[Discussion] - FIFA Forum Rules

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EA_Andy
530 posts EA Community Manager
We have recently announced some updated FIFA Forum guidelines and rules.

Please use this thread as a place to discuss them and give us any feedback on anything that might need to be changed.

Comments

  • Retro_G
    12413 posts Has That Special Something
    Would be a good idea to implement an ignore/mute button Andy, so you don't get antagonised.
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    There's a lot of vague and grey area in some of those rules. There have been points where certain moderators have given out bans and warnings essentially going on rampage and eventually had them all reversed after huge arguments between some of the staff and forumers.

    As it is these rules give license for just banning people if there was a repeat of this to happen, with even fewer avenues of trying to remedy the situation.




    Furthermore, with the "Take a break, go for a walk, have a snack, play some games – it’s not a big deal. We’re not mad at you; you just need a break.

    Do not complain about your ban or ask your friends to post about it on the forums for you. That could get your ban extended and may even get your friends in trouble, too."

    Most of the times when people have been asking about bans its because the communication has been borderline pathetic about what is actually happening, is there anything being changed to actually change routes of communication for banned members or are you just putting the kibosh on people asking about bans without opening any other methods of trying to sort things out?

    Again, there have been incidents in the past where without forumers essentially going in to bat for people who were banned those bans would never have been reversed.


    Funnily enough one of those people who were victims of what I spoke about above was @jordansky1111 who is now a mod himself.
  • RadioShaq
    10262 posts Moderator
    One of them says keep it game related. Gd has never allowed off topic but Xbox and ps has. Will this be changing to no off topic in any section?
  • fluffymnuffy
    7534 posts League Winner
    Pretty much what I expected, you guys are useless after all
  • JohnDoe
    5935 posts Big Money Move
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and you're trying way too hard to fix it, IMO.
  • fluffymnuffy
    7534 posts League Winner
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and you're trying way too hard to fix it, IMO.
    Pretty much what I expected, you guys are useless after all

    We don't need the forums fixed, we need the game fixed
  • Jake
    13922 posts Has That Special Something
    All my opinion, feel free to disagree.


    1.
    )(don't)use personal photos

    Very vague. Can I not use a picture of my dog as an avatar? What constitutes a "personal photo"?

    2.
    Be a troll. Trolling is deliberately posting sarcastic, off topic, or rude things to start a fight.
    Don't think this an action that deserves a "ban straight away" I think a warning for a first offence is more than fair. Also some topics created are so ridiculous they deserve an equally ridiculous response.

    3.
    Chat about the way we moderate the forums. Our moderators are here to keep this place happy and helpful for everyone. Discussing the way they do things is not okay.

    Why are moderators and staff etc exempt from criticism on how things are run? If the community aren't allowed to point out moderation actions that are hurting the forum then the mistake will continue to be made. I don't think suppressing the voice of the community that truly make this forum what it is, is a good idea.

    4.
    Keep it game-related. We’re not here to debate politics or religion, so keep the conversation about our games.

    Again this is another vague point. Does this mean all non-game discussion is not allowed? If that is the case the forum will get very stale, very quickly. (Btw I agree that political and religious discussion go nowhere)

    5.
    Use repeated symbols, multiple exclamation marks, or multiple question marks. Again, nobody likes being YELLED AT!!
    I can understand someone using 10+ punctuation marks is stupid but an extra question mark or two doesn't really cause issue in my opinion and can be helpful to emphasise feelings on a topic.

    6.
    Curse or swear. Don’t try to get away with it by using symbols in place of letters, too. We all k*** what you’re trying to s**.

    If you're old enough to know what swear words mean with symbols in place of letters then it shouldn't affect or offend you. Please don't child-proof a 13+ forum. Also some words are not blocked by the swear filter which leads to a debate whether a word is allowed to be posted or not.

    7.
    Posting copyrighted material. This includes images as well as text from game guides. If you don’t own it, don’t post it.

    This encourages users not to use images/text to enhance the quality of the post just in case the content they use is copyrighted. People have used images etc they don't own for 3 iterations of the EA forums, why is this a problem now?

    8.
    Do not complain about your ban or ask your friends to post about it on the forums for you. That could get your ban extended and may even get your friends in trouble, too.


    I see no reason as to why a friend cannot private message a moderator/staff member etc asking what the reasons for the ban were. You could be wrongly banned but not even know that is the case as you don't know what post caused action to be taken.




    Also I feel like some of the language used in these rules are just blatantly patronising, for example:
    It’s not cool to lie
    Take a break, go for a walk, have a snack, play some games – it’s not a big deal. We’re not mad at you; you just need a break.
    You can:

    include a cool picture



    Thanks for reading
  • fluffymnuffy
    7534 posts League Winner
    Jake wrote: »
    All my opinion, feel free to disagree.


    1.
    )(don't)use personal photos

    Very vague. Can I not use a picture of my dog as an avatar? What constitutes a "personal photo"?

    2.
    Be a troll. Trolling is deliberately posting sarcastic, off topic, or rude things to start a fight.
    Don't think this an action that deserves a "ban straight away" I think a warning for a first offence is more than fair. Also some topics created are so ridiculous they deserve an equally ridiculous response.

    3.
    Chat about the way we moderate the forums. Our moderators are here to keep this place happy and helpful for everyone. Discussing the way they do things is not okay.

    Why are moderators and staff etc exempt from criticism on how things are run? If the community aren't allowed to point out moderation actions that are hurting the forum then the mistake will continue to be made. I don't think suppressing the voice of the community that truly make this forum what it is, is a good idea.

    4.
    Keep it game-related. We’re not here to debate politics or religion, so keep the conversation about our games.

    Again this is another vague point. Does this mean all non-game discussion is not allowed? If that is the case the forum will get very stale, very quickly. (Btw I agree that political and religious discussion go nowhere)

    5.
    Use repeated symbols, multiple exclamation marks, or multiple question marks. Again, nobody likes being YELLED AT!!
    I can understand someone using 10+ punctuation marks is stupid but an extra question mark or two doesn't really cause issue in my opinion and can be helpful to emphasise feelings on a topic.

    6.
    Curse or swear. Don’t try to get away with it by using symbols in place of letters, too. We all k*** what you’re trying to s**.

    If you're old enough to know what swear words mean with symbols in place of letters then it shouldn't affect or offend you. Please don't child-proof a 13+ forum. Also some words are not blocked by the swear filter which leads to a debate whether a word is allowed to be posted or not.

    7.
    Posting copyrighted material. This includes images as well as text from game guides. If you don’t own it, don’t post it.

    This encourages users not to use images/text to enhance the quality of the post just in case the content they use is copyrighted. People have used images etc they don't own for 3 iterations of the EA forums, why is this a problem now?

    8.
    Do not complain about your ban or ask your friends to post about it on the forums for you. That could get your ban extended and may even get your friends in trouble, too.


    I see no reason as to why a friend cannot private message a moderator/staff member etc asking what the reasons for the ban were. You could be wrongly banned but not even know that is the case as you don't know what post caused action to be taken.




    Also I feel like some of the language used in these rules are just blatantly patronising, for example:
    It’s not cool to lie
    Take a break, go for a walk, have a snack, play some games – it’s not a big deal. We’re not mad at you; you just need a break.
    You can:

    include a cool picture



    Thanks for reading

    Number 3 shows how quickly the forums have changed into North Korea
  • Retro_G
    12413 posts Has That Special Something
    edited July 17
    Edit: Never mind, seen the thread in XBCC about signature's.
    Post edited by Retro_G on
  • JohnDoe
    5935 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 17
    @Jake made a few great points.
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    Jake wrote: »
    A
    3.
    Chat about the way we moderate the forums. Our moderators are here to keep this place happy and helpful for everyone. Discussing the way they do things is not okay.

    Why are moderators and staff etc exempt from criticism on how things are run? If the community aren't allowed to point out moderation actions that are hurting the forum then the mistake will continue to be made. I don't think suppressing the voice of the community that truly make this forum what it is, is a good idea.

    I'm not sure if the new guys are aware of the old moderating system, the jail system, the points sytem and why it was that they got criticised and changed , but not allowing criticism of moderation is absolutely bananas.

    If that never happened previously, we'd still have the points system, about 30 users would be banned from the day a moderator (who shall remain nameless so not to criticise him by name now and risk myself) went on rampage over what he arbitrarily decided constituted off topic in the transfer lounge (note, these were all overturned as a result of criticism of his moderation from users to the old community manager, Rob), and jordansky1111 wouldnt be a mod, and would in fact be part of the banned list.
  • JohnDoe
    5935 posts Big Money Move
    Bidwell wrote: »
    Jake wrote: »
    A
    3.
    Chat about the way we moderate the forums. Our moderators are here to keep this place happy and helpful for everyone. Discussing the way they do things is not okay.

    Why are moderators and staff etc exempt from criticism on how things are run? If the community aren't allowed to point out moderation actions that are hurting the forum then the mistake will continue to be made. I don't think suppressing the voice of the community that truly make this forum what it is, is a good idea.

    I'm not sure if the new guys are aware of the old moderating system, the jail system, the points sytem and why it was that they got criticised and changed , but not allowing criticism of moderation is absolutely bananas.

    If that never happened previously, we'd still have the points system, about 30 users would be banned from the day a moderator (who shall remain nameless so not to criticise him by name now and risk myself) went on rampage over what he arbitrarily decided constituted off topic in the transfer lounge (note, these were all overturned as a result of criticism of his moderation from users to the old community manager, Rob), and jordansky1111 wouldnt be a mod, and would in fact be part of the banned list.

    All in all, we didn't need new rules, there was no reason to do this.
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Bidwell wrote: »
    Jake wrote: »
    A
    3.
    Chat about the way we moderate the forums. Our moderators are here to keep this place happy and helpful for everyone. Discussing the way they do things is not okay.

    Why are moderators and staff etc exempt from criticism on how things are run? If the community aren't allowed to point out moderation actions that are hurting the forum then the mistake will continue to be made. I don't think suppressing the voice of the community that truly make this forum what it is, is a good idea.

    I'm not sure if the new guys are aware of the old moderating system, the jail system, the points sytem and why it was that they got criticised and changed , but not allowing criticism of moderation is absolutely bananas.

    If that never happened previously, we'd still have the points system, about 30 users would be banned from the day a moderator (who shall remain nameless so not to criticise him by name now and risk myself) went on rampage over what he arbitrarily decided constituted off topic in the transfer lounge (note, these were all overturned as a result of criticism of his moderation from users to the old community manager, Rob), and jordansky1111 wouldnt be a mod, and would in fact be part of the banned list.

    All in all, we didn't need new rules, there was no reason to do this.

    I'd tend to agree, but these are so broad and sweeping whilst at the same time remaining aggressively vague to the point where unless every post is completely on topic and devoid of any character you can find reason to punish them.

    For example the "trolling" rule, they count it as 'being sarcastic to try and start a fight.' If you made a point about some team making a bad transfer in the real football, would that count as trolling?


    For example, in a transfer thread
    "Chelsea putting in a bid for aguero, lets hope he can be as good as Torres." That's clearly sarcasm, but if someone took offence and engaged in an argument to that would you class it as trolling? No sane person would but you can lump it in under these vague umbrella terms and give an insta-ban for it.
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    I also echo pretty much everything @Jake has said.
  • Fifa_Hawk_85
    4772 posts National Call-Up
    Is this actually some sort of joke or is there really a new set of rules one being that you can't use more than one question mark??

    Very well said @Jake some very valid points.
  • WFCBagnall
    46609 posts FIFA Cover Star
    Brilliant post @Jake
  • Tornado31619
    4471 posts National Call-Up
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    @Jake made a few great points.

  • exzoo
    28759 posts Player of the Year
    Absolute joke, what a way to make an entrance.
    Well put @Jake
  • Dawud
    15052 posts World Class
    These rules are hardly different to the old ones, wouldn't worry too much about them
  • JohnDoe
    5935 posts Big Money Move
    Dawud wrote: »
    These rules are hardly different to the old ones, wouldn't worry too much about them

    They're already going around making changes and editing posts.
  • apfelmus_maCHer1
    37364 posts World Cup Winner
    WFCBagnall wrote: »
    Brilliant post @Jake

  • Jaxite
    22372 posts Club Captain
    Disgrace
  • MaddMike3711
    8715 posts League Winner
    EA_Andy wrote: »
    We have recently announced some updated FIFA Forum guidelines and rules.

    Please use this thread as a place to discuss them and give us any feedback on anything that might need to be changed.

    My Do's and Don'ts

    Do's

    • Change it back to the way it was, allow us to post OT topics in XCC.

    • Allow the community to moderate the community (a Community Manager like Rob is all we need), the mods on here otherwise do a fantastic job.

    • Allow us to use more than one punctuation mark, how does doing this "..." offend anyone or disrupt the forum?

    • Allow us to use copyrighted pictures, I'm sure 99% + of the people on here use one, there would be no forum left if everyone was banned for doing so.

    • Allow the odd topic of more adult things such as "Hey guys, I'm sitting on the beach having a beer!"
    "Oh nice, which brand is it?"
    Even children under the age of 13 are usually around their parents when they have a drink or a smoke and it's not illegal, so should be allowed for discussion.

    Don'ts

    • Don't patronize us by treating us like school children, some of us are fully grown adults and have probably been playing FIFA longer than some of the EA mods have been alive.

    • Don't go on a banning rampage and infract/suspend/ban regulars for minor offenses, it will only ruin the forums. A lot of people have known each other for years, and sometimes the discussions get carried away, but it's all in fun.

    • Don't be rude to Richard or Fab, we love them in XCC

    •Don't change our mods (as I mentioned earlier), Orange, Dan, Adamski, and the other mods are great! There's no need for anyone else to enforce the rules here.

    There are probably a lot more but those are just off the top of my head. :D
    Thanks and have a great evening!
  • VICTAAAA
    6344 posts Big Money Move
    edited July 18
    I came to this forum in 14 when EA messed up their transfer list and stayed as the forum was kind enough to help me with my questions. From then I've experienced fights, debates and a whole lot of laughs. I personally think all that stems from the freedom for people to be themselves and express their honest opinions.

    I find the new rules to be overreaching and restrictive. And overall, I feel some of the new rules are a character clause, if you act the way we want, you will be shown the door. I believe the long term affect of these new character rules will deteriorate the: originality, insightfulness and fun that is the FIFA forums.

    the other aspect of the new rules seems to be a degree of censorship. There are now rules, that seems to be enforced about what we can say or talk about in a particular forum. I a future where the threads and replies to be monotonous and one dimensional. It seems if there are differring options and it there's some passion backing it, the thread might get shut down. But most of all, I take offense to no longer allowing petitions and critiquing of Mods. We have people like Diggy getting banned for no reason and at least 2-3 threads a month of EA chat advisors sending people here as a source of assistance. Where are we to turn to for wrongful bans? As our main source of the chat and they send us to the forums? Petitioning "you guys" on the forums is about all some of us old-timers have to get wrongful terminations/ban overturned. As for talking about the Mods, I have the upmost love for the Dans ( @ORANGEeffect05 and @OoSUPERDANoO ) and respect for the rest of the guys in XBCC ( @DirtyDishFC @Nen @UM4R comes to mind) . They've done a wonderful job in all my years here but why are we to be censored if we feel like they've stepped out of line? I'm not saying we should abuse the Mods but the community should be able to voice thier opinions about who governs them, for accountabilities sake.

    I'm not asking for the Wild West where anything goes. I'm asking for enough leash/trust to the community to regulate themselves and trusting the Mods to continue to rein us back whenever we're out of line. Because if you start censoring how people can reply, you start shaping their attitudes and a forum without any debate or disagreements is not utopia but instead a totalitarianism.
  • Jwalls5096
    1005 posts Professional
    Nothing about duplicate thread spammers
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    Jwalls5096 wrote: »
    Nothing about duplicate thread spammers

    i guess they can just sweep that under spam.
  • Richehb1
    527 posts Sunday League Hero
    You know how we can't use more than one punctuation sign? Does that mean we are forbidden from using an ellipsis if we wish to use it?
  • EA_Andy
    530 posts EA Community Manager
    edited July 18
    Thanks for all the feedback, I'll try and get through most of it in this post.

    Talking about moderation on the forums - this isn't something that's going to change, we don't want it to happen as the discussion generally doesn't have a positive outcome, especially when the full story either isn't known or is told via Chinese whispers. Additionally if the person that has been moderated has been given a time out then it's not fair that they can't reply. If you feel something has been moderated incorrectly please feel free to send me a message.

    With the new system we have in place, any bans will be communicated via the warning system so you'll receive an email if you receive a ban. There's no need to have friends come and ask us because:

    1) We won't talk about bans unless it's the user in question
    2) You can go to lets_talk@ea.com if you feel the ban is incorrect

    Off-topic posts - nothing has changed here. The off-topic posts still need to abide by the rules but other than that if the moderators are happy to have off-topic posts in certain sections that won't change. I'm going to ask them all to create a sub-forum ruleset which says they're allowed if they haven't already just to clear things up.

    The multiple/repeated symbols is being taken a little bit too literally, and fair enough, it is written a bit like that but no, you aren't going to get a warning over putting ?? after a question. That's more to cover posts where people go really over the top with it and maybe we need to edit or give a minor warning.

    Non-game discussion is allowed in the off-topic forums of course but it needs to be appropriate for this forum still. If you're posting in another part of the forum it should be on-topic about our game (unless that sub-forum has rules that okay off-topic posts).

    "Chelsea putting in a bid for aguero, lets hope he can be as good as Torres." That's clearly sarcasm, but if someone took offence and engaged in an argument to that would you class it as trolling? - No.

    It's worth remembering as well that not everyone who visits the forum is a FIFA Forum veteran or a forum veteran in general. Don't use personal photos doesn't mean you can't post a picture of your dog but for the most part you're probably going to want to avoid using photos of yourself and family where possible to avoid anyone getting hold of it who you might not want to.

    As for images and profile pictures - we aren't going to suddenly start removing them all but if there's something we see that is copyrighted and absolutely needs to be taken off then this rule covers us for that eventuality.

    The new guidelines are not here to try and stop you from discussing some of the things you always have but we want to make sure that nothing inappropriate is left on the forums and in those cases it will be moderated if it doesn't fall in line with the rules. That doesn't mean we're going to start cracking down on every little thing but I'm sure most of you can appreciate there are things on the forum which don't belong and the moderators are here to make sure that happens in line with these rules.
  • Bidwell
    8351 posts League Winner
    The real issue I have with the changes is there's been a history of huge cockups happening on the moderation side of things, and it was only through talking through the forum that things got changed.

    I'm hesitant to believe you when you say
    If you feel something has been moderated incorrectly please feel free to send me a message.

    because everything you've written so far sounds like the shutters are coming down and there's less wiggle room for complaining and asking about things.

    If I think someone has gone too far, and again, this has happened on more than one occasion in the past, why would I feel I can message you at this point? You've already told me in this "rules" post that if i complain about any moderators or complain about anyones bans then that will be putting myself in the firing line to be punished.


    Furthermore, where you've given a clear "no" to whether that constitutes trolling, can you not appreciate how hopelessly vague and sweeping these rules are? There's no way anyone can really tell whether theyre actually breaking the rules or not, it just comes down to which moderator happens to see, what kind of mood theyre in, and whether they fancy arguing enough through the moderation process to get a punishment laid down (assuming the moderation process hasnt altered).
  • EA_Andy
    530 posts EA Community Manager
    edited July 18
    @Bidwell - I can't make you believe me so there's not really anything more I can say on that particular point, actions are better than words as they say.

    Messaging me about something you feel has been moderated incorrectly is a lot different than publicly discussing it on the forum - it's the latter that I'm talking about and it's a common rule for a forum.
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