe relates to your interpretation that he's thought of too highly. While those views would appear to be criticisms at first, it was more so a reference to the fact that Zidane would tend to withdraw and dictate teams rather than decide them. As Thierry Henry said, “he is the guy we can always count on, the one who really takes control." That particular trait of his was explosive in the greatest games of his career. Zidane saved the most decisive moments for the most demanding occasions: the 1998 World Cup final where he lead France to the title; single-handedly ripping apart the second-best Selecao side ever, the entirety of Euro 2000 (where, once again, he was voted as the best player), the last couple minutes of France's Euro 2004 group game with England and the knock-out rounds of the 2006 World Cup.
    a2b1095b85a700c2adafc4effa928c8d.png

    http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/12/

    @Samuel pls
  • Dan13
    4642 posts National Call-Up
    :joy: :joy: :joy:
  • Jenko
    13845 posts Has That Special Something
    Hahahahahaahahahhaha
  • That's excellent.
  • Bob Loblaw
    11247 posts Has That Special Something
    @Samuel RIP in pieces
  • D10S
    4500 posts National Call-Up
    @Wardhiigley have you seen this
  • Wardhiigley
    1974 posts Play-Off Hero
    @D10S, yes I have @Gil. Are you mad?
  • D10S
    4500 posts National Call-Up
    edited April 2015
    wait what

    edit: nvm i never saw Gil's post was confused
  • Andy
    7849 posts League Winner
    :joy: So done here :joy: :joy:
  • Wardhiigley
    1974 posts Play-Off Hero
    @D10S, I read that after you sourced it on reddit maybe close to a year ago? I think it was you at least, someone called cvela11.
  • Chelsea
    7243 posts Big Money Move
    edited April 2015
    Just been posted dw.
  • D10S
    4500 posts National Call-Up
    yeah i was linked to that by someone else a long time ago, shame it's done

    @Andy
  • Wardhiigley
    1974 posts Play-Off Hero
    edited April 2015
    @D10S I think I read when you 1st posted a source from it, because I remember seeing you post that maybe 8-9 months ago and that's dated June so was probably only a little while after you read it.

    Yeah he was really doing some good translation work. Only other stuff I found about the Juventus team was two brief Italian blogs.
  • Samuel
    319 posts Sunday League Hero
    160x160x279-new-moon-with-face.png.pagespeed.ic.ytbDyRohbU.jpg
  • ffs Martan
    9792 posts League Winner
    look at me I was winding you up guys honest
  • D10S
    4500 posts National Call-Up
    W6ndllW.jpg
  • ffs Martan
    9792 posts League Winner
    D10S wrote: »
    W6ndllW.jpg
    @Andy
  • Andy
    7849 posts League Winner
    lol **** off @ffs Martan
  • Samuel
    319 posts Sunday League Hero
    edited April 2015
    100 to 0 like when mourinho face planted to floor
  • Tamerlane
    5281 posts Big Money Move
    Was that all Ward's work or did Jay contribute?
  • D10S
    4500 posts National Call-Up
    my work
  • Jaymizzo
    2345 posts Fans' Favourite
    Tamerlane wrote: »
    Was that all Ward's work or did Jay contribute?
    I think Samuel or Gil (whoever decided to challenge Ward) orchestrated their own demise. Poor lads wont be missed.
  • Dribbly
    9114 posts League Winner
    Apparently we are looking at signing Japanese international striker Yoshinori Muto according to Duncan Castle. PR stunt I ****
    JDYx wrote: »
    I heard he was the Japanese Zidane.
  • Samuel
    319 posts Sunday League Hero
    He couldn't be, he doesn't show up in the J-League.
  • SchuperSpe
    12 posts Ball Boy
    TOTS Chelsea there will be seven people were selected,In FIFA Hazard,Costa,Azp,Terry
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